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Four fears for authoritarians

263 pointsby wljover 11 years ago

12 comments

scrrrover 11 years ago
Yep, see what happened in the Arabic countries (and some other countries outside of the Islam-sphere). People organised to protest using the Internet. People get educated using the Internet. In Cuba they exchange information using thumb drives. And every bullshitter (= our governments) should be afraid of it. They are, of course. And surveillance is their reaction.<p>What will help is if everyone finally realises that it&#x27;s NOT about pornography, that it&#x27;s NOT about terrorism, that it&#x27;s NOT about drugs, that it&#x27;s NOT about whatever reason they name..
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jstalinover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m reminded of a George Washington quote:<p>&quot;Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.&quot;<p>In other words, government is, at its bare naked minimum, the monopoly of force. It must be contained, mistrusted, and treated as a necessary evil.<p>Despite the USA being screwed up in so many ways, I still thank my lucky stars for the anti-federalists, who gave us the bill of rights. Without them, we would be much worse off today than we are.
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talktimeover 11 years ago
Expat Brit here. Quite frankly I&#x27;m frightened to pass through UK ports now to visit family after reading about Schedule 7 powers.<p>My reading of it is that passing through a UK port means I enter a legal limbo. If stopped by an inquisitor, I&#x27;m likely to assert my right to silence. This may mean I&#x27;m detained and intimidated for 9 hours. At the end of this I can be arrested and charged with &#x27;non-cooperation&#x27;, this may involve further detention and&#x2F;or fines all for simply remaining silent.<p>Leaving the UK is worse, as I&#x27;ll likely miss my flight, and have the expense of re-booking.<p>This is just if the border agents are acting within &#x27;the law&#x27;.<p>Virtually every UK citizen passes through a port at sometime during the year - the inquistors can simply wait there for anyone they are interested in. It effectively means the right to silence is dead.<p>Foreign visitors should be aware they can be legally forced to give up their Gmail&#x2F;Facebook passwords. Hope Big Ben is worth it.<p>I wonder what the plans are for Julian Assange when he eventually leaves the UK - almost certain to be detained under Schedule 7.
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tlarkworthyover 11 years ago
If anyone knew the most effective way for us UK citizens to stop our government from making irreversible constitutional mistakes I would be highly grateful for the information.
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c2prodsover 11 years ago
Very good article, I think it got everything right. It&#x27;s a well-known fact that fear always leads to dark outcomes for democracy (it&#x27;s been very well covered through many films and books, from Yoda to Orwell :p). Yet, for the first time, local governments try to shut down a global network. This paradox might be what saves us. At any rate, the least we can do is to raise awareness about this topic.
tokenadultover 11 years ago
I seem to be part of a small minority of HN participants who have actually lived through a transition from<p>1) an authoritarian regime with pervasive surveillance, direct governmental control of all mass media organizations, secret police who tortured and killed peaceful dissidents--even dissidents based in other countries, and a ruling party organized essentially as a terrorist organization<p>to<p>2) a government constrained by rule of law with broad protection of individual civil liberties, a free press, judicial and legislative oversight of the police, and multiple political parties based on voluntary participation.<p>I have tried to tell the story before here<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5985720" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5985720</a><p>of what life was like under the dictatorial regime, and I have repeatedly recommended experience-tested tips for freedom-fighters<p><a href="http://www.aeinstein.org/organizationsde07.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.aeinstein.org&#x2F;organizationsde07.html</a><p>about how people around the world can, and do, organize to overcome authoritarian repression.<p>It&#x27;s up to everyone here on Hacker News to decide whether or not to pay the price to organize to secure liberty. I know what the cost is, and I know what the reward is, of a successful freedom-fighting movement. I don&#x27;t know whether or not Hacker News participants will mostly set aside their desires for comfort and entertainment to struggle successfully for freedom, but I will watching meanwhile, and I am always willing to help when dare to take a consistent stand for freedom.
personlurkingover 11 years ago
&quot;Once the filters are built, the terms upon which they can filter can be (indeed will be) modified.&quot;<p>This and every law on the books. A law is like ground being broken on a particular location (realm of life), something will be built upon it down the line. Much fuss might be made over the specific law but it is all slight of hand.
goleksiakover 11 years ago
This is about control - but control for what purpose? The short-term financial gain of elites? Maybe. To satisfy elite paranoia?. Maybe.<p>Maybe this is control for stability.<p>The government creates models of the future and with more and more data about climate change pointing to disaster in the next few decades, those models must be focusing more and more at that point. So instead of government &quot;holding its people back from a bright future&quot;, they are pragmatically laying the foundations for the control structures that will be necessary in the unavoidably dark future.<p>How can stability be maintained when society is radically altered by climate change?<p>Answer: Control
asgard1024over 11 years ago
I have come to conclusion that more radical thinking is needed. American constitution (or other derived documents, such as EU Charter on Human Rights, I am EU citizen), as it stands, is not going to cut it.<p>The thing is, the extremes of keeping things hidden we see in the government are just a tip of a long tail of many, many people trying to keep things hidden in other, more mundane, institutions. For existential fears, people who could point out these problems stay silent. We accept this as a necessary acts, because of &quot;competition&quot;. But aren&#x27;t wars and such just another result of this thinking, really? (For an interesting take on morality of speaking truth, see also Sam Harris&#x27; book Lying.)<p>Here&#x27;s a couple of ideas:<p>1. Can democratic state do without any secret service at all? I don&#x27;t mean not to have &quot;operational&quot; security. You need to keep secret where you have troops, keys etc. But; maybe it should just release all the secrets after 5 years, about operations they did. Likewise, their operations should be made public, just like courts are. In other words, the default position should be to release, not keep secret. I am on a fence regarding technology plans - would really world be a better place if Russians couldn&#x27;t make the bomb? The point is, we take position &quot;secret service is needed&quot; for granted; I don&#x27;t think it is.<p>2. There should be no blank exceptions to free speech, just like in the above case. It should be right applied to everybody, not just US (or other state) citizens. Private sector shouldn&#x27;t be an exception - you should have right to publicly criticize your employer. There should be no contracts preventing you from disclosing information about what you don&#x27;t like, or about what happened to you.<p>3. I envision a platform that would allow anonymous publishing of unreliable information, which then could be collectively analyzed and the reliability of sources assessed, without revealing them. Kind of inversion of classical journalism, where you have a limited number of people (editors) accessing unreliable information and only publishing if you can reasonably prove it to be true; here you would publish indiscriminately things, that are not true, and only later, via some algorithm that would connect the sources somehow yet retain their anonymity, the correctness of the information would be proved. It should allow to connect very small leaks from many people. This would require a cultural change in how we understand media, but it could be done in incremental way.<p>I am not completely advocating all of what I just mentioned; I would just like to see some discussion about that. Maybe everything about institutional behavior in the past, older than 5 years, let&#x27;s say, should just be fair game to publish. This rule would nicely exclude all the technical and operational plans.
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batemanesqueover 11 years ago
meaningless reification of &#x27;the internet&#x27;... the current secrecy debate is no more about the internet than Watergate was about tape recorders
001skyover 11 years ago
Don&#x27;t forget...<p><i>Facebook CEO Admits To Calling Users &#x27;Dumb Fucks&#x27;</i><p><a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims-wont-help-facebooks-privacy-problems-2010-5" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims...</a>
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batemanesqueover 11 years ago
and describing all this as the same &#x27;agenda&#x27; is grossly simplistic &amp; undermines attempts to reinforce civil liberties. there may be broad trends but they&#x27;re not driven by a unified entity, and given that the scope of NSA surveillance was known before Snowden his leaks hardly give credence to the possibility of taking conspiracy theories seriously
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