TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Shutting Down a Dream

231 pointsby bratfarraralmost 12 years ago

18 comments

patio11almost 12 years ago
<i>100 calls to talk to 10 people to get 1 in-person demo, frequently in another state. I got in the car, put on the suit, and did the demos. I put together some signage, set up a booth at ACTFL, IALLT, and military linguist conventions. My parents saw a lot of me (they live near a lot of colleges), I stayed in a lot of cheap motels, and slowly, I built a list of customers. Not a lot, never enough. Harvard, Yale, Brown, and other top schools were among my customers, but I never made the “big score” – the state school with tens of thousands of students.</i><p>This is, in a nutshell, why Bingo Card Creator has a price tag, a no-touch sales model, and no phone number. People write me, to this day, saying &quot;I have a question about the product. Call me at 555 555-5555 between the hours of 3 PM and 4 PM.&quot; My response is a polite variant of &quot;No.&quot;<p>I&#x27;ve had this discussion with a few people who make software for teachers&#x2F;students and I hate to be the Business Guy, but just like &quot;Buy for $2, sell for $1, make it up in volume&quot; is not a sustainable plan, you can&#x27;t use enterprise sales tactics (+) at consumer price points. If sales requires a phone call, we&#x27;ve low-bounded the product at hundreds of dollars. If it requires an in-person meeting, the lower bound is now $50k. That isn&#x27;t &quot;Could potentially be $50k if each of your 2,000 students pays $25&quot;, that&#x27;s &quot;You will be invoiced $50k.&quot;<p>+ Absent heavy modification. There are low-touch&#x2F;high-touch hybrids which can work at the $100~$500 a month mark.<p>[Edit: The definitive article on this is Joel Spolsky&#x27;s Camels and Rubber Duckies. <a href="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.joelonsoftware.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;CamelsandRubberDuckie...</a> Search for [The reason I bring this up is because software is priced three ways: free, cheap, and dear.] My only quibble is that both the pricing model and emerging standard marketing&#x2F;sales model for SaaS companies have made the no-man&#x27;s land he talks about a very interesting place to be in the ~10 years since this was written.]
j2d3almost 12 years ago
&quot;When you have children, you can have exactly one hobby. Anything else is an exercise in futility, self-deception, and ineffectiveness. Cooking healthy food is a hobby. Exercising is a hobby. Maintaining a website is a hobby. Writing a blog is a hobby. Bringing work home is a hobby. You have time to do exactly one thing after your kids go to sleep, if you want to do it well.&quot;<p>Yes. Ugh. And I cannot pick one.
评论 #6178286 未加载
评论 #6180205 未加载
评论 #6177478 未加载
评论 #6177519 未加载
noname123almost 12 years ago
Someone save this site. It&#x27;s a pretty cool site that helps people learn languages.<p>Man, so much crap out there with new flash sales websites, new aggregators for media consumption, startup&#x27;s that do home cleaning. But a website that tries to teach people something enriching without a business model, but just tries to do a good job gets tossed on the way side.<p>We need a foundation or grant program for non-profit and NGO websites. Most startups are crap-shoots anyways, VCs and developers should waste respectively their money and time on things that do good than the usual social media crap or new online marketing channels for conventional businesses.
评论 #6177627 未加载
评论 #6177830 未加载
评论 #6177718 未加载
评论 #6177695 未加载
评论 #6178808 未加载
v2rev1almost 12 years ago
This story resonates so much! I&#x27;m in the same space as OP and even doing something similar at <a href="http://membean.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;membean.com</a> .<p>Where our story digresses is that we got paid traction quickly. Early on we decided we wouldn&#x27;t be free and we&#x27;d convince schools(&amp; parents) that we offered enough value to pay for it. We narrowed in on a very specific need, focussed obsessively on quality, provided our teachers fantastic customer service, kept our burn rate very low, bootstrapped(it was hard) and just buckled down and executed.<p>Along the way, somehow, and this was crucial, our teachers turned into evangelists - parents, principals and administrators took note. It wasn&#x27;t that they just liked what we offered -- they went to bat for it. Many of our teachers spent 8+ months convincing their principals and district officials to buy us. Private schools were crucial in the beginning to get our cash flow going, public schools took longer but we waited patiently (and nervously)<p>The current ecosystem is not friendly to Ed startups, it&#x27;s stacked in favor of the large Ed vendors who have the manpower to closely follow budget allocations, develop long term relationships across 50 states and have deep knowledge on how to work the system.<p>OP, congrats for sticking to this for so long. I suspect that it was incredibly draining but along the way you&#x27;ve helped countless teachers &amp; students and that should count for a lot.
评论 #6177650 未加载
评论 #6179868 未加载
abhivalmost 12 years ago
This is the story of too many startups in the edtech space. Slow growth, grateful users, but not enough traction to grow the company through revenue or outside funding.<p>Very few edtech companies have managed to avoid this fate, and often come down to one or two people keeping the product going as a labor of love. There are a number of reasons for this, including the fact that sales are inherently high-touch and expensive, and that the users (teachers&#x2F;kids) and payers (administrators) have different perspectives and incentives.<p>Great article. Congrats on sticking it out so long.
评论 #6179298 未加载
steveridoutalmost 12 years ago
In case anyone is wondering, the site he is referring to is: <a href="http://www.wordchamp.com/lingua2/Home.do" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wordchamp.com&#x2F;lingua2&#x2F;Home.do</a><p>Articles like this scare me. I&#x27;ve been working for 8 months full time now on a bootstrapped website for learning vocabulary via reading (<a href="http://readlang.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;readlang.com</a>). I&#x27;ve been advised a few times that it&#x27;s extremely hard to make money with this kind of site but for now I&#x27;m ploughing ahead anyway. Reading this gives me pause for thought but as long as I&#x27;ve getting good feedback I&#x27;m happy to keep going and see where it might lead.<p>Even in the worst case though, I hope that I wouldn&#x27;t ever need to shut down the site, and that it could at least pay for it&#x27;s hosting costs and be automated to keep running with minimal maintenance.
评论 #6177801 未加载
jaggederestalmost 12 years ago
Why not let someone else take it over for free? I don&#x27;t understand killing it instead of looking at other ways to hand it off.
评论 #6177236 未加载
sideprojectalmost 12 years ago
Sorry for sounding like a blatant marketing. But we just launched <a href="http://sideprojectors.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;sideprojectors.com</a> where you can find someone else to take over your project. Hopefully we can help your project from being killed.
coffeemugalmost 12 years ago
In case the author is reading.<p>Kudos for finding the courage to stick with it, and the courage to quit. Those who have been in this position know what a heavy burden it can be. I hope you can find it within yourself not to turn cynical, and to use your skills and experience to make a positive change in the world. (Or, if you choose to just live your life, my hat still goes off to you)
评论 #6182795 未加载
jmathaialmost 12 years ago
I can&#x27;t imagine the weight of shutting something down which you&#x27;ve spent almost a decade on. While this is a tail of not getting to product market fit it&#x27;s the struggle of every entrepreneur.<p>Knowing how long to stick it out and when to call it quits. There is no right answer. The right answer is when you reach your limits. Most people&#x27;s limit is much less than 10 years.<p>Getting to the point where shit hits the fan (out of money with a family) has to be one of the hardest experiences outside of losing loved ones.<p>Congrats to the OP for their determination. At the same time I share my condolences at the time, energy and money that the experience cost.<p>He has this to hold on to...<p>&gt; I’m glad I had the courage to try, and I’m grateful for the insight it gave me into what it takes to build a business.
dmcgalmost 12 years ago
As someone who can&#x27;t let anything go, I found this is touching and inspiring. Thanks for having the courage to give it a go, and to stop.
jitnutalmost 12 years ago
Dan, I admired the fact you hanged on to your dream such long. It takes lot of courage and perseverance. I have been in your shoes and have felt the pain when its time to let go of the dream. But when you clear it off, it feels great. Once i met a founder of startup who gave advice &#x27;You should be passionate about your idea but not disproportionately passionate&#x27; All the best!
jborden13almost 12 years ago
Sounds like a very long lesson learned on product market fit. Best of luck to the op if he tries again.
rigginsalmost 12 years ago
what&#x27;s the site?
评论 #6177239 未加载
invisiblealmost 12 years ago
If it is a profitable&#x2F;good idea - surely someone out there would buy it from you for some small amount of money. Or is the monthly income not worth someone buying?<p>Wouldn&#x27;t everyone win in that case?
wehadfunalmost 12 years ago
Really someone needs to do a marketplace to buy and sell these projects. I&#x27;m sure a project that has customers is worth something.<p>deadstart.com restart.com ...
Dewiealmost 12 years ago
&gt; When you have children, you can have exactly one hobby. Anything else is an exercise in futility, self-deception, and ineffectiveness. Cooking healthy food is a hobby. Exercising is a hobby. Maintaining a website is a hobby. Writing a blog is a hobby. Bringing work home is a hobby. You have time to do exactly one thing after your kids go to sleep, if you want to do it well. The pointless waste of time had to go.<p>21 century, the first world, and yet raising children is an almost insurmountable task. No wonder fertility rates in the West are so low.
评论 #6177948 未加载
评论 #6177875 未加载
评论 #6178098 未加载
评论 #6178458 未加载
评论 #6178187 未加载
bengrunfeldalmost 12 years ago
&quot;The story of one man is the store of the entire world&quot;.<p>I think it&#x27;s easy to talk down to someone who has admitted failure, but the truth is we&#x27;ve all been through it, although some of us hide it better than others.<p>My custom web-development business tanked last year after customers refused to stop asking for changes. Insomnia &amp; anxiety were frustratingly close friends of mine too.<p>Maybe the site is shutting down and maybe you could have done something different that would have succeeded more, but super-kudos for trying!