Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970)

Posted last time[1] one of these stories came around, comment applicable here:<p>As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw away account.<p>With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection bias. Most of them came to the US as refugees who were recognized by the US State Department as being discriminated against for being Jewish in USSR/Russia. Secondly they have interest in maintaining the story anti-seminitism because it validates their narrative and could potentially help their relatives immigrate to the US.<p>Additionally many stories of anti-semitism that I heard were something a non-jew would experience as well but attributed to anti-semitism. As a personal example, I was at first denied admission to a specialized school in very late Soviet period. They eventually let me in because my mother found out that I had the highest score on the entrance exam of any one. Their excuse was that they had to let the kids who were in the paid summer program at the school first and now the class was full. A Jewish kid's parents would have been told they already have too many Jews in the advanced program. Both cases are just the admissions persons asking for a bribe.<p>[1] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047</a>

What's interesting is that according to several narratives from those close to the central committee under Stalin, anti-semitic policies in the Soviet Union started from geo-political maneuvering rather than any inherent personal sense of racism.<p>Sudoplatov, an NKVD agent who worked for Beria, wrote in his memoirs that the original Soviet post-war plans were actually to <i>establish a Jewish republic in the Crimea</i>, with the hope that they would be able to use it in order to get money for Soviet post-war reconstruction from Jewish organizations around the world.<p>When they failed to gain world traction with the idea, and were cut off from British/American planning of the alternative (Palestine), Stalin moved to a policy of anti-Semitism (the "Doctor's Plot" and a campaign against "Rootless Cosmopolitanism") so that the <i>Arab</i> world would turn to him instead (in their dissatisfaction with the plans for Israel).<p>One passage from Sudoplatov's memoirs:<p>"Stalin and his close aides were interested in the Jewish issue mainly to exploit it politically, either for use in a power struggle or for consolidating their power. That's how the flirtation with anti-Semitism started in high party echelons...Stalin's efforts after the war were focused on extending Soviet hegemony, first over the countries of Eastern Europe bordering the Soviet Union and then everywhere he was in competition with British interests. He foresaw that the Arab states would turn to the Soviet Union when they were frustrated by British and American support for Israel. The Arabs would appreciate the anti-Zionist trends in Soviet foreign policy...I was told by Vetrov, Molotov's Assistant, what Stalin said: 'Let's agree to the establishment of Israel. This will be a pain in the ass for the Arab states and will make them turn their backs on the British. In the long run it will totally undermine British influence in Egypt, Syria, Turkey, and Iraq.'"

Thanks for posting. I just sent this to my parents who were also in the Soviet Union until we all emigrated to the US.<p>Here's the response from my mom:<p>Yes, it's typical. The only thing which surprises me that the dad's dad insisted on military in 1970 - there was an antisemitic campaign in military in 1961 and grandfather could not miss it. Usually families knew which colleges accept Jewish kids, which did not and usually there was a "plan B". There was a category of "top" colleges which ran exams in July, while all others ran exams in August, like this guy who failed in top choice in July still had option to take exams in August (like my mom who failed with Institute of mechanics and Optics in July applied for Pedagogical Institute in August, or Alik [her uncle] who was not admitted in Moscow university applied in Kharkov in August etc.) And some people who were fighting actually succeeded (like Alena [her aunt] whom they gave either 4 or 3 in math said she knows well enough to get 5, so the examiner said, "I will have to call a head of the commission", Alena said, "So call him." And started all over again. Vitya, my cousin, had the same experience: they told him his solution is wrong, he gave them another one, and one more, and they also called for the head of admissions, and she showed him the right solution - then he showed her his first solution, etc. So it's a little weird that for this family this all sounded as a surprise. It was every family experience ;-( and one of the reasons of emigration (same situation with jobs.)

Some basic facts about college admission in the United States:<p>1) Most colleges admit large numbers of students who are officially reported as "race/ethnicity unknown."<p>2) The definition of "race" categories in current United States regulations is arbitrary, acknowledged by the Census Bureau to be unscientific, does not match categories used in any other country, and has changed several times in my lifetime.<p>3) "Jewish" has never been an officially regarded category in the United States for tracking data on the issue of college admission, but Jews once faced considerable barriers getting into many colleges.<p>4) The subset of United States high school students who are college-ready by what courses they have completed during high school has a much different "race" composition from the general United States population.<p>Several of the replies in this interesting thread ask questions about the system in the United States, so I will refer here to the definitive FAQ about "race" in United States college admission,<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a.html" rel="nofollow">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/13664...</a><p>so that those of you who like to look up reliable sources and check facts are able to do that about this contentious issue. The FAQ will have to be revised, of course, after the Supreme Court issues its opinion in a pending case (cited in the FAQ). Full references to the facts listed above can be found in the FAQ.<p>The collection of "Jewish Problems" (very tough mathematics problems reputedly given to Jewish applicants to Soviet universities) by Tanya Khovanova and Alexey Radul on arXiv<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556</a><p>is directly on-topic for the main submission here. How many of those problems could you solve to get into university?

I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

"It was understood that since Jews represented a minority percentage of the overall population, the university would only accept that percentage into the student body. This was in line with the Soviet Union’s unofficial policy of anti-semitism in the post-Stalin era."<p>So, quotas... are there quotas, official or unofficial, in the USA university system?

I come from a former Soviet Republic and from everything my dad tells me an image emerges - an image of a land where you could do everything,but you always had to bribe the right people, otherwise they wouldn't do anything. Or they would,but it would take them half a year to process the application.<p>My uncle actually studied at the University of Warsaw and was the best student in his year, while doing engineering. He wanted to go on a foreign placement in the UK, which was a very rare opportunity to see some world. So he applied,studied hard, and fulfilled all the requirements. Only to be told a week before going that sorry but he can't go, because the son of the State Secretary is going instead. He had to complain to some very high-positioned officials to be allowed to go next year, but not without being threatened to be kicked out of academia for life first.<p>Funny thing is, that I am currently studying at the same university in the UK my uncle did his placement 40 years ago. Feeling quite proud of that.

Forgive me: This is both a comment on the content and in the process I mentioned something I made recently. I don't want any more users right now.<p>I have a bucket for links called "Mythbusting" on this service I made named Scrooty.<p>I called the bucket "Mythbusting" not as a reference to the TV show but rather for a particular category of content.<p>I often run into misconceptions and tropes that bother me. One of those among people I encounter often is that the Soviet Union was so great compared to the US then or now. Another is things like, say, the excessive praise of Japanese longevity/health.<p>This is a link I'm saving for the next time somebody tries to tell me how devoid of racism the Soviet Union was.<p>Another recent link for this bucket was the (recent, but it's been ongoing) outrage among Chinese farmers not getting recompense for their land from the gov't confiscations.<p>Stories like this are starting to be shared more. Here's hoping it keeps coming.

As a person born in USSR Russia and currently living in Uzbekistan, I can confirm that college entrance system didn't change much in Uzbekistan: 1. You are allowed to apply to 1 state-sponsored university only. If you don't get in, you're SOL. 2. You need to pass medical examination before you submit your documents. This "Medical Form-86" can be bought for $10. 3. You can buy your way into a university, just like rich kids do for Ivy Leagues in USA.<p>The best change since then is the fact that the practice of administering oral and written exams by each university is GONE :)<p>IMHO this was THE MAIN way to deny admission during USSR times. This happened to both of my parents: a. My mom scored perfect on first 2 exams and scored 1 on the final essay. The university in Russia rejected her appeal. Oh, and did I say she was writing for her high school bulletin and won several state essay competitions? b. Same story with my Uzbek dad. Scored well on Math and Physics just to fail the final oral exam. Ended up serving in Army in Saint Petersburg for a few years.<p>Now concerning discrimination in USSR colleges: I have relatives who are Tatars and Uzbeks and I know plenty of Jewish Russians who had no problem getting into universities during USSR times. I also know a few Russians who thought they got perfect scores but ended up getting a ding. Based on my experience, I'd day everyone was against odds due to corruption and lack of connections.

I'm always suspicious about these second hand stories; especially when they're dramatized like this.<p>For instance he says:<p>"You could apply to one and only one university. If you didn’t get in, you’d be conscripted into the army the following Fall."<p>And then explains how he applied to a second university and then how he was offered to apply to a local university in Tashkent.<p>Just to be clear, I don't disagree with his premise, it's just the whole thing is overly dramatized. My uncle also almost didn't get into MSU because they decided he was Jewish, and my dad was rejected and had to go to a different school. The whole thing was really weird because they decide your jewishness solely based on your last name. (which is sorta black magic)<p>Also, from everything I heard, antisemetism wasn't institutional - ie. directed from top down. I've never heard of the quota thing (if it existed, it was done on a school by school basis). For instance MSU was known for being very antisemitic, while other branches of government were not. You've got to remember that a lot of the revolutionaries were jewish, even Lenin was a jew (sorta).

Great post, and a very sad story (with a happy ending). Unfortunately, US (and others) universities applied similar policies (probably, more subtly though) up to 1970: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus...</a>

Racism and racially-motivated policies (mostly affirmative action) definitely exist in the US ... Particularly for older, and less educated populations.<p>But the bottom line is, even if not everyone likes you in the US, you can still live a fully actualized life even if it takes a bit of hard work. In Russia, institutional racism created a hard ceiling that most of the time could not be broken, even with hard work. If you tried to hard, you would go to jail or worse.

A similar story:<p><a href="http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/The-Fifth-problem--math---anti-Semitism-in-the-Soviet-Union-7446" rel="nofollow">http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/The-Fifth-problem--...</a><p>which was previously discussed on HN here:<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047</a>

Thank you for posting this. I like such stories, even though I have never been to the former USSR. I once was working with an (incredibly skilled) C++ guy who was a former officer/engineer in the Soviet army. He told me similar stories.<p>Apparently one day he had to take an examination. What they did was an army radio transmitter, an AK47 machine gun, and they shoot some holes in it. Then they handed it to him and said: Fix it.<p>Another story he told me was about a friend who was in the submarine navy. Days before his university courses would start they got an order to go on patrol. And then he was underwater for a year instead.<p>Also the stories how new soldiers were assigned to bases thousands of miles away from home, apparently so they don't desert and go home etc.<p>I find all that very interesting. It's so different from my experience in (West-) Germany. Everything was easy in comparison here.

Discrimination was not limited to Jews. Ethnic Russians were the only ones not targeted by the State.

Story of your father could not describe the whole system. Anyone could dig the NET and find a lot of jewish names in top places of soviet society. Not only jewish but also many many other man who are not ethnic russians.

Thanks to the OP for posting this. I want to read it to my kids, so they understand how lucky and spoiled we are.<p>I think the persecution of the Jews in any culture is wrong.<p>And so is the persecution of any religion.<p>I think the freedom of religion, including the right to pray in schools, on T.V. and radio, in government, etc. is a freedom that the U.S. was not only founded on, but what people have died for, and I am grateful for that.<p>I'm glad that things have changed in the former Soviet countries. I wish that things weren't changing for the worse here.<p>I have to put up with people telling me about "separation of church and state", which was never meant to be interpreted as it is today. If you can have atheism practiced in schools and taught by teachers, I should be able to have prayer in schools and religion taught by teachers. That is separation of church and state. No one should tell me what I can or cannot do as long as I'm not impeding others' freedoms and pursuit of happiness.<p>And I put up with my government that:<p>* attempts to restrict our freedoms in the name of protection<p>* tries to act in our best interest, but never actively asks what our best interests are<p>But, we are spoiled. I'll take my every phone call and Google search being scanned by the U.S. over the crap people had to put up with in the Soviet Union before.

The book "<i>Perfect Rigor: A Genius and the Mathematical Breakthrough of the Century</i>[0]" which details the life of Giorgi Perelman (who solved the famous Poincare Conjecture) gives a detailed account of antisemitic policies extant in the USSR at the time.<p>[0]:<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Rigor-Mathematical-Breakthrough-Century/dp/015101406X" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Rigor-Mathematical-Breakthroug...</a>

I wonder what is the root cause of anti-semitism? I always thought that anti-semitism is an illness that belonged exclusively to Europe, and they exported this "problem" to Middle East. Now I read that Soviet era, in multiple regions similar problem existed. But why? Do all other ethnics had their own fair share? If not why Jews? Or Jewish people are just more outspoken?

<i>The next day, the director of admissions met my dad. My dad told him his score, and asked if there had been some sort of mistake. The director simply replied, “There’s been no mistake, but you should understand. We’ve already exceeded our percentage for the upcoming semester.”</i><p><i>My dad did understand. He was Jewish.</i><p>Oh God damn it, not again!

My dad had pretty much the same experience. He was not Jewish. He was not Russian (slavic/blond/blue-eyed) either.<p>Russophilia, xenophobia, cronyism and nepotism were rampant in the former USSR. A "prominent" Muscovite Jew (but otherwise a lousy student) would have been treated better than the most talented Uzbek/Kazakh/Tajik.

Wow. Hits very close to home.<p>I was born in St. Petersburg, and my family immigrated to the US when I was 6 years old. My parents are kind, quiet people who weren't risk takers -- the idea that they left everything behind was always bizarre to me.<p>My dad graduated #2 in St. Petersburg for Math/Science (he still has the silver medal for this) but did not get in to the top engineering school. They never gave him a real reason, but he had a Jewish last name.<p>He doesn't seem angry about it, nor does he really bring it up much -- but I can't help but to imagine the risk taker / creator that could've been if he wasn't stomped all over in the soviet days for being Jewish.<p>It's disgusting what decision makers during the soviet regime were able to get away with.

Not to say that the USSR was not anti-semitic in the 1970s, and after Stalin. But I think a great example to show that the revolution was not about any of that is that Ayn Rand Petrograd State University. A Jewish woman, thanks to the revolution.

Good universities meant, the kids of ruling party must be admitted to have good/better careers in apparatus than their parents. This is the main card drawn against people. Some universities had big problem with that like the one who prepared surveillance and contra-surveillance officers, so they switched to admitting only people with no high ranking parents ties back in 80's. As the kids from high ranking officer families were really well known. I also believe there was a lot of ethnicity, and living place (soviet republic you are coming from may shut down the doors into university) discrimination in admission process.

Kudos to your father, Ilya. This is a wonderful, timeless story of perseverance and human desire. The characteristics and settings change, but the spirit is always the same.

Great story. I live in St-Petersburg and I have to correct you. The third picture is not St. Petersburg University of Telecommunications, it is Grand Hotel Europe — the fanciest hotel you can find here, basically you can tell that by looking at the cars parked in front of it. And this is the building of St. Petersburg University of Telecommunications — <a href="http://goo.gl/maps/YRw4Q" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/maps/YRw4Q</a>

This is a great story. Being from an ex-communist country, I've heard numerous stories like this from my parents and their friends.<p>In my country the mandatory army service law was active until 2007. If you didn't get admitted to a college, after finishing the high-school you would've had to serve 1 year in the Army. You would also have to serve even if you got into college, but only for about 6 months after graduating.

In US, at the beginning of XXth century Stanley Kaplan had the similar admission problems. This experience motivated him to start Kaplan SAT preparation business. Few decades later it evolved into Kaplan Inc. (includes Kaplan University).<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Kaplan" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Kaplan</a>

How is this different from the secret Asian admission quota Harvard and the other elite US universities have?

My high school limited any one ethnic group to 45%. This was San Francisco, CA and went on till at least the 90s. Different ethnic groups had different scores to get in. The school district later was sued and the rule is no longer in place.

Such quotas were also in USA. Isaac Asimov originally applied to medical university, but was not accepted for being jew. Hi started writing sci-fi instead.

I read down to the first picture then got a TLDR sense. I did a find for "Jew" and lo and behold, this was the "surprise" climax of this melodrama.<p>For one thing, before World War II, there was a Jewish quota in US Ivy League schools. Why focus close to home in 1940 USA though when you can hear a yarn from 1970 Uzbekistan, about as physically far from the majority of HN readers as possible?<p>Secondly, before World War II, the center-right, even moderate trope in Europe (and the US) was that the USSR was run by Jews. The typical picture ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterO...</a> ) of the Red Army, run by Trotsky, and a politburo with Trotsky, Kamenev and Zinoviev, as well as others who probably were Jews with converted familiies (Krestinsky). So the right got to bash the USSR with being run by Jews when it was convenient, now they get to bash it for being anti-semitic when that is convenient. They get to have it both ways, shifting from one to the exact opposite depending on the times.<p>Third, after the establishment of Israel, Israel and the USSR came more into conflict as Israel allied itself with the US. Things were not that solid in that regard in 1948, but it became clearer over time, and was certainly clear after the 1967 war. This incident happened after 1967.<p>Jews in the USSR would go to a top flight school in the USSR, get their diploma, then immediately go to Israel or the West and get paid a high salary. In fact, certain parts of the Jewish community in the USSR encouraged this behavior. The USSR had limited resources, why should it spend enormous funds with its top scholastic positions educating Jews who were just going to leave?<p>The reality is this is what the other side demands. That the USSR give free Bachelors and Masters and Doctorates at its best schools, blocking those positions for Russians, and then the Jews who would get those degress would skip town with their free doctorates as soon as they get their diplomas, so as to make big money and build up the West.<p>Where could Jews get free education in the US? I'd like to get a free education at a top school in the US. That doens't have to be paid back, and the recipient would immediately move to China and build up their country. We don't have that now, yet people like to pontificate that the 1970 USSR should have offered that.<p>Also, most right wing Jews seem torn over their discussion of the USSR in two poles. On one pole they'll openly discuss (in English! Not even Hebrew) on Youtube videos and elsewhere how they used the Jewish community in the USSR to subvert and undermine the government. On the other hand, they talk about how crazy these governments were to think that Jews were trying to undermine their governments. They say they were trying to subvert the Russian government, but they can't help to boast in pride, in English even, how they did undermine the government and were successful in doing so. The US interned all Japanese people in the 1940s for much less. Yet the USSR didn't hand a free education to every Jew who wanted a free doctorate from a top university before skipping town, so let's bemoan how bad they had it in a country which no longer exists, in something that happened over 40 years ago...