Maybe they were trying to appeal to me. Knowing that I'd be working with women and people from different cultures holds great appeal to someone who is sick of and uncomfortable in 100% bro environments. I lean towards thinking that was actually their intention, due to the mention of "frontend/<i>backend</i>" making sure that we know that the women they have are not all designers.<p>Of course, it's as inappropriate to advertise explicitly as "we have three blacks, and two hispanics!" would be. How do you advertise and get credit for creating a diverse workplace? Maybe a collaborative blog w/pictures above every blogpost? A tiny company can't get away with sponsoring "cultural" events, like the large ones do.
> Notice which of those things is not like the others? That’s right, number eight appears to be placing female employees on roughly the same level a jar of chocolate eclairs.<p>Well - no.<p>You could interpret it as signaling that it is a fun and diverse work place. But that wouldn't make for good Two Minutes Hate.
As always, it's how it's presented that matters.<p>I always ask for general demographic information when I interview with a company. It isn't about being sexist (well maybe it is against men)... I just don't want to work with a bunch of mid-20s white males. Not enough diversity of thought.<p>Disclosure: I'm a mid-20s white male.
No, it's giving tech a bad name. Maybe as part of the whole "mentoring" thing angles and VCs give a start up, making sure the CEO doesn't post dumb sh*t like this in the first place (12+ experience need not apply) would go a long ways to helping the company not become a laughing stock. I mean, really, who is going to work at these companies?
The apology and aggressively calling out people criticizing them in blog/asrticle comments is particularly egregious as well - from both a "doing the right thing" perspective and from "stop digging the hole deeper" perspective.<p>Apology here: <a href="http://evvnt.com/2013/07/i-love-ruby-an-equal-opportunity-employer/" rel="nofollow">http://evvnt.com/2013/07/i-love-ruby-an-equal-opportunity-em...</a>
Sometimes I wonder if all this shit directed towards Rubyists is actually caused by asshole MBAs.
Richard Green isn't a developer.<p>Business Development
Global Partnership
Sales & Marketing
Strategist
Business Analyst
European Sales<p>Besides, his entire fuck post smells of asshole MBA.
This has got nothing to do with ruby other than the fact that they are looking for ruby developers on its mailing list . The title seems link baity IMHO.<p>But I am against adding women as a job perk.
Their [evvnt's] responses are even more confusing than the original post (<a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/07/women-offered-perks-job-ad#comment-964234122" rel="nofollow">http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/07/women-offered-...</a>). It almost seems like there is some sort of english language issue here. I can't even be sure what they were trying to accomplish. Whatever it was they got it so very wrong.<p>Another reply: <a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/07/women-offered-perks-job-ad#comment-964196339" rel="nofollow">http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/07/women-offered-...</a><p>Edit: After reading their confounding responses it almost seems as if they were <i>literally asking</i> people what "perks" where most important to them. Kind of the way social media marketers suggest you word Facebook posts as questions to prompt engagement. I honestly can't imagine how someone can be this naive.<p>Their ongoing response to criticism on Twitter is mindblowing. I really am at a loss to understand how anyone can be this foolish.<p><a href="https://twitter.com/evvnt/status/357120127113773056" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/evvnt/status/357120127113773056</a><p>Also this is the original article: <a href="http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/07/women-offered-perks-job-ad" rel="nofollow">http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/07/women-offered-...</a>
I don't get it. Of course having women coworkers is a positive signal in a field dominated by males, and can certainly factor into a job decision.
I think this is a case of unfortunate wording that leaves the wrong impression. My take on that "perk" is that the meaning that was intended is something like: "we have a gender diverse work place and have hired 4 awesome woman engineers! this is a great perk because these women kick ass and its a privilege to work with them."<p>but of course, those words weren't used. they probably should have been rather than the words that did appear.
This seems like a misunderstanding to me. People saying that it's comparing women to eclairs need to read the rest of the list. If that's the case they're also comparing "commission from online sales" to eclairs and "30 days paid holiday" to a coffee machine.<p>There are serious gender inequality issues in our industry that need to be addressed. This isn't it.
For everyone trying to gloss this as a flawed attempt to establish a diverse workplace, here's how to do it:<p>1. Take it out of the list that is captioned "Let me know which of the following would tempt you from you desk…"<p>2. Instead, try something like "We are committed to a diverse workplace sharing in the strengths of many points of view."
The way I understand it, he was trying to state (in a clumsy way) what kind of team they have. Indicating that it's technical staff does not consist only of men.
I responded on the mailing list.<p><a href="http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2013-July/009141.html" rel="nofollow">http://lists.lrug.org/pipermail/chat-lrug.org/2013-July/0091...</a>
The linked post does not even suggest that Ruby name or the Ruby community is in any way the issue here. It just happened on a Ruby mailing list. Period.<p>So why is this posted under this title?
I'm not a big fan of this title - while this is an ugly, immature job posting, I certainly hope it doesn't reflect at all on the Ruby community.
Ah, this is really cute. Lamenting lack of acknowledgement of women in tech, but (crazy internet lady) DAMNED IF ANYBODY DARES TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE WORKING WITH WOMEN IS A DESIRABLE SITUATION!<p>Above all, these "perks" sound a bit like they are addressed more at attracting potential female employees.
Is there some kind of elaborate joke going on in here? Or are you people incapable of reading a simple text?<p>You don't advertise a diverse environment with "4X female french, italian and spanish junior". It can be stupidity or a lack of understanding of the English language (if you're feeling like justifying it) or just plain gender discrimination and a really sexist statement to make.<p>Anyway, not much more can be expected from a job posting that seems targeted to 12 year olds.
Overreact much?<p>The tone of the post is informal and is intended to be humorous. If there is a good balance of male/female coders there, there's a good chance one of the women saw it and thought it was funny. One of them might have even written it.<p>For many programmers, I'm sure it is a perk to be around more women. They work in a completely male dominated field. The changes of meeting a potential partner who shares your interests at work is low.
I'm not sure why a startup CEO making a sexist job post looking for Ruby devs in a Ruby forum should give <i>Ruby</i> a bad name, more than, say, (in decreasing order of relevance), the particular CEO, the company, tech startup CEOs, and tech startup culture more generally.
Don't CEOs ever run things by PR? This sounds like a rookie mistake of accidentally forgetting to cc the person in charge of making sure the company doesn't blow itself up in the press.
i think articles like this are the actual problem. Stop playing the woman card, get a job and shut your mouth. If you don't think you will be treated well because you're a woman, don't work there. I honestly am shocked that women care. This job is saying that there are already women here, which means you have a high chance of getting hired. The more women there, the less sexual harassment in the work place. I'm a white male, so I don't have any cards to play which is good because the game is stupid and i would have folded a long time ago anyway.
Who wouldn't enjoy working alongside a sexy French or Italian girl (or guy, no homo). Considering most engineers are men it makes sense to appeal to them in this fashion. Sex sells, duh.
Seriously, 'programmers being dicks' gets upvoted to front page?<p>Someone might as well start 'programmers being cunts' with the first post discussing 'women and programming - one small step for productivity, one giant leap for drama and bullshit'
I think that women that get upset on this AD are those whose companies were not proud of having them in the team - they are jealous. The type of women who are wearing generous decolletages, but they feel insulted when someone admires their boobs. The type of women who like their eyes to be complimented, but again, they feel insulted when a man compliments their ass.<p>I think we, as men, try too much to understand them, and they try too much to keep themselves mysterious.