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Ask HN: How it Works: what do the Dave Winer threads tell us about sexism in IT?

6 pointsby flootchalmost 12 years ago
In the past 48 hours there have been two threads "about" Dave Winer, and I think they have given us food for thought about the Hacker News Community.<p>https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5738455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5744224<p>First, I recognize that in many ways, Hacker News was abusive of Dave Winer, and for that, I am sorry that we were abusive to any person. And I hope we can conduct this thread without any more such abuse to anyone.<p>I think the Dave Winer threads are the control in an ongoing experiment in Hacker Community Sexism.<p>And so I do wonder how it works: http://xkcd.com/385/<p>Significant themes in the two Dave Winer threads were:<p><pre><code> Dave Winer is a *blankety blank* I'm sick of hearing about Dave Winer Dave Winer is expected to suck it up when we tell him off Our behavior in telling Dave Winer off is just SOP for IT If Dave Winer complains, it just proves our point </code></pre> In the past year, we've seen many similar incidents all around the Internet, and at Hacker News that work like this:<p><pre><code> Wow, IT is really sexist. </code></pre> But when something very similar to these other incidents occurs to a man, it works like this:<p><pre><code> Wow, IT has a lot of jerks </code></pre> So I wonder, if Dave was a woman, would either thread have gone down the rabbit holes? Would the same participants in each thread have behaved in the same way?<p>Substitute a woman's name for "Dave Winer"....<p>And would we be reading about Hacker News sexism today at Salon, Slate, The Washington Post, Reddit, Huffington Post, the Guardian, The New York Times, Jezebel, etc.?<p>Maybe we ignore our real problems by lumping individual misanthropic jerk behavior into a claim of collective misogyny. Perhaps people should stop projecting onto all of IT, the behaviors of a few.

5 comments

brudgersalmost 12 years ago
A blog would be a more suitable format for these opinions and speculations.
redmarxalmost 12 years ago
It doesn't matter. Seriously, this is a ridiculous thread. Dave Winer is always a controversial topic. Know why? Because he's been severely caustic in the past, to many, many people.<p>Some people go to far, of course, and they only make Winer look like a victim. But Winer is only getting a backlash from the way he's acted the past 20 years.<p>So saying "would a woman receive the same abuse" is a useless question. It should be "would a woman that has attacked and abused and been generally a dick towards many people over the past 20 years" receive the same treatment.<p>Dave Winer has done some cool things in the past. He's also been an asshole for many years to many people. That's the truth, and saying that doesn't make me a hater, or a troll. Lastly, you're playing right into his hands. The more threads the more Winer loves it, and the more he can claim to be a victim.
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davewineralmost 12 years ago
A few ideas for HN to cut down on abuse.<p><a href="http://threads2.scripting.com/2013/may/aSuggestionForHackerNews" rel="nofollow">http://threads2.scripting.com/2013/may/aSuggestionForHackerN...</a><p>Dave
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Mzalmost 12 years ago
And this matters why? Wrong is wrong. Does it matter why people were cretins? Does this do anything to help people behave better?
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bowerbirdalmost 12 years ago
please stop talking about dave winer. at all. _please._<p>-bowerbird