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Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

168 pointsby cajuntrepabout 12 years ago

20 comments

pclabout 12 years ago
I'm surprised that the article didn't touch on differences in childhood mortality rates. The theory proposed has always made a lot of sense to me. However, I would expect any reporting on the topic to consider the extent to which the allergy-sufferers amongst us (such as myself) made it through childhood because of better early childhood medical care, thus skewing the later-in-life allergies and autoimmune disease stats downwards.
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kensabout 12 years ago
The NYTimes had a similar article a month ago describing the exact same Russian and Finnish populations and suggesting lack of microbes might be related to celiac disease:<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opinion/sunday/what-really-causes-celiac-disease.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opinion/sunday/what-really...</a><p>I'm pretty sure there was a HN discussion on this, but I can't find it.<p>Edit: in reply to another comment, the article claims that the two populations are culturally, linguistically and genetically related, so genetics don't explain the differences.
smegelabout 12 years ago
Is this really news or even a new idea? The idea that being exposed to "dirt" or plentiful foreign germs/organisms can build the immune system is one I have been aware of for as long as I can remember. Maybe it just hasn't been "proved" yet.
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tokenadultabout 12 years ago
The article reports an interesting observation: "Still, the 500-mile boundary between Finland and this Russian republic marks one of the steepest standard-of-living gradients in the world: Finns are seven times richer than their neighbors across the border. 'The difference is even greater than between Mexico and the U.S.,' Knip tells me."<p>Then the article gets into the main point: "Soon, studies from around the world showed similarly surprising results. But it was germ-laden dirt that seemed to matter, not air pollution. The children of full-time farmers in rural Switzerland and Bavaria, for example, had far fewer allergies than their non-farming peers. And a study following more than 1,000 babies in Arizona showed that, unless parents also had asthma, living in houses with dogs reduced the chances of wheezing and allergies later in life. Researchers proposed that the more microbial agents that children are exposed to early in life, the less likely they are to develop allergies and autoimmune diseases later on. Studies also showed that baby mice kept in sterile environments were more likely to face autoimmune disease, seeming to back what came to be called the 'hygiene hypothesis.'"<p>I'm still puzzling how hygiene (in this sense) can be measured accurately over the course of a lifetime, as my mother is a farmer's daughter who grew up in the Great Plains during the Dust Bowl era, and thus was probably exposed to plenty of allergens, but she has long struggled with hay fever and other allergy symptoms. My wife grew up in even poorer circumstances early in the development of a developing country, and spent a few years of her childhood literally living on a dirt floor. But she has allergies now too. I wonder how well exposure to dirt or to germs can really be quantified at the individual level for reliable treatment/control studies of this issue, rather than this kind of cross-sectional population comparison. For example, do I really, as a parent, have any clear idea whether my children get more exposure to dirt or less exposure to dirt than the typical American child who is allowed to play outdoors and build sand castles and mud dams? I have no idea, and I'm not sure anyone has an idea.<p>See "Warning Signs in Experimental Design and Interpretation"<p><a href="http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html" rel="nofollow">http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html</a><p>by Peter Norvig, LISP hacker and director of research at Google, and "Worms, Germs, and Dirt: What Can They Teach Us About Allergies and Autoimmune Diseases?"<p><a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/worms-germs-and-dirt-what-can-they-teach-us-about-allergies-and-autoimmune-diseases/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/worms-germs-an...</a><p>by Harriet Hall, M.D. for more information about what we will need to find out to be sure how much this interesting hypothesis has to do with our commonplace diseases.<p>As the article also points out, "These findings don’t mean that people should eschew basic hygiene. Its benefits are clear: In the past 60 years or so, our overall life expectancy has continued to rise. The trick for scientists is to determine exactly which early life exposures to germs might matter and identify the biology behind their potentially protective effect."<p>And because I've seen recent threads here on Hacker News that include comments underestimating just how much longevity and general health have improved in the developed world, I'll share some links on those issues, some of which I learned about from other Hacker News participants and others of which I learned about from a demography of aging researcher. Girls born since 2000 in the developed world are more likely than not to reach the age of 100, with boys likely to enjoy lifespans almost as long. The article "The Biodemography of Human Ageing" by James Vaupel,<p><a href="http://www.demographic-challenge.com/files/downloads/2eb51e2860ef54d218ce5ce19abe6a59/dc_biodemography_of_human_ageing_nature_2010_vaupel.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.demographic-challenge.com/files/downloads/2eb51e2...</a><p>originally published in the journal Nature in 2010, is a good current reference on the subject. Vaupel is one of the leading scholars on the demography of aging and how to adjust for time trends in life expectancy. His striking finding is "Humans are living longer than ever before. In fact, newborn children in high-income countries can expect to live to more than 100 years. Starting in the mid-1800s, human longevity has increased dramatically and life expectancy is increasing by an average of six hours a day."<p><a href="http://www.prb.org/Journalists/Webcasts/2010/humanlongevity.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.prb.org/Journalists/Webcasts/2010/humanlongevity....</a><p>A comparison of period life expectancy tables and cohort life expectancy tables for men and women in Britain<p><a href="http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lifetables/period-and-cohort-life-expectancy-tables/2010-based/p-and-c-le.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lifetables/period-and-cohort-l...</a><p>helps make the picture more clear. ("Period life expectancy" is what is usually reported for a whole country. But cohort life expectancy provides a better estimate of future lifespans of young people today,<p><a href="http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1963392_1963367,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1...</a><p>and is still steadily on the rise around the world.) Life expectancy at age 40, at age 60, and at even higher ages is still rising throughout the developed countries of the world.<p><a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=longevity-why-we-die-global-life-expectancy" rel="nofollow">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=longevity-w...</a>
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aneth4about 12 years ago
After living in China for 4 years, my allergies are gone, and while I got sick here a lot then, I have not had a serious cold in 6 years.<p>The allergy experience mimics many other people who spent time in Asia. The no colds - I think it's related, but most people do still get sick. I used to get terrible colds every few months my entire life. I can now scuba dive because my ears aren't constantly damaged by frequent sickness and fluids.<p>My theory has always been that allergies are a symptom of an under-utilized and under-exercised immune system. Our bodies are designed to be under constant attack. Much like the US is unable to resist invading countries when the world is at peace, our immune system can't stand a sterile body with no foes.
webwielderabout 12 years ago
That's why I ride the MUNI each and every day.
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swahabout 12 years ago
Here in Brazil, elderly people say that kids should receive a healthy dose of "Vitamin S" (S referring to 'sujeira' - dirt in portuguese)
papaverabout 12 years ago
its always amusing to read articles from respected sources about beliefs one has held for a long time. it feels mostly obvious to me that underexposure to germs can lead to more problems than fix. i guess a lot of my beliefs could come from visiting india and less developed countries.<p>its quite scary how many daily/regular routines come from people with ulterior motives. reminds me of the diamond article recent published by pricenomics. most people are ok with conforming to the norm without question.<p>anti-bacterial soap? really? im pretty sure all bacteria is not bad, and some actually quite helpful. regular shampoo? makeup constantly blocking the pours, not allowing the skin on the face to breath? deodorant?? i wonder how the toilet paper companies convinced the entire western culture that washing their bum with their hands was disgusting. isn't it more disgusting to have a bum thats not washed?? ah the magic of the marketing department.
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jasonkesterabout 12 years ago
I'm going to filter this through my skewed outlook on the world and conclude that it's another datapoint in support of travelling the world as much as possible.<p>We uprooted our 10 month old son last winter and set up shop in a little fishing village in Nicaragua for a few months. He spent his time eating the local dirt while we surfed. And now we have conclusive proof that this was the Best Thing We Could Have Possibly Done for him.<p>Glad to hear I'm such a great parent.<p>This article also rings true for me from a personal perspective. I spend a lot of time in the developing world, and make a point of brushing my teeth in the local tap water and eating those poisonous lettuce leaves and local cheese that the Lonely Planet warns you so strongly against. I find that over the years I've gradually stopped getting sick at all while on the road.<p>I think there's something to be said for training your immune system.
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andrewlabout 12 years ago
There is research suggesting that exposure to bacteria (<i>Mycobacterium vaccae</i> in this case) can help cure depression. I first read about it in this article from <i>The Economist</i>:<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/node/8956457" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/node/8956457</a>
contingenciesabout 12 years ago
It seems like without waiting for the results of this study there's a more simple solution - to protect your children from <i>rich man's disease</i> (of all kinds), travel with them to developing countries and live there for reasonable periods of time alongside the locals, how they live ("When in Rome"). Not only will they be more worldly, gain linguistic prowess and be better adjusted to foreign cultures in general, but they are likely to receive immune system benefits.<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Man%27s_Disease#Cause" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Man%27s_Disease#Cause</a>
refurbabout 12 years ago
There is a company that is putting the hygiene hypotheses to the test. Coronado Bioscience is trying to treat Crohn's disease with pig whipworm eggs. The worms can't live in a human host, but they do develop into full worms and thus trigger the body's immune system.<p>The initial phase 1 studies were quite remarkable, but I'm keeping an eye out for the phase 2 studies which should provide more robust data.<p><a href="http://biotechtranslated.com/2011/07/30/the-hygiene-hypothesis-goes-on-trial/" rel="nofollow">http://biotechtranslated.com/2011/07/30/the-hygiene-hypothes...</a>
kmookabout 12 years ago
I recently read a book about this very concept, the author went over hundreds of studies like the one you just read and has some interesting conclusions, in the book titled "An Epidemic of Absence"
malandrewabout 12 years ago
I don't know about allergies, but I was under the impression that improving hygiene standards was directly related to the polio epidemic of 1916 [0]. I was surprised that it and maternal antibodies were not mentioned once in the linked article.<p>[0] <a href="http://www.virologyj.com/content/pdf/1743-422X-4-70.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.virologyj.com/content/pdf/1743-422X-4-70.pdf</a>
giardiniabout 12 years ago
And the "dirt vaccine" seems to boost/correct the immune system of both pigs and men:<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/18/5" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/sep/18/5</a><p>and<p><a href="http://www.thepigsite.com/swinenews/7892/dirt-vaccine-research" rel="nofollow">http://www.thepigsite.com/swinenews/7892/dirt-vaccine-resear...</a>
rikacometabout 12 years ago
This reminds me of my general curiosity about, how our muscles develop in regards to workout during early childhood, and during our adulthood. Its a vague feeling, but I want to share it, if it helps.
Zimahlabout 12 years ago
I can buy trying to figure out allergies, but Type I diabetes? It's clearly hereditary, rarely showing up without some family link. Finland may have a high rate due to a lack of ethnic diversity.
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soperjabout 12 years ago
This is probably just a nitpick but it annoys me when they say minus 40 degrees Fahrenheit, since it doesn't matter.
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creed0rabout 12 years ago
From the article: “It was so unexpected,”...<p>George Carlin on germs: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v=X29lF43mUlo#t=29s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v...</a><p>Was it? Really?
eofabout 12 years ago
I always just assumed it was because rich countries are full of lazy-fat-fucks.
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