TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Russian programmer fights Goldman Sachs and wins one round

240 pointsby gkuanover 11 years ago

19 comments

lambdaover 11 years ago
If anyone&#x27;s interested, I found the appeals court ruling finding him not guilty of violating federal law, and leading to his release, on PACER, uploaded to the Internet Archive so you can access it without a paywall via RECAP:<p><a href="https://ia700209.us.archive.org/9/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.165.0.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ia700209.us.archive.org&#x2F;9&#x2F;items&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.35...</a><p>The basic argument hinges on the three counts, related to three laws he was alleged to have broken: the Economic Espionage Act, the National Stolen Property Act, and the Computer Fraud and Abuse act. The third charge was dismissed by the district court because it rested on the fact that he had either accessed systems he was not authorized to or exceeded authorized access. However, he was authorized to access the source code in question, and what he did with it afterwards has no bearing on whether he exceeded his authorization, so it doesn&#x27;t fall under the CFAA.<p>The district court did convict him on the first two counts, but the Appeals Court reversed. Their argument is that the National Stolen Property Act doesn&#x27;t apply because it applies only to actual physical goods, not mere intangible ideas. Had he photocopied the source and walked out with it, or loaded it onto a thumb drive at the office and taken that with him, it would have counted as stealing a physical good, but merely uploading it to a server and downloading it onto a thumb drive later does not count.<p>The court further argues that he did not violate the Economic Espionage Act because the clause in question he was prosecuted under specifically requires that the &quot;trade secret ... is related to or included in a product that is produced for or placed in interstate or foreign commerce&quot;. Since Goldman Sachs&#x27; HFT trading system entirely proprietary and internal and not produced for or placed in interstate commerce, that particular law does not apply. Apparently Congress specifically intended this restriction, because earlier drafts of the statute had broader language that merely included &quot;proprietary economic information having a value of not less than $100,000&quot;. The fact that Goldman Sachs uses the product for interstate commerce is not compelling, it had to itself be produced for or placed in interstate commerce.<p>That last part is interesting. It implies that if you run proprietary, internal code that is not sold or intended to be sold in the future, you appear to lose federal criminal trade secret protections. It&#x27;s interesting that they tried to prosecute him on theft, trade secret infringement, and exceeding authorized access, but not copyright infringement. From my reading even unpublished work is subject to copyright.<p>Neither the original conviction nor the appeals court opinion ever addressed the copyright issue. In order for him to have stolen something, it would have had to be something of value; so why wasn&#x27;t he further prosecuted for copyright violation? From the documents I read (not all are available on PACER), the copyright question never even came up.<p>More documents from the case:<p>Motion to dismiss the original case in district court: <a href="https://ia600209.us.archive.org/9/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.46.0.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ia600209.us.archive.org&#x2F;9&#x2F;items&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.35...</a><p>Government&#x27;s response to the motion: <a href="http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.50.0.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.archive.org&#x2F;download&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.358303&#x2F;gov...</a><p>Affadavit of the investigating officer: <a href="http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.50.1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.archive.org&#x2F;download&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.358303&#x2F;gov...</a><p>District court&#x27;s opinion dismissing the third count but refusing to dismiss the first two: <a href="https://ia600209.us.archive.org/9/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.58.0.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ia600209.us.archive.org&#x2F;9&#x2F;items&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.35...</a><p>List of files requested in discovery, to demonstrate that what he took was insubstantial and not proprietary: <a href="http://www.archive.org/download/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.35.0.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.archive.org&#x2F;download&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.358303&#x2F;gov...</a><p>A few of the things he had downloaded were their version of the Erlang platform, which is available under the Erlang Public License, a derivative of the Mozilla Public License. So it would be more fruitful to debate the merits of that license, not the GPL.<p>All of the currently uploaded items in the docket: <a href="https://ia600209.us.archive.org/9/items/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303/gov.uscourts.nysd.358303.docket.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ia600209.us.archive.org&#x2F;9&#x2F;items&#x2F;gov.uscourts.nysd.35...</a>
评论 #6596770 未加载
评论 #6596457 未加载
评论 #6596375 未加载
评论 #6598322 未加载
评论 #6596384 未加载
downandoutover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s very clear that Goldman is trying to punish him for leaving, while sending a message to their other programmers that if they leave, their lives will be ruined. Even if this guy ultimately wins the state trial, he will never get back the years he has spent fighting it. Goldman has already won, and in this case that is appalling.
评论 #6595658 未加载
评论 #6595537 未加载
评论 #6595564 未加载
评论 #6596346 未加载
评论 #6595530 未加载
Mikeb85over 11 years ago
For everyone bringing up the GPL licence, strait from the horse&#x27;s mouth:<p>&gt; The GPL does not require you to release your modified version. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization. But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program&#x27;s users, under the GPL.<p><a href="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnu.org&#x2F;licenses&#x2F;old-licenses&#x2F;gpl-2.0-faq.html#GP...</a><p>Distributing the code within a company&#x2F;organization does NOT constitute &#x27;distribution&#x27;, and does NOT require you to release your code.<p>Edit - and in the licence itself - Version 3 of the GPL<p>&gt; “The Program” refers to any copyrightable work licensed under this License. Each licensee is addressed as “you”. “Licensees” and “recipients” may be individuals or organizations. And<p>&gt; To “propagate” a work means to do anything with it that, without permission, would make you directly or secondarily liable for infringement under applicable copyright law, except executing it on a computer or modifying a private copy. Propagation includes copying, distribution (with or without modification), making available to the public, and in some countries other activities as well.<p><a href="http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnu.org&#x2F;copyleft&#x2F;gpl.html</a>
评论 #6596000 未加载
评论 #6595888 未加载
OldSchoolover 11 years ago
This type of story underscores my Icarus-inspired philosophy in business: fly high but not so high that you become an obvious target or otherwise risk getting burned.<p>I learned relatively early that above some level (that&#x27;s not even all that high), you&#x27;ll find that you&#x27;re dealing primarily with people whose sole purpose in life seems to be to serve their love of money and quest for validation. They are like insects drawn to a light and about as thoughtful.<p>Suffice to say that when you find that you have to play harder and harder to make up for the stress of your daily work life, it&#x27;s time to take a look at what you really want and why you&#x27;re doing what you&#x27;re doing.
评论 #6595898 未加载
评论 #6597010 未加载
rdtscover 11 years ago
Sergey is a good Erlang programmer.<p>He is active in on the Erlang mailing list. He wrote a cool C++ to Erlang interface. Here is his Github account:<p><a href="https://github.com/saleyn" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;saleyn</a><p>I am happy for him. He is a great asset to the open source community.
评论 #6597497 未加载
jarydover 11 years ago
For those that are interested in the backstory: <a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer.print" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vanityfair.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2013&#x2F;09&#x2F;michael-lewis-gol...</a>
评论 #6595691 未加载
评论 #6596011 未加载
评论 #6595622 未加载
评论 #6595869 未加载
评论 #6600283 未加载
merrakshover 11 years ago
<i>which time he sent himself, through a so-called &quot;subversion repository,&quot; 32 megabytes of source code from Goldman’s high-frequency stock-trading system.</i><p>I can&#x27;t help smile at the thought of what non-CS people might mistake a &quot;<i>subversion</i> repository&quot; for.
评论 #6597940 未加载
patmcguireover 11 years ago
The Michael Lewis article, which is more or less required reading on this: <a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vanityfair.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2013&#x2F;09&#x2F;michael-lewis-gol...</a>
oofabzover 11 years ago
Aleynikov has lived in the US for twenty years and owns a house in Chicago. It sounds to me like he is an American programmer, not a Russian programmer. I don&#x27;t see why his ancestry is relevant.
评论 #6596067 未加载
评论 #6596719 未加载
eliteraspberrieover 11 years ago
It seems Goldman Sachs attempted to commandeer the criminal justice system to retaliate against a former employee, and succeeded in doing so. It is not in the jurisdiction of police to act as arbiters of employment disputes -- that is for the civil court system. Whatever the allegations against Mr. Aleynikov, this I am sure we can all agree on.
评论 #6596988 未加载
shmerlover 11 years ago
Here is the story covered in more detail: <a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vanityfair.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;2013&#x2F;09&#x2F;michael-lewis-gol...</a>
评论 #6596043 未加载
rcarrigan87over 11 years ago
The real tragedy is how many brilliant and motivated people end up in finance nowadays and how the industry overall continues to grow into an ever greater portion of the US economy. I&#x27;m not belittling the role of finance in an advanced economy. But you would think with the incredible advances we&#x27;ve made in electronic exchanges and the free flow of information on the internet the role of finance would have taken a backseat. Unfortunately, Sergey is just another example (guilty or not) of wasted talent down the financial sink hole.
sanxiynover 11 years ago
Let me quote from Wikipedia here:<p>&quot;On 8 September 2005, the Seoul Central District Court ruled that the GPL was not material to a case dealing with trade secrets derived from GPL-licensed work. Defendants argued that since it is impossible to maintain trade secrets while being compliant with GPL and distributing the work, they are not in breach of trade secrets. This argument was considered without ground.&quot;
brunoooover 11 years ago
Guess the Michael Lewis story (damn, he should write more again) also explains the commits to <a href="https://github.com/goldmansachs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;goldmansachs</a> a few months ago.
eddie_the_headover 11 years ago
How is this not double jeopardy?
评论 #6595950 未加载
xerophtyeover 11 years ago
Umm.... let me get this straight, GS is required to pay the legal fees because he was an employee at GS? So if the company sues one of its employees, it has to pay for both sides? Really?<p>PS: If i remember correctly, hadn&#x27;t Sergey resigned from GS by then? I thought he was just hanging around an extra week or two to train his successors.
评论 #6597083 未加载
ig1over 11 years ago
A lot of the comments here seem to be oblivious to the details of the original indictment:<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/021110aleynikovindictment.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;online.wsj.com&#x2F;public&#x2F;resources&#x2F;documents&#x2F;021110aleyn...</a><p>It pretty explicitly details how the &quot;backup&quot; program he wrote had flags to select what to copy and some of those flags specifically copied GS option pricing code that he had never worked on.
评论 #6595914 未加载
poof131over 11 years ago
Question: does anyone know if software patents were declared null and void, would this case still exist? It seems he only took snippets of code and not the entire system for profit. How would this case differ if software was copyrightable but not patentable (i.e. Either you stole the manuscript or you didn&#x27;t)?
评论 #6595922 未加载
评论 #6595756 未加载
评论 #6595891 未加载
Volpeover 11 years ago
Love the racial inclusion for no reason.
评论 #6597783 未加载