<i>Disclosure: I dropped out of college just before my senior year in order to accept a position in my chosen field.</i><p>I don't think that college is unnecessary. In fact, I'd say that as more and more people go to college, it becomes <i>more</i> necessary to hold a degree in order to compete--even at entry-level positions. I have friends that are getting beaten out for restaurant work because they don't have a degree (really).<p>This, to me, is where the problem lies. We are simultaneously overvaluing (for basic, entry-level work) and undervaluing (for higher-level jobs) college degrees.<p>There is no doubt that to get, say, an entry-level engineering job in today's market, you need a degree (and from what I've seen, preferably a Master's). But if you have your bachelors and are still struggling to get work that traditionally doesn't require one (administrative assistants, call center employees, service industry staff, etc. come to mind), is it worth spending $40-$200k on a degree?<p>Furthermore, skilled trades in the United States are plummeting. Mike Rowe addressed this very well in his TED talk[1]: electricians, plumbers and mechanics are getting more and more rare (and are still highly in demand) because of the stigma of not attending college.<p>I believe that in the next several years, as unemployment for college graduates becomes more visible, that skilled trades will once again become respectable, admired careers. It's crazy to me that people like Master Electricians ever became stigmatized at all--we are in serious need of their services, and it requires immense skill and intelligence to perform their jobs.<p>1: <a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_rowe_celebrates_dirty_jobs.htm...</a>
It's kind of unsettling that the idea that a college-level education is for the elite only is starting to settle in. Rich benefactors like Peter Thiel and Mayor Bloomberg, both of whom seem to think they got where they are on talent alone, are broadcasting this idea that college is totally unnecessary.<p>Rather than telling students to skip college shouldn't we be finding a way to make a high-quality college education affordable and not confined to the very rich or exceptionally gifted? I agree with Bloomberg on many things (but certainly not all) but this is just snobbery and elitism diguised as "reasonableness."<p>Bloomberg has been a huge donor to Johns Hopkins. Perhaps he should redirect more of his contributions from propping up the endowment of an elite institution like Hopkins (some of which, in fairness, does go to financial aid) to actually directly paying for underprivileged kids to obtain such an elite education.
As a college grad, my opinion might not be considered all that informed (and maybe that's fair), but honestly, "everybody gets college" seems like a shit goal to me.<p>Not only do most professions not need a liberal arts education, many people just aren't interested in it (very, very few people really <i>need</i> it, though the people that do, in my opinion, include anyone who intends to get into any kind of politics or social science).<p>It's long been my opinion that technical schools are horribly under-utilized, at least in the US (which is the basis for all my comments, as I'm woefully unequipped to comment on anything else). I also believe that apprenticeships are perhaps the best possible method of practical education there has ever been, and that this is an area presenting a massive business potential that's being significantly underutilized.<p>Why not be a plumber? It's a dirty job -- many are -- but not only does <i>somebody</i> have to do it, a <i>lot</i> of people have to do it, or a lot of people without dirty jobs are going to get dirty and not know how to deal with it.<p>This is a vital profession that doesn't require expensive education. There are many like it. We should encourage consideration of options like this for <i>everyone</i>.
- personal betterment -> college is no longer necessary
- academic career and scientific research -> applies only to the best of the best.
- as a professional investment -> the return on investment has to be considered. Is degree X for University of Y increase individual's earnings potential sufficiently to justify investing 4 years and $50-200K? For significant chunk of people, certainly not all, the answer is no. If you're not getting a degree that is in demand, attending an elite university, chances are investment in college does not make commercial sense, and as Bloomberg states, may be better of learning a trade.<p>Food for thought: If 3 high school graduates pooled their financial resources they would be investing into private college education, they'd have ~$360K seed money (from tuition), and 4 years living expenses to come up with a viable business. I bet they'd learn a ton as well. Better yet, if they had first learned a trade and worked a couple of years, they may actually build some useful things instead of yet another social network.
Laurence Kotlikoff is really famous for his claim that plumbers actually lead pretty good lives. He says that a general practitioner would on average make only $423 more per year in discretionary income than a plumber. Here's a piece from him where he talks about the numbers involved. <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-09/study-hard-to-find-if-harvard-pays-off-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-09/study-hard-to-find-...</a>
We shouldn't have increased college attendance as the goal.<p>We should have increased education as the goal.<p>The more informed and knowledgable we can make the average citizen the more we can do to improve quality of life.
The real issue is the "four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income". Education is essential for the meaningful progress of society and humanity, we can't let a "tough economy" stand in the way of long-term thinking. We also can't let greed stand in the way of bright young minds realizing themselves. Education needs to be free, thorough, and challenging, that way the minds that crave it will have unrestrained access to it, and those who don't can go ahead and pick a trade job, but not because of an empty wallet, but because that's what they genuinely want.
My plumber is a salt-of-the-earth type and he is loaded. I told him I considered telling my daughter to get into the business. He said that she would make a killing because housewives are generally afraid to let strange men in.
He's right. People need education, not necessarily the education that you get for a BA in whatever.<p>What's wrong with plumbers, anyway. People in the this thread seem to be implying that it is a lesser profession. You solve problems, have opportunities for entrepreneurship, and have a progressive path for mastery of the craft.<p>I know a few people always whining about Sallie Mae. They are art teachers, social workers and service sector types. All of these folks borrowed 6 figures to get degrees from private schools in fields that require a lot of expensive education and little compensation.<p>Making $60k to watch 6th graders draw sounds like a sweet gig... But paying $650/mo in loans makes it a subsistence job.
Remember that a good portion of college debt is held by people who thought they wanted to go to college, went in, accrued debt and then decided to do something different. Its good to have people in power say, 'do what is right for you.'
I live in Western Australia. We have a massive skills shortage in trades such as electricians, plumbers, mechanics etc. The stigma attached to non-university careers scared parents into encouraging offspring into degrees instead. (Combined with a mining boom soaking up tradesman job hunters)<p>Today, I do not know any good 'tradies' that are not making at least 100k per year, and far, far more if heading to the mining industry.<p>Suffice to say, I do more youtube searching on how to 'fix a leaking tap' than ever before.
>> The only schools that cost $40,000 or $50,000 like the mayor said are elite schools,” Kantrowitz said.<p>uh... I hope they are talking per year here. The article doesn't make that clear, but 40k in debt after 4 years at a public/state college is very very possible... Bloomberg might be out of touch with how tuition has skyrocketed. Heck, I graduated in 07, and in-state tuition at my alma mater has DOUBLED since then...
I wonder how many of our current social problems in high school are caused by our dropping apprenticeships and vocational education and going "college is the only acceptable result" route? We treat high school age students like children but expect them to think in terms of their adult future. At a time when some maturity and critical thinking needs to be developed, we keep the same factory system from elementary school.
We should really be asking WHAT we want out of college then look at the best way to provide that whether it is college or not.<p>Also, this question is somewhat US centric since in Europe (correct me if I am wrong), if you want to become a lawyer, you can just go straight to law school (instead of doing 4 years and then going to law school).<p>I personally think that these are the most important goals:
1) time and space for young adults to ask basic questions of themselves and the society they live in, to try and fail, pick yourself up again
2) exposure to some of the best the society has to offer: art, science, literature, etc...
3) training ground for specializing in a field<p>So going into a trade will give you 3), but should there be more societal support for 1) and 2)? IMHO, coursera and the like theoretically spread limited availability of 3) but because of their virtual nature do a worse job of 1) and 2).
In the US it -used- to be that kids who didn't have all the money they needed for school could -fairly easily- find a job or two to help themselves get through.<p>That was helped by the fact that public-school tuition was CHEAP. In the 60s at a major university you might pay $150 tuition PER QUARTER ($225/semester). Room and board at a university dormitory? $120/month. With maid service.<p>Compare $500/year to $15,000 -- 33 times more costly -- and ask yourself what happened in the US to make education SO much more expensive (rent in that period has increased by a factor of 10 to 15) and why part-time jobs are either looked down on or so much harder to find.<p>Add to that a willingness to go deeply into debt (without, it seems, much understanding of how dangerous that is) that would have been -unthinkable- at that time.
Education is costly, so much that in sometime it's going to be elite only. Hell, it's elite only right now, minus the huge loans.<p>So, instead of making it affordable, elites(whether they reached their elite spot on talent alone or they were born with silver spoons) they are suggesting to skip it altogether(if one can't afford it).<p>It's a lot better in <i>those</i> countries where Govt. provides quality education to greater extent and even private fees are regulated. Or maybe it's demand and supply mechanism. For people from other countries it's just the best short cut for a green card, especially the Asians.