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Dawn of Autonomous Corporations, Powered by Bitcoin

203 pointsby sidkoover 11 years ago

35 comments

fcholletover 11 years ago
With AI and advanced automation, and possibly crowdsourcing, it becomes credible that any type of economic value could eventually be produced in a decentralized fashion. And one can imagine that such autonomous corporations would evolve to be so competitive (since they can afford to) that they would put all profit-driven concurrents out of business.<p>The economy would eventually transform into a landscape of owner-less providers of economic value, perfectly &quot;efficient&quot; in the capitalistic sense. That might even happen sooner than fully decentralized governments.
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jandrewrogersover 11 years ago
An important property of corporations is that they are <i>always</i> resolvable to a natural person. This is true even in jurisdictions like Nevada where the corporate laws allow arbitrary levels of blinding and indirection. The &quot;autonomy&quot; would be illusory.<p>Basically, you can&#x27;t do much that is interesting unless a computer system ultimately resolves, or is imputed by law to resolve, to a specific natural person.<p>(EDIT: People are missing the point. What you call it is immaterial. All the handwaving aside, these &quot;autonomous systems&quot; including the ones described by the author are legally not autonomous. It is not possible under the law to construct such a thing. You may claim that it is &quot;autonomous&quot; but no government will recognize that claim as suggesting legal independence from a natural person. True AI would make this weird but we do not have AI today and the underlying fact still remains.)
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BoppreHover 11 years ago
Reminds me of Charles Stross &quot;Accelerando&quot;, where autonomous corporations take over the world and humans are driven away from it because we can&#x27;t understand Economics 2.0.
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Cogitoover 11 years ago
The author believes that Bitcoin is the first of many future &#x27;autonomous corporations&#x27; that are defined by their nature; they run themselves.<p>Of Bitcoin in particular it says<p><pre><code> this corporation has revenues, expenditures and profits. However... no one owns this entity, it owns itself ...it provides a payment protocol and employs miners to maintain that protocol. The employs are rewarded with ‘stock’ that is split at most into 21 million units </code></pre> I really like this concept, but I struggle to link it to the thesis that Bitcoin removes &#x27;the major missing piece of the equation – payments&#x27;.<p>I think Bitcoin is able to be distributed and autonomous by its nature, and that any future autonomous corporations will similarly need to be autonomous by nature. Thus, while allowing for the kinds of payments and receipts an autonomous corporation will require, I don&#x27;t think Bitcoin is the only thing such a corporation will need, nor the most important.<p>Instead, it will be innovative solutions that by their nature require decentralisation and autonomy that eventuate in this &#x27;next generation of corporations&#x27;. Bitcoin will be an important model going forward; I&#x27;m really looking forward to solutions to other problems that surely will be inspired by it in the coming years.
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clienthunterover 11 years ago
If Bitcoin ever graduates to anything more than a toy currency (last count was a billion or two USD globally?) then it&#x27;s going to have to deal with graduate level problems. The business cycle is a thing I&#x27;m afraid, and the management of a recession to prevent it&#x27;s becoming a depression is as close to a fusion of science and art as you&#x27;ll ever see. The necessity for this isn&#x27;t going to change as long as the human brain continues to function as it does.<p>In good times people want more money - a discussion on what they <i>should</i> want is irrelevant, lets stick to the facts - and in bad times people want to protect what they have (aggressively so). Now consider that what makes times good vs bad is not determined by money - it&#x27;s determined and prolonged by some other shock like an asset misvaluation, the destruction of a massive crop, or some combination of external factors underlying the real or nominal non-money <i>thing</i>.<p>Let&#x27;s say it&#x27;s a rice crop. Those dependent on rice freak out, and push all their money into safe assets, those dependent on those dependent on rice do the same. The chain reaction continues until all the economy&#x27;s money is tied up in safe assets, not being spent, and everyone is sat at home waiting for it to blow over. If policymakers do not intervene correctly at this point, this situation will become a depression, and much misery will ensue.<p>So what do we do? We make safe assets more expensive to lower the risk&#x2F;reward ratio for commercial activities: we make bank holdings very unrewarding (lower interest rates), we devalue the money in circulation <i>and</i> provide liquidity in one move (print money), and government invests in big infrastructure (liquidity, jobs, momentum, signalling etc). All of this is designed to keep things moving and ward off a depression. And it works - this is why we abandoned the gold standard.<p>So given that Bitcoin means nothing to rice, or most other external factors, and not to the rigidities that exacerbate recessions - how exactly do we deal with this in the described autonomous utopia?<p>I very much agree that the regulators of currency leave a tremendous amount to be desired, but unfortunately this appears to be one of very few economic problems where decentralisation is not the answer.
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CrunchyJamsover 11 years ago
This article is a scaled-down version of the original one in Bitcoin Magazine by Vitalik Buterin. You can find it here:<p><a href="http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7050/bootstrapping-a-decentralized-autonomous-corporation-part-i/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bitcoinmagazine.com&#x2F;7050&#x2F;bootstrapping-a-decentralize...</a>
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spiritplumberover 11 years ago
I think an autonomous corporation is more likely to happen thusly:<p>* Person comes up with a business model. * Person automates it as much as possible, eventually automating all of it. * Person ends up being in a car accident.<p>There&#x27;s no reason why the AI he wrote shouldn&#x27;t be able to keep &quot;living&quot; (aka paying its bills) for a while, if the idea was of the right sort.
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sans-serifover 11 years ago
I for one welcome our new autonomous corporation overlord, which would hire people via TaskRabbit to become its shareholders, and hire lawyers via emails to protect its interests. It would commission new servers on various cloud providers on the fly to avoid being shut down. It would generate revenue by running a SilkRoad that cannot be stopped. It would employ security guards and hitmen to stop people going after it. It would commission black hat hackers to help it infiltrate various intelligence networks, and rely on Mechanical Turk to translate human language into something that makes semantic sense for it to act upon.
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olefooover 11 years ago
This is a bad idea, just as bad and pernicious as autonomous robots with authority to commit lethal violence on their own say so.<p>When they ask how the humans went extinct, the answer will be; gradually and then suddenly.
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atmosxover 11 years ago
The conviction some commentators have that somehow Bitcoin is more <i>secure</i>, <i>ethical</i> and <i>predictable</i> than FIAT (central-bank-controlled) currency is hilarious.<p>Given the fact that 98% of BTC belong to 2% of portfolios and there&#x27;s a way stronger anonymity compared to fiat currency (<i>you all know who Bernanke is and where his power comes from</i>) and early adopters can drive easily the market up or down. Personally I believe that&#x27;s the main reason BTC didn&#x27;t fall after SR bust. Because, what most believe is <i>not controlled</i> is TOTALLY controlled (big players didn&#x27;t opt out).<p>That said I can see how BTC is useful and has awesome qualities, especially for people who understand technicalities of a digital currency and how money works.<p>However, BTC is a hoarding system. Much like gold and nothing like fiat. BTC is not inflationary, by design. Inflation is the first quality a fiat currency must have, in order make people willing to spend.
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wsetchellover 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t think autonomous &#x27;corporations&#x27; are anything new. If you replace Bitcoin with the gold market , most of the statements in the article still apply.<p>&quot;&quot;&quot; Gold can be thought of as the first real autonomous ‘corporation’ although you probably don’t see it that way. Think about it – it provides a payment protocol and employs traders to maintain that protocol.<p>The idea is the same – this corporation has revenues, expenditures and profits. However, once again, no one owns this entity, it owns itself. &quot;&quot;&quot;
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olalondeover 11 years ago
There is an article on that topic in the Bitcoin wiki: <a href="https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Agents" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.bitcoin.it&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Agents</a>.<p>I am deeply interested in the subject and would love to discuss the topic and brainstorm some possible implementations with like minded people on Freenode (#bitcoin-agent).
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droneStrikesover 11 years ago
There&#x27;s one major flaw in this spectre of the unstoppable killing machine known as the &quot;autonomous corporation&quot;:<p>If the whole premise of its autonomy rests solely on it&#x27;s ability to engage in metered economic exchanges by way of some kind of bitcoin-style protocol, then an &quot;autonomous corporation&quot; MUST, by definition, persist on a distributed global network of continously available computers. So, if this entity has that dependency, then who&#x27;s providing the hosting?<p>He who opts in on hosting the protocol, carries a say in the fate of the entity, thus this is no more &quot;autonomous&quot; than any other body of distributed human decision making. Whether it be voting, the purchase of publicly traded shares, or the organization of a bond to fund a bridge to nowhere.<p>It comes down to this: In order to mine bitcoins, or rather, add value to the system, you have to be constantly connected tothe internet. You can&#x27;t mine a bitcoin in isolation. You can&#x27;t power up a stand-alone, air-gapped machine, and mine bitcoins and expect them to have value when you connect it to the internet.<p>If you can&#x27;t mine your own bitcoins in a vacuum, then very obviously, this requires you to interact with the world at large, over public networks. Those other systems must be available and complicit in such activities. That certainly doesn&#x27;t fit my definition of &quot;autonomous&quot; in the sense of some massive force-of-nature style artificial intelligence boogey man. These systems need to be switched on, activated and tended to by someone. Someone will eventually want to extract value from these economic crypto-currencies.<p>So, here we are, coming back to the drone&#x2F;remote control debate. Is a drone really &quot;autonomous&quot; when there&#x27;s a pilot manning a set of remote controls from a bunker? Similarly, is this truly an &quot;autonomous&quot; corporation, when there are people deploying agents onto client hosts and services onto servers, all with the goal of gaining wealth? However you want to encapsulate the skill sets involved, that still requires expertise, and human intervention in my book, and certainly doesn&#x27;t sound autonomous at all, to me.<p>Autonomy is a relative term. Whose autonomy are we talking about, here? And autonomy from &quot;what&quot; precisely?
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drcodeover 11 years ago
Yeah, only a few people have come to this realization:<p><pre><code> 1. It&#x27;s IMPOSSIBLE to have a corporation without money 2. So far it&#x27;s been impossible to receive money online anonymously </code></pre> Therefore:<p><pre><code> 3. Corporations can&#x27;t be anonymous </code></pre> Bitcoin finally gets rid of this barrier and makes anonymous corporations possible (whether autonomous or human-operated)
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gonzoover 11 years ago
20 years ago at Fringeware, Paco Nathan (is pxn on HN?) had the idea to form a corporation with a board of directors, put an AI on the board, then have all the human directors resign.
kybernetikosover 11 years ago
Nice idea, I&#x27;ve been looking forward to the &#x27;self-operating-business-in-a-shrinkwrap-box&#x27; for quite a while, and this discussion sounds a lot like the kinds of things Charles Stross likes to put in his sci-fi stories.<p>Still, keeping a private key safe for a distributed corporation will be a challenge. One attack I can think of - set up a fake hosting company that claims to offer cheap hosting, wait for the corporation to move some of its agents there, then bam, you&#x27;ve got the private key. That kind of thing might be difficult to pull off, but if any of these corporations controlled significant assets, then the amount of resources an attacker would be prepared to expend would be very high.<p>I suppose it suggests a mechanism where spending resources requires the cooperation of a number of agents that must be contracted with different hosting companies, and perhaps a period of warm up, where for the first x months, an agent might do useful things but would not be given power to control money.
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adamb_over 11 years ago
Fascinating concept. It would need a very specific kind of product for such a cooperation to be able to withstand human competition though. The OP mentions a storage service &amp; autonomous cars, but I&#x27;m thinking that a good candidate would be a product with such thin margins, supporting human labor could not be feasible.
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skizmover 11 years ago
Just like the decentralized nature of the internet kept large companies and the government from taking it over. Oh wait...
_deliriumover 11 years ago
For better or worse, the degree of autonomy that this &quot;autonomous corporation&quot; has is exceptionally weak...
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bthornburyover 11 years ago
This is incredibly interesting. Corporations essentially crowdsourced the way bitcoin is. I disagree that these applications will reside in the cloud however, because those are essentially provided and administrated by a central entity.<p>It&#x27;s more likely that such an autonomous corporation would provide a cloud service. The protocol could be designed like bitcoin to reject hosts that don&#x27;t meet certain criteria (such as latency or security). With Homomorphic encryption techniques being advanced these types of clouds could even be somewhat secure.
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mmanfrinover 11 years ago
<p><pre><code> only way to deal with those corporations will be through Bitcoin (that’s right, they won’t, or rather can’t, accept fiat like US Dollar) </code></pre> Bitcoin is fiat.
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tdaltoncover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s a understandable analogy, but an autonomous profit making systems wouldn&#x27;t need to act like a corporation. Depending on what it&#x27;s decision making system is like, it could have behavior for which we don&#x27;t a prior from which to make an analogy.
return0over 11 years ago
Any kind of libertarian community&#x2F;market&#x2F;state will need to shield itself from all other political states in the world just as well. An army would be required for that, yet it&#x27;s not clear if libertarians would collectively defend themselves.
swswswover 11 years ago
One thing to note is that bitcoin not only made this autonomous system possible, it also made it transparent to outside (through open-source and public blockchain). In that sense, it could be considered more trustworthy than an actual corporation.
dkuntz2over 11 years ago
The aside in the third sentence really bugged me. It seemed to imply that Bitcoin isn&#x27;t a fiat currency, but considering it, like the US Dollar which it mentioned, doesn&#x27;t have any intrinsic value, isn&#x27;t it also a fiat currency?
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spullaraover 11 years ago
We normally call these _viruses_.
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slacksonover 11 years ago
Bitcoin autonomous corporations could use prediction markets to choose code changes.
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waterlesscloudover 11 years ago
Cstross has an interesting take on autonomous corporations in his novel Accelerando.
lingbenover 11 years ago
It is difficult to keep reading when &#x27;fiat&#x27; is used as an expletive.
snambiover 11 years ago
Systems don&#x27;t work by themselves. You need a person(s) somewhere. That person has to live somewhere, unless he is in space or in the middle of ocean.
oscargrouchover 11 years ago
change the same logic as mining of bitcoin, and transfer it to work:<p>i mean, mining in this case will be work.. and the amount of work would say how much payment that work diserve..<p>but how to calculate work in a generic manner without being too linear.. like hours&#x2F;work.. i mean.. pay for creativity, ideas, less tangible things..<p>and about other investments. how they would be decided? this requires a good amount of algorithms..
etheraelover 11 years ago
a blockchain that finances its ops by access to aquaponic food dispensaries would be an interesting future innovation. Similar to current cryptocurrencies, but the &quot;backing&quot; is that the dispensaries will take the currency for purchasing produce, and the mining process itself is linked to the creation and maintenance of those AP microfarms.
AJ007over 11 years ago
It brings a new meaning to paying your monthly bills when failure to do so brings death.
chad_oliverover 11 years ago
As an aside: the title image depicts the Sky Tower in Auckland, New Zealand.
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eriksankover 11 years ago
The existing, politically-controlled system of finance and corporations has numerous and powerful enemies, hellbent on bringing it down, in whatever way possible. Furthermore, even without enemies, it is patently clear that the fiat money system is happily busy destroying itself: raising debt ceilings, engaging in quantitative easing, and so on. The libertarian movement is probably one of their smallest enemies in terms of headcount but at the same time it really looks like the most powerful one. If you read the original paper by Satoshi Nakamoto, you can see that the entire purpose of bitcoin is exactly to bring the current system to its knees. I hope that BTC succeeds in doing that and save its supporters from being dragged along in the quagmire, before the current fiat system finally destroys itself.
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