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What is Happening in Istanbul?

1007 pointsby bencevansalmost 12 years ago

70 comments

ChrisNorstromalmost 12 years ago
CNN STORY (with images): <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/02/world/europe/turkey-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/02/world/europe/turkey-protests/i...</a><p>It's now a full blown anti-government riot. The park issue was just the last straw that set it off.<p>The original poster was telling the truth now stop arguing about shopping malls.
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Stekoalmost 12 years ago
Via wiki's list of turkish newspapers (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Turkey" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Turkey</a>):<p><a href="http://www.zaman.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zaman.com.tr/</a> Democratic, Islamic, Liberal ENGLISH: <a href="http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/</a><p><a href="http://www.posta.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.posta.com.tr/</a> Populism<p><a href="http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/anasayfa/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/anasayfa/</a> Nationalism, Kemalist, Centre-Right ENGLISH: <a href="http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/</a><p><a href="http://www.sabah.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sabah.com.tr/</a> Liberal Conservatism, Center-Right<p><a href="http://www.sozcu.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sozcu.com.tr/</a> Nationalism, Kemalism, Secular<p><a href="http://www.milliyet.com.tr/AnaSayfa/" rel="nofollow">http://www.milliyet.com.tr/AnaSayfa/</a> Kemalist, Nationalist, Secular, Center-Left<p><a href="http://www.haberturk.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.haberturk.com/</a> Nationalism, Conservatism, Right-Wing<p><a href="http://www.turkiyegazetesi.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.turkiyegazetesi.com/</a> Conservatism, Right-Wing<p><a href="http://www.stargazete.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stargazete.com/</a> Liberal Conservatism, Center-Right<p><a href="http://www.gazetevatan.com/root.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.gazetevatan.com/root.asp</a> Kemalist, Nationalist, Secular<p><a href="http://www.bugun.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bugun.com.tr/</a> Conservative-Democrat, Nationalism, Center-Right<p><a href="http://www.takvim.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.takvim.com.tr/</a> Center-Right<p><a href="http://www.aksam.com.tr/" rel="nofollow">http://www.aksam.com.tr/</a> Center-Left<p><a href="http://yenisafak.com.tr" rel="nofollow">http://yenisafak.com.tr</a> Islamism, Conservatism, Right-Wing<p>edit: added some English links above. Also <a href="http://www.goodmorningturkey.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.goodmorningturkey.com/</a>
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quartertoalmost 12 years ago
Loath as I am to cite Buzzfeed, but: the images of the people on the bridge are not from these protests. They are from the 2012 Istanbul Marathon. <a href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwarz/one-of-the-most-popular-photos-from-the-protests-in-turkey-i" rel="nofollow">http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwarz/one-of-the-most-popula...</a>
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DeusExMachinaalmost 12 years ago
I just went to Youtube, and on the first page there was this video of a protester overrun by a police tank: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbYQ_dzFniY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbYQ_dzFniY</a><p>EDIT: it looks to me that at the beginning of the video you can spot the feet of another person behind him.
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mathieuhalmost 12 years ago
The police are basically treating this like war. Remember this the next time someone says we should treat the police with respect because they're 'just doing their job'. It's not a stick with a worker at both ends, it a stick with a worker at one end and the state at the other.
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vrodicalmost 12 years ago
Looking at it from a class perspective:<p>"Erdogan’s vision of Turkey is one full of citizens who piously pray in the country’s ubiquitous mosques and then go shopping at one of its equally ubiquitous malls, which are frantically being built in urban areas.<p>As long as the imports, credit card, and debt-driven Turkish economic bubble remains intact, the government will continue to pursue these and other neoliberal policies to the great praise of western think-thanks, private equity firms, and politicians who all repeat the fallacy of the ‘Turkish [success] model’.<p>Notwithstanding these neoliberal economic policies, Erdogan is still extremely popular among Turkey’s poor and working people in both urban and rural areas. Most western observers have missed this crucial fact and are, therefore, quick to enthusiastically compare the Gezi Park protests with the ‘Arab Spring’.<p>One has only to speak with blue-collar workers in Turkey to understand popular attitudes toward the government. Whenever I am in Istanbul, I engage in political small talk with people from various walks of life, including waiters, construction workers, and young men working on the ferries crossing the Bosporus. I also frequently visit my family members, who are from a poor Anatolian background.<p>In my conversations with these people, I have heard nothing but firm support for Erdogan. When asked about Turkey’s unemployment rate or the Prime Minister’s nepotism, most of these individuals do not hesitate to say, “I know that Erdogan is also ‘siphoning the cash’ (hortumluyorlar). But good for him (helal olsun). At least he is leaving us some crumbs. The previous bastards never gave us everything.” Memories of many decades of economic and political oppression by secular elites are still fresh for many Turks. Because of the AKP, these people now have access to things like privatized health care, credit card use, and unprecedented infrastructure development."<p><a href="http://muftah.org/why-the-gezi-park-protests-do-not-herald-a-turkish-spring-yet/" rel="nofollow">http://muftah.org/why-the-gezi-park-protests-do-not-herald-a...</a>
idocoalmost 12 years ago
I recommend - <a href="http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/" rel="nofollow">http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com/</a><p>What puzzle me the most, is the voluntary cooperation of the media with the government. Even if the media does not support this event, how they not cover it at all? sad, I always thought of Turkey as the most successful example of a Muslim democratic state.
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saurikalmost 12 years ago
Another explanation, with more detail "on the ground":<p><a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/im_so_confused_can_someone_provide_a_clear_cut/caaggt6" rel="nofollow">http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/im_so_conf...</a>
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pessimismalmost 12 years ago
@Brown_Moses (<a href="https://twitter.com/brown_moses" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/brown_moses</a>) is one of the best people to follow on these subjects.<p>Eliot is an interesting example of one a single well-connected individual can accomplish in the digital age: <a href="http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-brown-moses-blog/x/2550379" rel="nofollow">http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-brown-moses-blog/x/255...</a>.<p>His feed is a bit of a firehose feed, so I recommend you only follow him, whenever you need to immerse yourself in an ongoing story.<p>The things going on in Turkey are so insane, they have to be seen to be believed.<p>EDIT: His YouTube playlist with videos of the clashes: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvUktDH-OBM&#38;list=PLPC0Udeof3T6EQfTPPnuyek1gNRCTiulH&#38;index=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvUktDH-OBM&#38;list=PLPC0Ude...</a>.
apialmost 12 years ago
"These people are my friends. They are my students, my relatives. They have no «hidden agenda» as the state likes to say. Their agenda is out there. It is very clear. The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government, for the construction of malls, luxury condominiums, freeways, dams and nuclear plants. The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its people’s will.<p>On top of all that, the government control over its people’s personal lives has become unbearable as of late. The state, under its conservative agenda passed many laws and regulations concerning abortion, cesarean birth, sale and use of alcohol and even the color of lipstick worn by the airline stewardesses."<p>It sounds as if the protestors, if the author is genuine, are protesting something I call "Singaporification." It's the fusion of authoritarian quasi-fascist rule with capitalism-- a kind of socially conservative, often (but not always) religious conservative, but economically neo-liberal state of affairs. On the surface it sometimes looks theocratic, but in reality it's more of a dictatorship of gentrification. Religious morality (or sometimes secularized versions thereof) is used as a facade to condemn any form of social deviancy and especially to mentally control the lower classes by manipulating their religious faiths.<p>(We see the latter in America with the "culture war," which is a way of distracting the largely-religious working classes while their future is sold out from under them.)<p>In conversations with fellow techies, it's disturbed me to what extent many seem to tacitly support this kind of thing. I've been in many conversations explicitly praising Singapore -- a country that permits death sentences for minor infractions -- as a viable model of the future.<p>The thing that makes Singaporification scary is that it works. The scariest dystopias are not hideous hellscapes where nobody would want to live, as those tend to self-destruct or at best persist in tiny enclaves and never catch on. Who would want to emulate North Korea? But seductive dystopias are dangerous because they <i>can</i> catch on. Who wouldn't want low crime, clean streets, and a wonderfully healthy economy? In that sense I find Singapore to be the scariest dystopia in the world today.<p>Historical precursors include Franco's Spain. Think of Singaporification as a gentler, less overtly violent form of Spanish fascism. But as we see if you openly challenge it, the gloves rapidly come off and your shiny clean utopia busts out the tanks, tear gas, and death penalty sentences.<p>Edit: on second thought, it also represents a fusion of liberal nanny-statism, conservative social authoritarianism, and neo-liberal economics. Government by and for the uptight, culturally xenophobic urban professional.<p>As Benjamin Franklin said: those who sacrifice liberty for security and prosperity deserve neither.<p>Worth watching: <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066434/" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066434/</a><p>"Buy, and be happy."<p>If action flicks are more your thing, this is a fun and a bit underrated riff on the same theme: <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/</a>
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manishsharanalmost 12 years ago
I have sympathy for the protesters but I do wish they had protested just as vehemently when the government began to silence the Press. A Free Press does not guarantee democracy but it does bark loudly and fiercely when it senses danger to the democracy.
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grigyalmost 12 years ago
Similar thing happened in Yerevan, Armenia last year, but in a smaller scale. Group of people protected a park from construction of boutiques. It took around 2 months and the government finally gave up. There is a wikipedia article covering the story: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashtots_Park_Movement" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashtots_Park_Movement</a>
kposehnalmost 12 years ago
What is currently going on in Turkey is the Islamist ruling party pushing hard to make the country much more conservative instead of secular, all the while pushing their way back into the Arab world to regain their clout and power.<p>The youths are protesting because what was once a fairly liberal set of standards is rapidly being removed.<p>Ironically, it was the military that protected this set of freedoms.
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fatiheriklialmost 12 years ago
Live cam from Taksim, Istanbul <a href="http://rt.com/on-air/turkey-protest-istanbul-park/" rel="nofollow">http://rt.com/on-air/turkey-protest-istanbul-park/</a>
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antiheroalmost 12 years ago
This is disgusting, the "right" to profit/property is the <i>least</i> important thing, it should <i>never</i> trump people's well-being or the environment.
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berkayalmost 12 years ago
One of the more hackernews relevant aspects of this event is the role of the media. Turkey has a very robust media, with dozens of TV stations and newspapers, yet there are no laws preventing the media from participating other commercial activities, or owning both newspapers and TV stations, etc. In fact, most of the media is owned by large corporations. Add to this the large role the government plays in the economy, it's almost inevitable that media is corrupt and avoids going against the government.<p>Even with that background, the reporting by the mainstream media about the events of the last couple of days has been a disgrace, and social media is filling the void.<p>The following is the most insightful analysis I've seen on this topic "Is there a Social-Media Fueled Protest Style? An Analysis From #jan25 to #geziparki "<a href="http://technosociology.org/?p=1255" rel="nofollow">http://technosociology.org/?p=1255</a>
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gueloalmost 12 years ago
<p><pre><code> "There is now a menace which is called Twitter," Erdogan said. "The best examples of lies can be found there. To me, social media is the worst menace to society." </code></pre> I've been surprised by the amount of control the government has over the media. I always thought of Turkey as being more liberal.
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cdwhitealmost 12 years ago
Hürriyet, a left-leaning English-language daily, is covering the protests (and Erdoğan's response, the resulting politicking, and so on): <a href="http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/</a><p>I should note that Hürriyet is historically quite unfriendly to Erdoğan; in particular (IIRC) it raised quite a bit of noise when Doğan Holdings, which owns Hürriyet, underwent tax fraud investigations that may have been politically motivated.
ykalmost 12 years ago
Can someone perhaps comment on the alleged use of agent orange? [1] From my limited knowledge of chemical weapons ( in lack of a better word), it is an deforestation chemical, and has no direct use for riot control. So currently my take is, that this is a rumor, since its use would better fit into the narrative than into a plausible police strategy.<p>[1] for example: <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/im_so_confused_can_someone_provide_a_clear_cut/caaggt6" rel="nofollow">http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1fi07t/im_so_conf...</a><p>(from saurik's comment)
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cjc1083almost 12 years ago
Tear gas and Water cannons are the best non-lethal methods for crowd control available... honestly I think the turkish police are doing a good a job at controlling this as possible.<p>All the media and reddit pictures are from the side of the protesters, a few pictures of people who get knocked in the head with a tear gas container != cops beating and shooting innocent people as they would have you believe.<p>Also from empirical evidence as an American who spent two weeks in Istanbul last year I've found the city and police to be totally welcoming and open ... to include bar crawls around taksim, walking 20 miles on foot through every nieghborhood in the city, to visiting some of the holiest artifacts in Islam at topkapi palace.<p>I'd like to see the other side of this... I understand the government has been culling the ranks of the top military to weaken their influence and push the Islamist agenda.. I do, but that said, turkey is not syria or iraq, it is a large cosmopolitan and wonderful country I would hate to see it destroyed.<p>Edit: I'll add for reference if it matters I'm a large, shaved headed and tattooed, obviously american man, who was a solo traveler.
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rthalmost 12 years ago
The folk need your support right now, may be tomorrow will be late. 30 minutes ago the president Erdogan gave a spech in television. He calling twitter "a piece of shit", because the folk organizing, talking about him and reality in twitter (for sure there is fake news also but if he did not bought the turkish media than we won't need twitter, twitter is only option for now), even his voters commenting on twitter, the politics people are unbelievable.<p>How to help: Even sending a picture, with your city name and a support message (even only a support message) may be will change his mind. Please send your tweet with support message and #direngeziparki #direnturkiye or #direnankara hash tags. (which means in order "resist gezi park", "resist turkey", "resist ankara". gezi park is the start point of the protest, Ankara is (the captial) city where cops hitting people right now)<p>Even writing in your language will help us to reach more people. You could write whatever you think about "fascism". For sure he got 50% vote, but it does not mean he will not listen the other 50%.
oakazalmost 12 years ago
Darth Vader entering the war zone: <a href="https://twitter.com/yigitkilinc7/status/341139175782891520/photo/1" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/yigitkilinc7/status/341139175782891520/p...</a>
juandopazoalmost 12 years ago
The New York Times reporting on Istanbul <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/world/europe/despite-protests-turkey-vows-to-push-ahead-with-plans-for-square.html?pagewanted=2&#38;_r=0&#38;ref=global-home&#38;pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/world/europe/despite-prote...</a>
Jun8almost 12 years ago
I've been following the events since the beginning (in fact I was there at the solitary meeting in Chicago yesterday: <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-local-demonstration-supports-turkey-protests-20130601,0,5732219.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-local-...</a>), so let me summarize what's been going on. However, if you have time to read just a single post, read this (<a href="http://technosociology.org/?p=1255" rel="nofollow">http://technosociology.org/?p=1255</a>) spot on analysis instead of my comment.<p>First, it's not an Istanbul thing anymore, many Turkish cities, especially Izmir and Ankara witnessed large protests and clashes with the police in the past couple of days.<p>On paper, this started with a small group of protesters sitting in the park to stop its demolition and cutting down the trees on Monday. That evening and at 5am on Tuesday morning they were violently attacked by the police. The attacks continued on Wednesday. The appalling police brutality unfortunately is nothing new in Turkey but this time it triggered an unexpected reaction from a wide swath of people.<p>People's discontent with AKP has been rising for some time, although they have provided a stable economy for the past 10 years. Some of the recent events have really notched it up, though, e.g.:<p>* The fact that government made no official plans to celebrate the May 19th holiday, which is an important day in the creation of the Turkish Republic (mirroring their approach to the October 29th holiday, which is like July 4th for Turkey)<p>* Lack of adequate response from PM Erdogan to the bombing in Reyhanli. Rather than cancel his visit to the US to visit the town, he went with his original plan. A lot of people thought that he brought such terrorist activities on Turkey due to his agressive rhetoric on Essad and his strong support of the dissidents there.<p>* The recent ban on the sale of alcohol between 10pm and 6am (<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/31/turkey-alcohol-laws-istanbul-nightlife" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/31/turkey-alcohol-l...</a>). This was an unheard-of move that angered a lot of people, not because Turkey consumes a lot of alcohol but it was interpreted as a step to the Islamic Law.<p>What really surprised me (and I witnessed many a protest and a few military coups there) was the exponential growth of the protest and its apolitical nature. Before, people used to write the usual leftist slogans on the walls, this time there were a lot of funny graffiti about Erdogan, the police and the pepper gas (examples at <a href="https://eksisozluk.com/gezi-parki-isgali-duvar-yazilari--3858340" rel="nofollow">https://eksisozluk.com/gezi-parki-isgali-duvar-yazilari--385...</a>, for Turkish readers).<p>Due to the wide use of social media there were some disinfomation as expected, spread around by excited people, e.g. that the police was using Agent Orange. This was due to the China-like complacency of the Turkish media. In fact, when CNN International was transmitting live from the riots in Istanbul CNN Turk was running a documentary about penguins! The reason for this is two-fold: the intimidation of reporters in the past 2-3 years (e.g. see the OdaTV case, where the owner of a TV station and reporters were swiftly jailed with scant evidence when they criticized the government: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/world/europe/soner-yalcin-owner-and-editor-of-odatv-freed-from-prison.html?_r=0" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/world/europe/soner-yalcin-...</a>). The other reason is the financial blackmail that the government exercises over large media conglomerates, e.g. when the Dogan group got a colossal $2.3B tax fine in 2009.
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joshuahedlundalmost 12 years ago
One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it<p>For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb)<p>This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more serious accounts of police aggression, or the simplifed context of things like "The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government". As another commenter has pointed out, even photos can end up being from unrelated events.<p>This is not to say that this person's perspective is not extremely important, or that the Turkish state is not committing indefensible acts of aggression. It's just harder for outsiders to piece together a full and accurate picture of what is happening. Fortunately, multiple individual perspectives can help corroborate and enhance the picture to quite a degree.<p>Edit: Certainly media has biases too, although there are at least in theory standards for verifying reported facts, and the bias is (often) more about what they choose not report or what context is not given.<p>Edit: good points by buro as well. This account and others may well be very reliable, I'm more speaking from experience with past events that were reported in similar ways where key important facts turned out to be wrong or missing. (I know, that happens sometimes in traditional media too)
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pknerdalmost 12 years ago
The funniest thing is that US is <i>worried</i> about protest. Ahem, someone should remind Administration about Occupy Wall Street and violent moves by Obama Administration.
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coverbandalmost 12 years ago
Let's shift the conversation _away from_ Singapore and towards what's happening in Turkey (not just Istanbul anymore, in fact, there have been many protests abroad in support).<p>The original protest was about the ruling party abusing their majority at the polls in such a way that they didn't feel bothered to listen to any opposing view or legitimate concern.<p>After the unjust and extremely heavy-handed police response, the original protest turned into something much larger, with new support from concerned regular citizens. In fact, since the police response has not become any better, some of the people that voted for the ruling party seem to have changed their positions in support of the protesters.<p>As a result, I think the Turkish PM lost whatever credibility he had abroad, along with his perceived role as a mediator for the Syrian conflict. I hope these demonstrations conclude in a peaceful way and cause Erdogan to rethink his (obviously limited) understanding of how democracy should work. If not, I'm afraid the country may not be able to hold off the fraction of the Turkish military that would want to step in and take over once again.
dougk16almost 12 years ago
Coincidentally, I've noticed the same thing happening in Szczecin, Poland as per the shopping mall phenomenon. I lived there from 2005-2008, and there were a few shopping malls, nothing crazy. Every 1-2 years I've gone back, there has been at least one or two new major shopping malls put up, and that's just in the few places I frequent around the city center.<p>Besides the philosophical question of whether it's a good thing for a city, I just don't understand the economics of it. How do all these places coexist? Where does the demand and up-front money come from? Is there actually real demand at all, or is it just completely manufactured/delusional (build it and they will come!)? When I lived there, people's shopping needs seemed fulfilled, and the population has flatlined since then [1]. I heard tell of some EU grants involved. Overall, it just doesn't seem sustainable from an economic perspective, even in the short-term.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.citypopulation.de/php/poland-zachodniopomorskie.php?cityid=3262011" rel="nofollow">http://www.citypopulation.de/php/poland-zachodniopomorskie.p...</a>
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beytialmost 12 years ago
main cause: block the destruction of a historical park<p>Thousands of people of all ages gathered without any formal notice, just by friend to friend, neighbour to neighbour; didn't allow provocation; resisted days of assault; assured the security of the park; almost all of the other big cities supported by protesting; protesters cleaned up their own mass, junks collected;<p>I guess this is a simple description without political adds.
CurtMonashalmost 12 years ago
There are a number of defended buildings &#38; complexes near Taksim. Consulates galore; a military hospital on Inonu Caddessi that has a bunch of sandbagged positions on it, along w/ more conventional guardposts; etc. And there's a military museum on the edge of the park, right next to where dozens of cats happily live.<p>Any of those places reporting troubles? Or is it all in the streets and park itself?
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mpowelalmost 12 years ago
Here are some links that may help you see what is happening in Istanbul... Turkey is turning into a viloent police state... Thats whats happening!<p><i></i>* Evidence collection site for police violence: <a href="http://delilimvar.tumblr.com/" rel="nofollow">http://delilimvar.tumblr.com/</a><p><i></i>* Police and pro-government militia attacking innocent people: <a href="http://pic.twitter.com/QTunT6irOF" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/QTunT6irOF</a><p><a href="http://f.cl.ly/items/263f2A3T0b093I2D0r2G/alsancak%2002.06.2013.mp4" rel="nofollow">http://f.cl.ly/items/263f2A3T0b093I2D0r2G/alsancak%2002.06.2...</a><p><a href="http://24.media.tumblr.com/339ecfc6a17e0d372896dcf1065672b6/tumblr_mns0nrMBPQ1su2tnjo1_500.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://24.media.tumblr.com/339ecfc6a17e0d372896dcf1065672b6/...</a><p><i></i>* Streets and residential areas indiscriminately turned into gas chambers: <a href="http://youtu.be/WaDT1KPEuB8" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/WaDT1KPEuB8</a><p><a href="http://pic.twitter.com/0RogcpOIUV" rel="nofollow">http://pic.twitter.com/0RogcpOIUV</a>
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AlphaSquaredalmost 12 years ago
A friend of mine who's currently honeymooning in Istanbul says the riots are mostly regarding the laws against the sale and use of alcohol........<p>Him and his wife were caught in the midst of a riot and teargassed. They saw tons of public urination and most of the protestors are 25 or younger and drunk + smashing beer glasses all over...
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cangenceralmost 12 years ago
There is a lot of misguided information floating around. I think this is the most objective article I've read so far. <a href="http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/06/istanbul-protests-who-are-protesters-turkey.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/06/istanbul-p...</a>
woodchuck64almost 12 years ago
&#62; The government is looking for (and creating when necessary) any excuse to attack Syria against its people’s will.<p>Wait, I thought Syria/Assad is the bad guy. The Turkish people support Assad but the Turkish government doesn't? Now I'm confused.
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mttsalmost 12 years ago
Ok. So how's about this. Istanbul is, and always has been, the most secular city in Turkey. Not Erdogan's base of power at all. Erdogan proposes to tear down a park near a location the inhabitants of Istanbul consider to be central to their identity as secular westerners (Taksim square). Revolt ensues, police reaction is excessive. Awful, of course, but hardly an event that will change the course of Turkish history.<p>Isn't this what is going on? Terrible if you're a native of Istanbul, but hardly something to worry about if you're one of the 50 million Turks that doesn't live in Istanbul and doesn't share that city's liberal standards?
brownbatalmost 12 years ago
So many questions...<p>How does a NIMBY protest turn into Tiananmen Square? Does someone in government actually say, "They don't want malls? THEN GIVE THEM TANKS!!!"<p>Why would a government that has "sold out to corporations" restrict the sale of lipstick and alcohol?
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yskchualmost 12 years ago
One from new yorker : <a href="http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/06/occupy-taksim-police-against-protesters-in-istanbul.html" rel="nofollow">http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/06/occupy-...</a>
jcritesalmost 12 years ago
I was curious to learn the current status, so I looked through Turkish news sites. According to Hurriyet Daily News, the project to demolish the park has been suspended:<p>"Court suspends planned Artillery Barracks project to replace Gezi Park. An administrative court has suspended the conversion project in the lung of Istanbul."<p><a href="http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/court-suspends-planned-artillery-barracks-project-to-replace-gezi-park.aspx?pageID=238&#38;nID=48006&#38;NewsCatID=341" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/court-suspends-planned-arti...</a>
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saejoxalmost 12 years ago
Many local shops are looted by the protestors. Cars turned, stones thrown etc... So much for peaceful a protest. Mayoral election is less than a year away. Protest with your votes, not your fists.
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cancanalmost 12 years ago
I also jotted down a couple words on the background to these protests if anyone is interested.<p><a href="http://duruk.net/turkish-protests-of-2013/" rel="nofollow">http://duruk.net/turkish-protests-of-2013/</a>
capkutayalmost 12 years ago
The situation is really unfortunate because its such a beautiful country and the young generation is pretty incredible. People are usually blown away by how beautiful Istanbul is, along with many other parts of the country.<p>What's worst is that Erdogan is a strong-arm leader who most likely won't be going away anytime soon. The best hope for these protesters is that the opposition party gets their act together, which I see no evidence of; they've had the same idiot running against Erdogan for as long as I can remember.
kolistivraalmost 12 years ago
"Twitter is the biggest headache of societies" ~Recep Tayyip Erdogan
ichinaskialmost 12 years ago
Some images: <a href="http://onedio.com/haber/gezi-parki-eyleminden-dehset-veren-fotograflar-116604" rel="nofollow">http://onedio.com/haber/gezi-parki-eyleminden-dehset-veren-f...</a>
kenster07almost 12 years ago
I am impressed by the arrogance of some of the commenters here, who seem to believe that they understand the totality and diversity of human nature and cultures.
izalmost 12 years ago
Stop lie about Turkey <a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLwbtR7CUAASWSe.jpg:large" rel="nofollow">https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLwbtR7CUAASWSe.jpg:large</a>
hik13almost 12 years ago
This is ridiculous. These synthetic news making to top of HN. Let me wrap up the situation very shortly: You know Ingress? That alternate reality game, yes. Scribbles like this are alternate reality too, so they have tie-ins with reality. But unlike Ingress, they are so far off from reality and so illogical; they are neither compelling nor fun! BTW, I'm writing this from the peaceful Turkey :)
bdaveralmost 12 years ago
Watch this : <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqIiWHMnM94" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqIiWHMnM94</a>
ankitmlalmost 12 years ago
Very less covered in India too - I see only firstpost having a story on this. Even the largest paper - TOI has not even mentioned turky on their homepage.<p><a href="http://www.firstpost.com/world/protesters-defiant-as-turkey-unrest-goes-into-third-day-834053.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.firstpost.com/world/protesters-defiant-as-turkey-...</a>
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nekojimaalmost 12 years ago
Two of the Facebook pages with continuous updates:<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/geziparkidirenisi" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/geziparkidirenisi</a> (330,000 Likes in less than 72 hours)<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/OccupyGezi" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/OccupyGezi</a>
oakazalmost 12 years ago
<a href="http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com" rel="nofollow">http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com</a><p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.459147254177879.1073741824.100002478261619&#38;type=1" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.459147254177879.10...</a>
hcarvalhoalvesalmost 12 years ago
I just hope Turkey doesn't end like another country where the people die in the hand of the government while the international community watch with their hands folded because it's on their best interest to destroy another muslin country - like Syria.
nanchalmost 12 years ago
Who specifically is responsible for the government's actions? What can we do to assist?
cdoohalmost 12 years ago
Aljezera has had this story in their line-up for a couple f days now, not sure what they said about it because I wasn't overly concerned. Nothing on BBC though. So atleast one international news organisation is getting the word out.
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ajaysalmost 12 years ago
To follow along, there's also Flickr and a search for "Istanbul" and "Gezi" : <a href="https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=istanbul+gezi&#38;s=rec" rel="nofollow">https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=istanbul+gezi&#38;s=rec</a>
joeblaualmost 12 years ago
Thanks for filling me in. I was walking down Market Street yesterday and about 100 people were protesting with signs. I couldn't understand what they were saying nor could I read their signs as most weren't in English.
yekkoalmost 12 years ago
It's civil unrest, with an upgrade to civil war, revolution possible.
pknerdalmost 12 years ago
By the way, can anyone tell me how a <i>Revolution</i> or occupation anywhere in the world has any link with <i>Hacking</i> that the news featured on HN?
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drac89almost 12 years ago
<a href="http://showdiscontent.com" rel="nofollow">http://showdiscontent.com</a> --- here is some pictures about what happening..
saurabhnandaalmost 12 years ago
Why don't people identify the policemen and make their social life (outside of their police duty) a living hell. Bully their kids in school, boycott their spouses, refuse to do any kind of business with them (no groceries, no milk, etc.)<p>At some point people have to be held personally responsible for their wrong doings. They shouldn't be absolved of personal responsibility just because they're in the police force, which is being commanded by some nutcrack dictator.
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shnalmost 12 years ago
This article is grossly misleading. Papers and televisions are showing what is going on, one can read from internet, and express his opinion. Turkey is a democracy with multi party system similar to France since 1946. Unfortunately the minority group who held the power in Turkey for decades lost their control of most of the government and state after years of corruption with 2002 elections. In 2001 Turkish economy experienced a similar economic meltdown after a "soft" coup of the people who support and make the current demonstrations. The economic repercussions was so deep it effected almost everyone similar to what has been going on in Greece and Spain. Since then the new government handled economy and democratic process so well, even in the current terrible economic situation of the world Turkey managed to become the fastest growing economy in Europe. Turkey has made the last debt payment to IMF couple of weeks ago. For the first time her existence Turkish economy's credit rating became investment grade by Moody's on May 17th this year[1]. Most importantly the clash with the Kurdish minority ended with a new peace process. This is by far the most important achievement of the current government given the 30 years of history of violence in South Easy of Turkey. Over 40K people have died since it started in 1980.<p>The person who wrote this article and those demonstrators are hoping to show their anger towards the government akin to Egypt's Tahrir Square demonstrations. However this is all reading it backwards. Current government is popularly supported by the people and the support has increased with each consecutive poll since 2002, leading to 50% [3] of the popular vote the last time. This government is leading a commission and effort to write a new constituition to raise the standards of human rights in Turkey. This is one of the biggest selling point to end the Kurdish violence since they now feel their rights will be protected better in the future. Current constitution is put together in 1980 by the people who engineered the last "hard" coup in Turkey [5], a coup literally executed with brute force, guns and tanks. With this government the efforts to get into EU increased tremendously [6] and actually it has been their strategy to balance the power in Turkey against Military's long standing anti-democratic ambitions and practices.<p>Recent demonstrations at a park in Istanbul got bigger by exploiting the grossly wrong police brutality. Unfortunately where there is demonstration be it in US [7], Spain [8] or Greece [9], in any country the police is very heavy handed. Otherwise the park that is in middle of the city is part of project [10] that will transform the area and close all the motor vehicle traffic and allow only pedestrians. This is going to be done by diverting traffic to underground roads that will be build as part of the project. Decision for the project taken by the people who was elected including members both from ruling and opposition party, and was voted unanimously.<p>Author of this article and those demonstrators are supporting the old regime. A regime that dictates certain ideology build around a cult leader like the ones in former Soviet Union, China and North Korea. Ours is Ataturk. You have to think like them, act like them, speak like them, live like them. During my mandatory military service I was forced to memorize who is Ataturk which was a list of 10 items that goes like this: 1) Ataturk was the best person in the world 2) Ataturk was best statesman in the world 3) Ataturk is the best military leader in the world. And thise list goes on and on...<p>Let me give you an example of what this people againts. Can you buy liquor after certain hours in States? Can you walk with an open beer can, alcohol bottle? No, because in States, varying by state, shops can not sell alcohol after 10pm or 2am. For example in England even places where liquor served as part of the service has to close by 1am. When this government made a similar, banning sale of alchol from 10pm to 6am, these people made a big noise. This is one of the arguments they have been telling during these demonstrations.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/turkey-raised-to-investment-grade-by-moody-s-on-debt-cuts.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-16/turkey-raised-to-in...</a> [2] <a href="http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/04/25/turkey-justice-central-kurdish-peace-process" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/04/25/turkey-justice-central-ku...</a> [3] <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13740147" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13740147</a> [4] <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-10/turkey-s-kurtulmus-sets-july-deadline-for-new-constitution.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-10/turkey-s-kurtulmus-...</a> [5] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%C3%A9tat" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%C3%A9tat</a> [6] <a href="http://www.cfr.org/turkey/turkeys-eu-bid/p8939" rel="nofollow">http://www.cfr.org/turkey/turkeys-eu-bid/p8939</a> [7] <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Davis-pepper-sprayed-students-settle-3896116.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Davis-pepper-spraye...</a> [8] <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/29/spain-riot-police" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/29/spain-riot-polic...</a> [9] <a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/greek-police-brutality-2011-6" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessinsider.com/greek-police-brutality-2011-6</a> [10] <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opean5HeR-8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opean5HeR-8</a>
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protolifalmost 12 years ago
Turkey doesn't fluoridate their water. Just sayin'. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country</a>
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yasonalmost 12 years ago
Who says city planning isn't a big deal?
AlexeiSadeskialmost 12 years ago
&#62; Control over the decisions I make concerning my on my body<p>It's nice to see that the fight against heroin prohibition is being fought in Turkey too!
LoonaSezzalmost 12 years ago
nice
monsterixalmost 12 years ago
&#62; Two young people were run over by the tanks and were killed.<p>That is extremely serious. My condolences with those who lost their lives, and best wishes for your friend to recover from her injury.<p>While we all discuss and throw ourselves around when a dying industry (read Hollywood) misbehaves and tries to screw with our Internet freedoms, free speech etc. I wonder what would when happen when the same fate, and it is coming, falls on the Governments of the world.<p>A dying model of Governance could take things to a rather unprecedented level of nastiness and cruelty.
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thoughtcriminalalmost 12 years ago
The tearing down of trees for commercial and residential areas is happening here too. It's called urban sprawl. Land developers wipe out natural habitats like forests and leave sterile, artificial suburbs and plazas in its stead.<p>Most citizens never hear about it until it's too late because it's not easy to find out about the latest zonings. Trying to have a say in the process? Well, that's a whole new level of obfuscation.<p>The process is confusing for a reason: to keep concerned citizens like you and me out.<p>What is happening in Istanbul is happening here too.
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kmastersalmost 12 years ago
Im confused by the use of the occupy lingo. Is occupy just a meme now for any protest?
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spcsalmost 12 years ago
This was a posted by a friend on Facebook:<p>Since I see that some friends have got excited about the recent events in Turkey I decided to write something about it and provide some context. I think it is good to know a bit of history of Turkey before AKP to understand what is going on there. It has been more than 10 years that AKP is in power so people might not know or may have forgotten the situation before AKP.<p>Turkey was ruled by ultra-nationalist ultra-secular militarist groups for decades. The military overthrow several elected governments and jailed politicians. Torture, extra-judicial killings, suppression, and corruption were widespread. The laws that people often object to are from that area and the constitution written by Turkish military, including insulting Turkishness being a crime. These groups who are sometimes referred to as Kemalists had the control of military, judicatory, academia, media, etc. Yet, they couldn't tolerate even the government being in the hands of people they didn't like. The large majority of Turks who are practicing Muslims were excluded. It was illegal to wear a head-scarf in universities and government departments in a country where over 70% of women wears head-scarf. Essentially these women were banned from attending university. Public officials and even university professors would be thrown out and even jailed if they showed any sign of nonsecular tendency. Writers and intellects were jailed for expressing opinions against Kemalist ideology. Erdogan, the current prime minister was jailed and banned from politics for 10 years for reading an old poem while he was the mayor of Istanbul. The existence of Kurds who are around 20 percent of Turkey's population were completely denied (not a joke)! Speaking or reading in Kurdish was banned and the popular Turkish singer Ahmad Kaya was forced to exile for saying that he will record an album in Kurdish. Popular political parties were closed regularly even when they won elections decisively. The news of corruption in police and politics was a regular daily routine as was the news of human rights violations.<p>In the years before AKP there were several short-lived governments by parties both on the left and on the right. Inflation was very high (hyperinflation), unemployment was high, governments were unstable. The value of Turkish lira dropped to a third in one night. Nightly interest rates tripled to completely ridiculous amount of 139%. You can look at Greece these days to have an idea of Turkey of that time. Turkish foreign policy was essentially dictated by the US government. There was a very harsh IMF imposed economic program so Turkey could pay its debts and a technocrat from world bank was imposed as the economy minister on the Turkish government to make sure they will implement what IMF wanted. The government and the country were in such a bad shape that it is almost unimaginable today after 12 years of AKP.<p>AKP was formed at that time. Erdogan was still under the ban from politics as well as many prominent politicians from his previous party. But some other politicians from the party were not under the ban. They created a new party: AKP (Justice and Development Party). Its members were moderate and pragmatist politicians from the banned party plus several other pragmatist and moderates from other right of the center parties. The current Turkish President Gul became the head of the party though Erdogan was significantly involved behind the senses. The party won a landslide election and has been continuously doing so for over a decade, increasing its share of votes in every election. You have to know that the length of Turkish governments before AKP to get a feeling of its significance: a few months!<p>Over a decade AKP has modernized Turkey, removed many of the laws that EU objected to, fought corruption in police and politics, improved the economy to its current amazing state, forced military out of politics, ... Until Syrian crises it had perfect relations with its neighbors. It followed what I would consider an awesome independent foreign policy. It is trying to find a political solution to the Kurdish "problem" and the right of Kurds have improved significantly under AKP. The list of AKP's achievements can go on.<p>So what is the problem? The problem is that the support base of AKP is not the western oriented seculars, it is the conservative majority who didn't have a voice in politics for decades (the silent majority) as the Kemalist and what Turks call "Deep Government" didn't allow the political parties supported by them. In all elections AKP has lost in the touristic Mediterranean coastal cities and European parts. You can find the map of the last general election results here:<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_general_election,_2011" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_general_election,_2011</a><p>Yellow is AKP, red is CHP, and light green is MHP. The south eastern parts are Kurdish areas where independent Kurdish politicians won.<p>The protests that you see these days are by this secular minority who has been voting for CHP (around 25%, significant, but still a minority).<p>Now, what are these alternative parties?<p>MHP is an ultra-nationalist racist conservative far-right party. Look up Wikipedia if you want to know more about them.<p>CHP is the party of the founder of the Turkey, ruled Turkey for decades in a one-party system, is a Kemalist party. It had strong relations with Turkish military, right now it is essentially the party supported by the elite who ruled Turkey before AKP and their supporters. The elite tried to topple AKP government undemocratically. Try to see if they objected to continuous serious violations of human rights before AKP.<p>Obviously I don't agree with everything that AKP and Erdogan do. However, AKP (and Erdogan) is definitely the best thing that has happened to Turkey over many decades, and Turks know it. That is the reason AKP keeps increasing its share of vote in elections. They are creating a strong developed democratic lawful independent Turkey. When you hear about protests in Turkey against AKP and Erdogan being authoritarian it is good to remember this context.<p>One final thing: AKP is often criticized for ignoring secular Turkish citizens who have not voted for AKP. Watch Erdogan's victory speech after winning the last election in which AKP further increased its share of votes. His attitude was completely humble and reconciliatory.<p>The problem, in my humble opinion, is not Erdogan and AKP being arrogant and authoritarian, but rather the secular minority demanding more than their fair share. I mean they objected to the removal of the ban on head-scarves for students attending university and consider it Islamization of Turkey (a country where over 70% of women wears head-scarf).
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mtgxalmost 12 years ago
Is Facebook the one blocking the occupygezi pages or is it the government somehow?
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pknerdalmost 12 years ago
Another <i>sponsored</i> revolution.
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