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Facebook is just fine

147 pointsby cmodalmost 12 years ago

27 comments

jmdukealmost 12 years ago
I feel like people on HN just want Facebook to fail. (Or be "disrupted.")<p>Facebook lets me chat with my girlfriend, my grandparents, and my college roommate all at the same time. It lets me upload pictures of my new apartment for people to see. It lets me comment with a bunch of other angry misanthropes about how the Heat are gonna blow it this year. Until another service lets me do that in one browser tab, I'm fine with sticking with Facebook.<p>(I notice a huge correlation, too, with people's feelings about Facebook and people's level of extroversion/social aptitude in general. I think some people, website or no website, are going to want to keep to themselves -- and no app is ever going to change that.)
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grandalfalmost 12 years ago
My facebook feed is mostly spam. Mostly app ads and very lame things that distant acquaintances have liked.<p>Facebook ignores the people who I tend to "like". It ignores the profiles I look at periodically. It ignores the people who I message with.<p>Facebook forgets which setting I prefer (most recent vs most popular) again and again.<p>Facebook shows me the same annoying ads again and again even though I don't click on them and spend no time hovering over them in the mobile app.<p>Facebook knows that I continue to log in at least twice a day and that rarely is there any new information for me, since my friends have all drastically curtailed their facebook usage.<p>I think it's too late. Soon the habit of checking facebook will disappear.<p>My advice. Remove the ads immediately, create different experiences for people with 100 friends vs 300 vs 500 vs 1000 vs 3000. Don't ever show the same spammy stuff twice unless the recipient likes it. The fact that my distant high school acquaintance likes Samsung is of ZERO value to me and frankly it's incredibly annoying to be told about the major corporations that distant acquaintances have clicked the like button about again and again and again.<p>Today I got an email with stuff I "missed" on Facebook. This makes me think that Facebook is dying. Just take the advice in the above paragraph and restore it to its previously useful state.
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tokenadultalmost 12 years ago
I see that now we are going to have debates among different columnists who write for medium.com, which may spice up the content a bit. I agree with this author more than I agreed with the last author, who wrote decrying Facebook. Sure, I have been careful to select friends for their capacity to maintain civil, thoughtful conversation, but now that I have a circle of friends like that, living in countries around the world, Facebook is a convenient medium for all of us to have conversations on. I like Facebook because I see my friends there.<p>I have written before here on Hacker News, "Facebook will go the way of AOL, still being a factor in the industry years from now, but also serving as an example of a company that could never monetize up to the level of the hype surrounding it." I used to see friends on AOL. I never felt an obligation to help AOL monetize just because of that. Networks are a dime a dozen. Right now, Facebook is a very convenient network, and I like it. I do not predict that Facebook will make a lot of money because of users like me.
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dvtalmost 12 years ago
The crux of the essay is the following:<p>&#62; Facebook keeps me connected to folks I care deeply about who aren’t nearby.<p>As soon as I saw it, I said to myself: "boy oh boy, he better give some hard evidence." The article goes on even without providing <i>anecdotal</i> evidence, let alone anything to the extent I was expecting or hoping. In fact, the entire discussion seems to be about the hiding feature. Yeah, everyone knows about it (and more and more people are using it), but I'm not sure how using a destructive feature of a service makes the service <i>more</i> necessary (I would argue for the opposite). If I hide 90% of my "friends" from my feed, for example, what's the point of Facebook? Apart from the ego-boosting friend-count (which I might also hide).<p>Now, going back to the initial (bolded!) argument: <i>Facebook keeps me connected to folks I care deeply about who aren’t nearby.</i> I think that this is just simply not true. Of course, a definition of "care deeply" would be needed, but my assumption here is that we're talking about moms, dads, sisters, brothers, aunts, BFFs, and the like -- NOT ex-girlfriends/boyfriends or classmates from high school that helped us out that one time on that one biology project in freshman year. If I only contacted my mom or dad through Facebook, my parents would first of all be quite mad -- and second of all, our relationship would suffer. People that I <i>care deeply</i> about get emails, phone calls, Skype calls, text messages, sometimes even snail-mail from me! I'm not sure how the OP expects us to connect Facebook to "caring deeply." Again, some evidence (or an actual argument) would've been nice.<p>I don't hate Facebook, but more often than not, I find myself just using it when I'm bored and semi-creeping around seeing what X or Y is up to and randomly clicking on that "cute girl that's a friend of a friend of a friend" (incidentally, this is what most people use it for). "Creeping on Facebook," has in fact, become a relatively common colloquialism; I wouldn't even attribute a negative quality to the idea, but I <i>would</i> argue it's a fundamental failure of FB (and something that should capitalize on). I posted about this before, but I really believe that the next "big social thing" will be a start-up that will somehow make it easy to approach people you don't know and spark up a conversation. There are <i>so many</i> people on FB, and yet most of us hide 90% of the people we're friends with and we don't add the ones we might find interesting but don't know. That doesn't seem "just fine" to me.<p>Oh yeah, go ahead and add me on Facebook.
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jonathanjaegeralmost 12 years ago
A million times this. Curate your feed for content ('like' good pages) and hide those 'friends' you're not interested in.<p>What other place can you chat easily with friends far away, find a last minute ticket for a concert from someone who has an online identity without paying scalper prices, find out an old friend moved to your area, keep in touch with the masses who connect with you for other reasons (e.g. I run a music community and chat with users on Facebook sometimes), and the list goes on. Show me more ads, I don't care! They're not horrible popups and the News Feed ones are only somewhat intrusive.
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nullcalmost 12 years ago
I must confess to giggling at the authors examples of 'signal':<p>&#62; "Lots of signal. Lots of friends becoming parents.<p>&#62; Getting engaged. Couples falling in love. Babies. [...]<p>&#62; Friends and acquaintances off on adventures. Beautiful<p>&#62; mountain photos [...] Family outings. [...] orphanage<p>&#62; a good friend of mine runs in Nepal. [...] updates on<p>&#62; the dog back home on the east coast"<p>All that stuff sounds like the expected output of a random human condition generator. Knowing those things wouldn't change my life at all. I trust that that kind of stuff is happening all on its own without having to take any of my attention.<p>Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. However, I suspect he may be missing the mark because the audience he's addressing with his "just use hide!" may well be like me and find all that stuff inane. 'Use hide to reveal the signal under the noise' doesn't work when there is no signal.
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sergiotapiaalmost 12 years ago
I agree completely with this cat. Maybe it's because I use Facebook from Bolivia and ads aren't really shown down here (no market?), but almost of my timeline posts are nice to see. I also hide dumb, annoying and negative people but keep them as a friend to avoid hurting feelings.<p>I get to talk to my immediate family instantly from anywhere in the city, laptop or mobile phone - what other free service does that?<p>Facebook isn't terrible, naysayers are just hipsters wanting to hate on something popular.
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shmerlalmost 12 years ago
<i>&#62; Facebook is just fine.... That’s crazy, right? I mean, Facebook is just a personal data farm, isn’t it? It’s just a not-too-coy set of dopamine-optimized actions to trick you into dumping information about yourself into the magic Zucker Woodchipper?... I’m not denying any of this. It is an ad machine, in part. But that doesn’t mean Facebook can’t also provide value.</i><p>The fact that it provides value doesn't make it fine. The criticism of Facebook is not about the value it provides, but about the cost they charge for it. That cost is users' privacy.<p>Fine social network should serve the purpose of social interactions without ulterior motives of some hidden entities which profit on users' data. You can't practically achieve that with such centralized social networks, and decentralized design makes it more feasible.
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igorguealmost 12 years ago
What the heck is is he talking about?<p>This is facebook, 28 of 29 posts are about pages I liked or pages talking about pages I like (yeap, like I care about Lakers Nation talking about LeBron James).<p>I can't share anything there either because some of my friends and family get offended by my views (atheist, anarchist, pro-drugs).<p>I could create lists, but who has time for that? I rather just use leaser known social networks like Vine and Snapchat where the people are more open minded.
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shaneljaalmost 12 years ago
I really don't understand the anti-facebook nature of HN users, personally I think it's a fantastic product, it perfectly fulfills my use case.<p>I'm 20 years old, I feel that's somehow relevant before I give my long list of anecdotes.<p>When I woke up this morning, I checked my feed, 3 notifications! The first (ranked by importance of course) was that one of my cousins was pregnant. She lives in Spain, I'm the only member of my family in the UK, how would I otherwise have found out? Snail mail? Pah! Takes too long and my address isn't always static for longer than a few months. Phone? Really? Do you know how much international calls cost when you aren't on a Silly Valley wage?! <i>E-Mail? ... Do people actually still do the whole E-Mail thing? And isn't E-Mail completely broken anyway?</i><p>The second was a party event my friend was throwing and had invited me too this weekend, it took one click and now I know all about it, I accepted and left a message.<p>So in 30 seconds on one application, I've discovered my cousin is going to have a baby, congratulated her and let her know that I "like" this outcome, told my friend I'm cool to hang out this weekend and asked him if he wants to go halves on a Pizza Saturday.<p>Last night I used it to talk over video with my grandma who's been ill recently (and also coincidentally lives abroad) because she doesn't know what a Skoop (Skype) is and MSN no longer exists, but Facebook is still here, she's already on it and she uses it frequently.<p>After this I checked up on my company feed to look at photos of my co-workers birthday party and the comments on the photo I took (and uploaded in seconds to the internet after applying filters to make him prettier) of him opening his presents.<p>I literally just got out of bed and I have a message already from my girlfriend (who's out of texts) asking me what we're doing tonight, I've told her it's a surprise and send her a photo to give her a clue.<p><i>Anyway...</i><p>The point of this is that while you may detest Facebook for whatever privacy issues you may have (and lets face it, other companies such as our beloved Google are often much, much worse) it is a fantastic application making it easier than ever to connect to the people who I actually care about (for the record, I only keep 40 friends on there), if perhaps a little out of <i>your</i> particular use case.
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tezkaalmost 12 years ago
Facebook works for me very well because I don't quite use the news feed as a social networking feed. I have changed its push model to a pull model. That means, I have pretty much hidden all of my friends and use the news feed to only read updates from magazines and pages I am interested in. I however visit people's profile that I am reminded of every now and then to see whats going on with their lives. The closer I am to someone the more frequent her/his profile gets a visit. To make this tractable, I every few months go through a round of deleting people I don't care about (like someone I've met for a few minutes and I am sure I will not see again, or if I do I will mostly likely pretend I don't know the person).
tomasienalmost 12 years ago
"Facebook keeps me connected to folks I care deeply about who aren’t nearby."<p>He goes on to explain the way in which it works for him, but that's the point. I, for example, don't do anything but see my stream without much hiding and I love it. I love seeing why my friends having going on, I love the weird swath of reactions and conversations, I love it. Hell, I love that my aunt bothers me on Facebook all the time, I would never talk to her otherwise! It's not everything to everyone, but it's a REALLY important thing to a REALLY huge amount of people.<p>It could die. Mobile (or other things) could kill it, I don't deny that, but it's great. Long live Facebook, until something does what it does better.
Zigurdalmost 12 years ago
Of course Facebook is fine, no matter what HN readers think of it. I suspect I'm typical in minimizing my Facebook use because, if for no more serious reason, too many instances of a Facebook "app" spamming my contact list.<p>And yet, I almost certainly count among Facebook's monthly active users. I cross-post to Facebook. I have family that doesn't grok Google+. There are even business contacts that prefer Facebook to LinkedIn for whatever reasons.<p>That might make the value of many Facebook users very low, but as long as Facebook doesn't stagnate technologically, it's more than just viable.
zapharalmost 12 years ago
I left facebook because I was tired of continually curating their email notifications. I would clean it all up and then boom something would change and I have to wade through their settings again and turn off more stuff.<p>I don't <i>want</i> to ruthlessly curate my social network feed. It killed the enjoyment for me so I left. Now I get a curated rundown from my wife so I guess in a way I still have facebook but someone else is doing the curation for me.<p>I wonder if there's a product idea there?
alphangalmost 12 years ago
I do not agree that having to hide friends so you get a curated News Feed really works. For me, this is a lot of work just to get Facebook back as a fun product again - and FB doesn't really provide great, painless tools for curating your feed. (I'd love a dashboard and power-user shortcuts)<p>But even if your News Feed looks great, the other side of controlling your FB experience is How You Share. Sure, we can all create lists for our families and faraway friends and acquaintances — but trust and relationships evolve, and pretty soon you're fiddling with "+Family -AuntJenny +HighSchool -Amanda" just for one little post about your relationship status.<p>You can deal with this by unfriending or self-censoring yourself, but it's really not fun to hold your tongue, and there's a social cost to unfriending.<p>The author is probably right that "Facebook is fine", if you put enough work into it. But depending on your comfort level, this can mean <i>a lot</i> of work. So the questions are 1) is this really a user error, or a problem with the product? and 2) how can Facebook improve this area? and 3) is it even in Facebook's interest to go down this path?
brown9-2almost 12 years ago
I tend to hide people whose updates are annoying yet I don't want to unfriend as well, but one thing that strikes me as weird about this arrangement is that I have essentially set up a one-way sharing relationship with this person - this person whom I've probably forgot about can see whatever I post, but I'm ignoring all signs of their existence on the news feed.<p>To me, that's why this strategy doesn't really seem scalable.
ultimooalmost 12 years ago
I'm really shy about sharing stuff on facebook. Maybe because of the number of highschool and college folks I have friended there.<p>So basically I'm a 'scroller' (I have a 20yo real life friend who called me this term offline).<p>I do go to facebook to scroll once every couple of days and it is interesting. I'm just happy that people aren't as shy as I when it comes to posting updates and uploading photos etc.
trustfundbabyalmost 12 years ago
I think the "hiding" process is a bit too heavy handed, what I'd like to see is a dislike button that <i></i>only affects your feed<i></i>. So a person would never actually see that you disliked their post, but facebook could use that data privately to help you curate you feed. If you keep disliking someone's posts (and possibly even comments) facebook would show you less and less of them until they were completely gone from your news feed ...<p>Not sure it would work so well in light of a recent article on here (I think) that showed that people in social networks like/upvote things and order of magnitude more than they dislike/flag things, but I think it would be interesting to try.
alan_cxalmost 12 years ago
Given that people seem not to care that much that government is spying on them to an industrial level, why would the masses care one jot about the bad side of facebook, which is broadly privacy concerns?
avalaunchalmost 12 years ago
The problem I have with the hiding strategy is that nobody in my network of friends and family is producing 100% signal and nobody is producing 100% noise. If I hide all users that ever produce noise I end up with an empty feed. I need a better way of cutting through the noise - preferably an algorithm that does it for me.<p>The other problem I have is that I don't feel comfortable posting all of my thoughts to all of my friends and family. I could create lists but that really is a pain.
rfatnabayeffalmost 12 years ago
There is a proverb in Russia (actually, it's a quote): "There're someone for whom even a mare is a fine bride". So, it's not surprising that for someone Facebook is fine too.
bowerbirdalmost 12 years ago
craig mod says:<p>&#62; If you are overtly negative<p>&#62; (which is different than<p>&#62; having opinions differing from my own),<p>&#62; you get hidden.<p>i didn't know who was writing this when i first read it.<p>but i still chuckled when i came across that sentence...<p>and when i looked and it was _craig_mod_, i laughed at loud.<p>because it's "just fine" if you disagree with craig mod, just as long as you kiss his ass while you're doing it.<p>otherwise, he will peg you as "overtly negative"...<p>-bowerbird
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abalashovalmost 12 years ago
<i>(Hiding from newsfeed, it should be noted, is different from unfriending — they’ll never know.)</i><p>Well, they will know, because you never, ever like or comment on their stuff, like ever. :-)
United857almost 12 years ago
The author should try Path. The use case is what the author wants, a more limited FB with just his close friends and quality original content.
soup10almost 12 years ago
Anyone else read the post and take an immediate dislike to the guy? Maybe it's the new yorker in me, but hiding people who exude negativity? Cynicism is cherished way of life for some people sir. Also why do you like baby pictures so much, ugh.<p>Why the passive aggression? just unfriend people you don't like.<p>What else? Who honestly cares that much about inane facebook posts that they feel more connected. <i>shrug</i>
suredoalmost 12 years ago
Hiding what most people post on Facebook is how I spend a minimum amount of time on Facebook too..
edwardunknownalmost 12 years ago
It's not an ad machine, it stores your face and personal information and that data will be sold as a service as soon as things start to look bad for them. Nobody cares about personalized ads on the internet, they care that in a few years they'll be walking down the street and with just a camera and a computer anybody who's willing to pay will know everything about them.