You don’t have to feel guilty for oversleeping

People's sleep cycles are just different, even if it's not fashionable to acknowledge that. They differ with the person and they differ with the personal situation at the time. This notion that there is <i>The One True Sleep Pattern</i> and that everybody should adhere to it is not tenable in my opinion. It's a strategy that sells books on how to become "normal", nothing else.<p>I'm a night person, I viscerally hate mornings, and when I can I "oversleep" until 10 or even 11 in the morning. I go to bed when I'm tired, I usually sleep well and wake up rested in the morning. Sometimes I get tired during the day and when I can I respond to that by napping for a little while. In the absence of outside disruption, this works fine. I feel great and productive. On average I sleep 7-8 hours total, sometimes more, sometimes less. It's still possible to do a standard 7-to-5 workday, but after a while of doing that I simply become less productive and I start hating my day.<p>I've been told, directly and indirectly through "sleep experts" in the media, that my natural pattern is unhealthy and I <i>must</i> take steps to align myself with the same standardized day that is working so well for everybody else. Waking up feeling like you just got steamrolled, traffic jams, morning grumpiness, and being in the office before the boss arrives. Fuck that.

I started working at a small startup in January. With the team as small as it is, the working hours are very flexible -- if I make it into the office at 10:00, I'm usually the first one there.<p>Since I had the luxury, I did something that I want to wholeheartedly recommend to anyone who can: I stopped using an alarm clock.<p>I'm a "night owl". I tend to have trouble sleeping before midnight, and often stay up later than that. Unfortunately, for most of my life (from school, to university, to a 9-5 job at a "real" company) I've had to wake up earlier than I would otherwise, normally around 7:00 or 7:30. It was always a struggle, and I would usually hit snooze a few times before I actually managed to struggle out of bed. Even if I happened to go to bed early enough to get 8 hours' sleep, I'd have trouble getting up.<p>It took me about a month at to sleep off my debt. Now I go to bed when I want, and wake up in the morning around 8:00 or 8:30, no alarm needed. I went from 3-4 cups of coffee per day to 1. I'm almost always in a good mood, even first thing in the morning. I used to be convinced that sleeping for 10 hours if I wasn't interrupted was just a fact of my existence; now I wake up after 7 and a half hours, all by myself.<p>This is not an endorsement for setting your schedule to 10-6. It's an endorsement for not setting your schedule. If you treat yourself right, body will know when it's time to get some work done, no clock needed.

The thing about morning people is you just can't trust them, because a part of them will always believe that night people are lazy; they just can't get over it, no matter how rationally you explain your situation. And you can't trust people like that, because they'll never understand the difference between something they just happen to like or believe and something that is universally Right, Good, and True. To them there's no difference. Every Dystopia was a morning person's idea, I guarantee it.

"Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome."<p>This is where you lost me. If you're arguing that it's normal, <i>don't call it a freaking syndrome.</i> Don't give it an ADHD-like name, don't make it a diagnosis. Say it's nature, say what you mean, stop with the excuses. You are making exactly the opposite of your case.<p>No reasonable person will listen to the deluge of "treat your Shift Work Disorder with this pill" and "solve your Erectile Disfunction" with this pill and somehow hear "Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome" and not think "yeah... bullshit."<p>If you want to alter people's idea of normal, don't frame your existence the way people frame diseases and disorders. You are not changing perspectives, you are reinforcing them, and you are making yourself look <i>even more abnormal.</i>

It seems as though this comments section is filled with self-proclaimed "night owls." I'm curious, have any of you read the linked articles about variables that influence people to remain awake later than they should and have these types of erratic sleep patterns / modified circadian rhythms (heavy computer use / blue light exposure)? And, have any of you tested your own reaction to curtailing these late-night activities while introducing natural sunlight stimulant in the morning?<p>I'm not asking in a derogatory way; I'm genuinely curious since I experimented with this myself and found positive results. My guess is that most haven't, and that it's easier just to accept a "night owl" classification in lieu of hundreds of thousands of years of human dependence on the sun and fire for light. Based on my limited research it seems that those without significant mental illness sleep well with habit and controlled stimuli (including natural light). Has anyone, through any amount of reasonable testing, found this NOT to be true?

The annoying thing when it comes to this kind of sleep problem is that it never gets completely better. Over time I've come up with ways to ensure I actually get up early enough for important events and don't sleep through alarms - not even 'i hit the snooze button' problems but just alarms literally not waking me up - whether it's by making alarms louder, setting 6 alarms spaced out 15 minutes apart (yes, really), or going without sleep if I have to wake up too soon (in practice I found that getting 3-4 hours of sleep consistently is impossible; I always sleep through the alarms).<p>Even with all that though, nothing really changed. If I go a week or so without setting alarms and just let my body wake up naturally after a night's sleep, I will naturally drift from waking up at say 6am to waking up at 11am. Sometimes I drift backwards, and find myself waking up in the dead of night at 4am and being completely awake. It's extremely valuable to be in a work environment where you can at least mitigate this by going in to work early some days and late others.<p>I also find that forcing yourself to adhere to a sleep schedule that doesn't feel natural can result in more fatigue, and I wonder if other people have the same experience. I tried doing an 'early' schedule at work a few times, waking up at about 6am and heading in to work early, and always found that I was completely exhausted by 5pm. Moving my waking time forward a few hours almost always alleviated the problem. Maybe it's something you get used to only after doing it for months at a time?

Melatonin works for me. Unless you have DSPS, I cannot tell you how amazing it is for the alarm to go off at 7:30, once, and to be able to get out of bed. It has changed my life.<p>I take my girls to school. I check email before 8. At the weekends I can lie in till 10 and its a real lie in, not a normal weekday.

You don't have to feel guilty, but you still might get fired.<p>Jason Freedman answers only to shareholders, not a boss, which is why he can decide whether he feels guilty or not.

I wasn't aware I had Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome until I read this. However, this was the main reason I became an entrepreneur. After suffering every morning during high school, I swore to myself that I would never use an alarm clock when I was an adult. I'm happy to say that I've achieved this goal, thanks to DSPS.

Many of you may use flux to help with this. I also built an app for late night work sessions that adjusts for warmer light while also reducing the monitor's brightness. For OS X. Here's a few promo codes if interested:<p><a href="http://tokn.co/0fgu5wvx" rel="nofollow">http://tokn.co/0fgu5wvx</a> <a href="http://tokn.co/k6r3ggcw" rel="nofollow">http://tokn.co/k6r3ggcw</a> <a href="http://tokn.co/qgqrsvy2" rel="nofollow">http://tokn.co/qgqrsvy2</a> <a href="http://tokn.co/4zmmdt89" rel="nofollow">http://tokn.co/4zmmdt89</a> <a href="http://tokn.co/3pdx3jtv" rel="nofollow">http://tokn.co/3pdx3jtv</a>

I have this problem too. Are you sure we aren't lazy? I'm fairly sure if I busted my ass (by that I mean a constant work stream all the way through with absolute minimum interruption) 9-5 every day and then did a hard workout I wouldn't have my 'delayed sleep' problem.<p>Easier said than done, though.

Here's an ongoing frustration... I'm currently working on a startup while maintaining a day job, which means LOTS of hours. I'm often (usually) working until I go to bed. Now, I'm at my best productivity code-wise when I first start working in the morning (no, not a morning person). So I'd like to get up earlier and put in a couple of hours on the startup in the morning, before I have to go do the dayjob - give my best couple of hours to MY work rather than someone else's work. Working two hours from 6am-8am would be more productive for me than working two hours from 10pm-12am. But when I'm working late at night, it's really hard to let it go and tell myself to pick it up in the morning. Knowing logically that this is true isn't enough. Sigh.

My work used to start at 10 and it was hard to be there in the morning meeting by 10AM. I always used to be late.. people are getting changed in our team, so rules. I was asked to come by 9-9:15 and there is new meeting scheduled at 9:30 and I was being constantly mocked for being late.<p>I came across this <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=359041" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=359041</a> and seems this guy is similar to me, but a more severe problem. I am a consultant and not worried about getting a new job when fired and team looks for the work I have done unlike fulltime. But I hate the feeling of subtle mocking for being late by my lead in my current job :(

So pleased I saw this. I overslept this morning and felt shit about it. Luckily the startup I work for doesn't care when I come in, but I know it will just mean it will be even later before I feel tired tonight.<p>I've had identical problems for as long as I can remember. It's been so hard to track down the cause. I think it's partly stress/anxiety, but it also definitely correlates with being alone, on my computer, late at night.<p>I installed f.lux but I haven't noticed any difference. I'll try some of these other suggestions and see if the combination makes any difference.

A couple of times a week, I wake up at 3 or 4a &#38; can't go back to sleep for a couple of hours.<p>Does anyone else run into this? What approaches did you take to counteract?

3 years ago I could no longer fall asleep before 5am and it was severely affecting my ability to concentrate, which as a software engineer is a death knell. Like most, I internalize my problems, exacerbating my frustration, worsening sleep, and creating a negative feedback loop.<p>Today, I sleep like a baby, and it's INCREDIBLY EASY to fix. Follow these steps, and you'll never have difficulty falling asleep again:<p>1. Melatonin [1]<p>Melatonin is how your body knows when it's time to go to sleep. It's produced naturally, but with DSPD (Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder), by definition it occurs later than it should. Taking melatonin an hour before you go to sleep is like a hard reset. I can't overstate this enough. It doesn't matter how much blue light or caffeine you've taken (for the most part) during the day, or how stressed you are, if you take 9mg of melatonin, you'll fall asleep in an hour. Period. Eventually, with some of the below, you can achieve the same affect with 1mg, and once you establish a regular schedule you'll no longer require it at all.<p>2. Wake Light [2]<p>A natural sun alarm clock. If you get enough sleep (easy once the melatonin ensures you fall asleep on time), waking up to one of these is a breeze (and a joy).<p>3. Avoid Blue Light<p>Same thing as the article states, avoid it. Computers, iPhone, etc...<p>4. Cold shower [3]<p>It drops your body temperature and moves your blood away from your prefrontal cortex to your core alleviating your mind from racing.<p>5. Earplugs [4,5]<p>My dogs feat clitter clatter across our hard wood floors. My wife wakes up before me. Our house creeks. etc.... Occasionally I also use an eye cover, but it's less impactful.<p>6. Socks &#38; t-shirt [6]<p>They help regulate body temperature.<p>7. Obey Your Sleep Cycles [7]<p>Our bodies have natural sleep cycles (90m for the first, ~110m for the 2-3rd). When my alarm clock goes off, and I still feel sleepy, I roll over with my eyes facing my wake light and effectively snooze until I feel awake. Eventually the combination of white light and the conclusion of my sleep cycle, leave me feeling awake and alert.<p>8. Sleep alarm<p>In my experience, it's been more important for me to set an alarm at night (9:45) to start getting ready for bed, than to set one in the morning. Having a regular sleep schedule allows you to work <i>with</i> your body instead of against it. If you're having trouble sleeping, or you anticipate having trouble, take melatonin until your body starts to adapt to your new schedule and it's no longer necessary.<p>9. Relax<p>1 hour before your sleep alarm you should be doing something relaxing. It won't matter if when your sleep alarm goes off, you're running around busily doing things. I make sure I'm doing something relaxing like watching TV or reading a book in bed for at least an hour before my sleep alarm goes off.<p>10. iPhone Wakeup<p>One thing that helps wake me up on those difficult mornings is to crank the brightness on my iPhone and sit and read a few articles. The white light naturally tells my body it's time to start the day, and eventually I don't mind waking up.<p>Life is so much better now that I can count on fantastic sleep every night!<p>[1] <a href="http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-overview" rel="nofollow">http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/tc/melatonin-overview</a><p>[2] <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Hf3470-Wake-up-Light-White/dp/B003XN4RIC/" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Hf3470-Wake-up-Light-White/dp/...</a><p>[3] <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=cold+shower+before+sleeping" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/search?q=cold+shower+before+sleeping</a><p>[4] <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068HC0X4/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068HC0X4/ref=oh_details_o...</a><p>[5] <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7MMP2/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7MMP2/ref=oh_details_o...</a><p>[6] <a href="http://lifehacker.com/wear-socks-to-fall-asleep-easily-476550620" rel="nofollow">http://lifehacker.com/wear-socks-to-fall-asleep-easily-47655...</a><p>[7] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#cite_ref-17" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#cite_ref-17</a>

I think this is just a matter of training and motivation. I am waking up each morning at 5:30am. I love the silence in the morning and the fact that i can do whatever i want, with no interruptions, at top concentration power.<p>I could be at work at 7 am if i wanted to, but i am a programmer and most of my colleagues get there between 9 and 12, so 8am is just good.

Honor your commitments, yet be true to yourself. Not all of us are 8 to 5 people, and the world would not quite work as well if we all were (Who is going to be monitoring your network while you're asleep?).<p>My belief is: Be a person of your word; If you commit to being somewhere at a certain time, honor that commitment.

False. Guilt is not shame, because it is rooted in fact. The fact of the matter is that if I fail to feel guilty for oversleeping, I will eventually be fired. If I am fired, I will no longer be able to support myself. (You can see where this is going, logically.)<p>So yes, I <i>do</i> have to feel guilty for oversleeping.

Fuck I wish I had this problem. I have insomnia and I only get 3-4 hours of sleep a day.

I don't feel a damn bit guilty, especially when it comes to blowing off work.

"Be the first to share this on Hacker News"<p>I'm not sure how this is news worthy- I guess some people feel every entry in their diary of personal accomplishments must grace the pages of Hacker News. I'm glad the author overcame his disorder, but asking people to post it to HN...<p>I also imagine this will be a great way for a lot more people than the 0.15 to 0.17% of the population that actually has Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder [1] to rationalize their lack of willpower.<p>1: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder#Prevalence" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder#Pr...</a>