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Fab stops sending you emails you don’t read, even when you don’t ask them to

172 pointsby maxmzd_about 12 years ago

20 comments

chris_jabout 12 years ago
I received a similar email a few months ago. I was rather annoyed to receive it, to be honest, because I <i>had</i> been reading the emails. Just with images disabled.
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betterunixabout 12 years ago
It sounds like the emails were mostly HTML mail that fetched external images. HTML mail is a terrible thing that should be stopped, and HTML mail that fetches anything external is a security problem. It's nice to know that these Fab people were thinking about their customers, but the bigger picture here is that HTML mail was being abused to violate those same customers' privacy. It may have been for a good reason, but it was still a bad thing to do and legitimizing the practice will make it easier to carry out attacks via email.<p>The solution to inbox clutter is filtering. If users are too lazy to make filters, then the problem is with the effort required to make filters.
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petercooperabout 12 years ago
I did something similar with my Ruby Weekly list (basically removed 1000 folks from a 18,000 list) and sent a message saying what I'd done and invited them to resubscribe if I'd got it wrong and.. I got quite a few nasty mails. People ranting that they read with images off or saying that I didn't appreciate their subscription if they didn't click on things, etc. Nonetheless, open rates did improve significantly.<p>Lesson learned.. if I do it again, I won't send the mail telling people I have ;-)
mpyneabout 12 years ago
I wonder how they track this? I haven't been able to attend any local Meetups for example (and sometimes just delete the email outright), but this is one of the few I want to keep receiving because, you know, someday I'll have time...
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WillyFabout 12 years ago
Fab uses Sailthru to deliver their e-mail. See here: <a href="https://www.sailthru.com/clients" rel="nofollow">https://www.sailthru.com/clients</a><p>I'm in the process of moving my e-mail to Sailthru. I'm really impressed by their capabilities, though the transition hasn't been quite as smooth as I would have liked. I'm finally starting to dive into doing stuff like this, and I'm really excited about using data to improve the experience from people who get my daily e-mails.<p>Not only can I stop bothering people who are no longer reading my e-mails, but I can also cut costs by removing users who aren't engaged. It's a win-win.
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zaidfabout 12 years ago
It isn't universally accepted that regular unread emails provide no value to the company or user.<p>There is a whole argument about how even if you don't open emails, just seeing the name of the company in your inbox increases recall value so tomorrow when you do have a need for a pair of shoes, you'll more likely check out the company that's been emailing you daily than a company you haven't heard about much.
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dminorabout 12 years ago
We've done this too, and the reason is this: dropping people who don't read your newsletter <i>increases</i> your open rate, and <i>decreases</i> your spam reports. This makes it less likely some large mail host will drop your newsletter entirely.<p>The reason you send an email is for people who don't turn on images or click on links, but still want your newsletter.
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hissworksabout 12 years ago
Fab is notoriously bad about email delivery. It's become a joke between my girlfriend and I that when one of our phone buzzes it "must be Fab again". I can't recall how I ended up on their lists but I believe it was due to some competition.
estsauverabout 12 years ago
This actually seems like a great idea. I remember reading that your spam score is in part based on email open rates, by dumping users who have no chance of opening you decrease your likelihood of getting blocked for a campaign.<p>It also has the nice benefit of publicity and reduced mailchimp/other provider fees.<p>On second thought, I'm not sure if any of these would offset the cost per acquisition of even a few users who were accidentally "let go" by this tactic. I hope fab posts some statistics at some point.
mistermcgruffabout 12 years ago
The crappy thing is that some clients (Apple Mail) download images even if you haven't opened the email, so Fab would <i>think</i> you're opening all the sends. But if you moved over to a better sign of engagement like clicking on an encoded URL, then you might be throttling sends to some folks who are actually opening.<p>I wonder where Fab landed in this discussion.
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cardineabout 12 years ago
At first I thought this was for a startup that offers this service. I don't know if I'd use it, but it seems like a pretty cool offering someone could easily code up - have it detect what types of emails you don't read and then automatically send those emails into another folder.
jsiegzabout 12 years ago
Most major daily e-mail sites do this, they just don't always send an additional e-mail to let the customer know that they do it.<p>Basically, it's best practice to auto-unsubscribe users who never open their e-mails to reduce risk of being marked as spam after a while.
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yRetsyMabout 12 years ago
I would love it if this option was offered by the providers such as Mailchimp and Campaign Monitor et all. They have the opportunity to improve their industry and in turn improve clients business.<p>The tracking is already happening. Put it to good use!
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signed0about 12 years ago
By tracking whether or not you read an email via a tracking image I imagine...
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tommccabeabout 12 years ago
This isn't just good will towards the consumer; retailers are paying per e-mail that is sent out, so it is good practice to prune the list of addresses that haven't opened e-mails in a while.
aviswanathanabout 12 years ago
The issue for me is that every unread email is a to-do item for me. So I often just click on an unread email without reading it just to mark it read.
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tomwalshamabout 12 years ago
This is definitely good email sender behaviour, but I would hesitate to purely put this down to the altruistic notion of 'keeping your inbox tidy' - Inbox Zero is a problem fairly isolated to the Newserati and similar thin slices of population.<p>Fact is, Email Deliverability is increasingly engagement-driven these days, especially with the major ISPs, and additionally sending email costs money.<p>--<p>At its most basic level, a sender's 'spamminess' is determined by percentage of spam reports against overall deliveries from that IP. Levels over 1% put your reputation in the 'severe' category, and risk lack of inbox delivery, blacklists and more. Having more engaged users leads to a better ratio - for this reason alone keeping your recipients 'fresh' is valuable.<p>Additionally, another common pattern of email (or more correctly a sender:template combination) falling into the 'spam' category for an ISP is to see a few percentage points in drop, followed by a complete /dev/null-ing. When the initial drop happens, whether or not your recipients correct that as a false-positive will determine whether you get the Full Monty. Naturally therefore removing the least engaged users has a significant beneficial effect on overall deliverability.<p>These days though, it's getting more complex, nuanced and ultimately more individual.<p>Gmail moved some time back from a centralized concept of 'spam' to a much more personal view by using your positive and negative engagement signals: opens, clicks, replies, 'delete without reading','report spam' etc. They explicitly modify the visibility of email in your personal inbox through the 'important' flag (<a href="http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&#38;answer=186543" rel="nofollow">http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?hl=en&#38;answe...</a>), but there is good evidence that negative engagement can carry an email all the way to the spam box for a given user and consequently affect the overall deliverability.<p>This has a strong benefit for Gmail in that they become much harder to 'game' - something Google Search team also has plenty of experience in avoiding. They essentially eschew the classic SMTP 5xx return codes for 'Accept All, Ask Questions Later' in all but the most egregious cases, and provide little to no feedback for senders to troubleshoot delivery problems on the basis that if your users want your mail, it would be getting through.<p>--<p>The second primary motivator here (still with me?) is that sending email also has a non-zero cost which is almost entirely driven by sheer subscriber count and delivery attempts.<p>Consider a typical mass-marketing email with a 10-15% open rate, delivered multiple times a month. Even assuming a varied engagement profile that mailer is engaging with at most 50% of their list over the month. A simple list of 1MM recipients would incur an increased cost of a couple of thousand dollars a month to send into the vacuum of disinterest.<p>There is, in certain circumstances, a benefit to be gained from 'eyeballs on subjects' for brand awareness, but that metric is near impossible to track, and as mentioned above unopened emails can be deleterious to your overall delivery to the more engaged segments.<p>For both the reasons highlighted above, mass-market email has been using the 're-engagement' method (breathlessly described in the OP as a customer-driven action), to keep their lists fresh and costs down.<p>I do applaud the application of metrics to provide intelligent subscription management. At PostageApp we see the best delivery rates come from our clients who take active interest in the concept of humans at the end of the SMTP pipe. The growing provision of engagement data through APIs is helping drive solutions like FAB's, and the end result is a better experience for the user. That said, this particular innovation came not from the consumer-friendly high visibility consumer and SaaS markets, but has been around for many years in the risk-heavy line treading bulk marketing industry.
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gaddersabout 12 years ago
They just spam the living shit out of your facebook page instead in my experience.
SODanielabout 12 years ago
Are you sure? I am getting AT LEAST one email a day from them and never read them.
dutchbritabout 12 years ago
Should save them a lot of money removing the non active subscribers :)