Complaining about the winter in SF? Really? I understand seasonal depression, but that can't even hold a candle to the bullshit we see up here in the Great Salted North.<p>I wake up and bike to work during the winters here... It's pitch black until after 8 AM. After work? Darkness and cold by 5 PM. This is for around 5 months of the year up here. Sure, shit gets annoying during the nastiness of November through March, but you get through it.<p>A winter in SF would be a vacation.<p>Edit: Didn't mean to be incendiary here, just wanted to put things in perspective.
I suffer from SAD. I didn't know it for years too.<p>It was just that I ran into my dark phases, but had no actual clue how, or why.<p>It was my psychologist, who asked the pertinent question years ago: Is there some sort of pattern, or rhythm to this ordeal?<p>Well, no shit Sherlock! It always seems to happen betwen October and March.<p>He recommended a light and I got myself a Philips Energy Light, like 5 years ago and it makes <i>huge</i> difference.<p>I still feel shitty, during most of late Autumn and early spring. But half an hour under the lamp, sipping green tea and usually reading whatever made life so much better.<p>In addition: I'll head off for a month in Asia in January. That helps a lot too.<p>Lack of light can seriously affect some people.<p>This may <i>not</i> be a solution if you suffer from depression.<p>Get help! If you suffer from depression. Really! I mean it! It can kill you!<p>But for me, 30 minutes a day, under the light makes a world of a difference.
I have a somewhat opposite problem; I can't work at all during the summer. I can't deal with heat well and can barely think straight if I get even slightly too warm. This summer in the UK was unbearable in my new flat, which appears to have been designed as the most effective greenhouse in the world.<p>I always look forward to autumn and winter. I get to wear clothes I like, nobody's outside as they're all whinging about the rain, and I feel a sort of melancholy bliss when I'm sat indoors whilst it's raining. It's one of the main reasons why I still live in Wales rather than somewhere like SF.
Many comments here are confusing issues:<p>- It's not about relative winter temperatures
- It's not about length of daylight hours during winter
- It's not about what your experience is with any of the above if you don't have the disposition to begin with<p>He's saying "If you have this pre-disposition/afflliction plan for it accordingly before it's too late (dark skies are here) That includes a) artificial interior lighting b) working 30 minutes outside into your routine somehow and c) having an escape plan that includes a week in the sun somewhere in your winter timeframe.<p>As a side note I have lived in many places including Boston and the Bay Area. The most depressed I ever felt was during El Nino driven winters in the Bay Area. I realized I would never make it a year in Seattle. Having said that, there were only 2 or 3 of those during my 10+ years there and I've never felt anything like seasonal depression. My wife though did suffer from it when we moved to Boston (and we ultimately left because of it)
Obligatory mental health comment:<p>Depression is very real, as is SAD. The article has some great suggestions on how to alleviate symptoms. However - as hackers all to often we get stuck in a 'I can hack it, I can fix it' mentality - even when it comes to our own brains.<p>Sometimes it's just 'the blues'. Often you can 'fix' it. But sometimes you can't.<p>If you are suffering and nothing you do seems to fix it - please - please - see a doctor. This isn't always something you can fix on your own. We can't afford to lose another hacker - not even you.
On a side tangent resulting in similar (edited: milder) symptoms, for decades I've noticed the typical westerner calendar is extremely lopsided. June thru December is one holiday per month if not more, where you can take a vacation and not stress about whats going on back at work, in comparison the other half of the year January thru June has ... basically no time off. Oh you can take a vacation day, you'll just have two days of junk in your inbox tomorrow, and that makes stress worse not better.<p>I get slightly depressed in January for a couple weeks with the realization that my next day off is pretty much Memorial Day weekend at the end of May. That's a long time to go without a break, especially after spending the second half of the year never working more than about 3 weeks without yet another holiday.<p>That's why I don't think the articles advice to go on a vacation is useful. WRT stress reduction all you'll end up with when taking a vacation in the first half of the year is getting paged/called by everyone still at work and you'll have an overflowing inbox. In comparison, during the other half of the year you don't even need to spend vacation days to get long weekends and slow work weeks. 90% of the company takes friday after thanksgiving off, I may as well take it off too.<p>So to reiterate one last time I'm talking about something that happens at the same time of year with vaguely similar symptoms for a completely different reason (or maybe not?) than the discussion of low D3 vitamins or whatever... although I'm sure the lack of holidays does not help those suffering from medical issues.
Living in northern Germany (read Hamburg) I can only agree.<p>That last winter here was very difficult for me, too. Especially the long, grey and dark weeks, without so much than a glimpse of sunshine.<p>Not very good for me. What has helped me, at least a little bit, was, that I started dancing again. Having someone else, who's "training" depends on you makes it less likely, that you do not go. And dancing is quite actually really strenuous, if done right and a lot of fun.<p>I learned to listen to my body, learned to feel my body better and now have at least two days a week, when I come home relaxed, lucky-exhausted.<p>But not everything is good. I feel, that "winter is coming". I can feel the energy withdrawing to a place deep inside me. I feel like curling up and preparing for hibernation. But that is not possible. I have to do my best at work everyday. So hibernating is not an option ;-)<p>So I wish all of you out there well. Be it SAD or be it "just" the "winter blues" be well and take care of yourself.
Just finished commenting on the post about the failure of science. Can't help but comment here on a post about SAD. And I am by no means making light of things. I myself struggled with SAD while in college for a few years. It's no fun at all.<p>That said, you know how I get through winter now? I live a lifestyle that is surprisingly similar to how my Northern European ancestors would have. And a big part of that is diet:<p>1. Seafood
2. Pastured animal meat/fat<p>Along with being a software developer, I am also a hog breeder. If you raise animals, but especially hogs, on open pasture exposed to the sun, their lard becomes saturated in trace elements like vitamin D3 [1].<p>1: <a href="http://www.vitamindwiki.com/%22Free+range%22+lard+has+500+IU+vitamin+D+per+teaspoon" rel="nofollow">http://www.vitamindwiki.com/%22Free+range%22+lard+has+500+IU...</a>
I've found myself in a similar position, in the past (although not for a few years). SAD is a real thing, and it has actual physical consequences.<p>I remember when I had it I would change my workout routine (read: go from running daily to running weekly... Maybe... Okay once a month). Which would only further affect me as I experienced the effects of reduced exercise, and those endorphins were seriously missed.<p>Definitely following some of the advice in the article helps, although I never did any supplements. I've beaten it by surrounding myself with a fun group of people both professionally and personally, and I keep my eye on the prize (whatever project I'm doing for work). Putting my head down and working hard is definitely a great antidote for me, although I know if might not work for everyone (it might make things worse!). I found that with a specific professional goal in mind I could get up easier, go to the gym easier, go to the office earlier, and get through my projects more efficiently.<p>Make a routine and keep on pushing!
<i>Check your D3 levels</i><p>About 5 years ago, my doctor randomly tested me for Vitamin D levels. My level was about 20 ng/ml where you should be at least 30 ng/ml and likely closer to 40 ng/ml.<p>My doctor recommended that I start taking 1,000 I.U. of Vitamin D3 per day which I did. For fun I looked up the problems that can be caused by having insufficient Vitamin D:<p><a href="http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/vitamin-d-deficiency" rel="nofollow">http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/vitamin-d-deficiency</a><p>Heart disease, cognitive impairment, asthma, <i>cancer</i>, etc. Yeah - <i>cancer</i>. In addition, a Vitamin D deficiency can actually cause back pain. That was my only major symptom. It's been 5 years and I haven't had a back pain episode since I started taking Vitamin D. Anecdotal, of course. But my levels are where they should be now and I just take one tiny Vitamin D3 pill per day.
Does anyone have experience with either Philips goLITE [1] or Wake-Up light [2]? I wonder which of these will be more effective (blue vs warm yellow).<p>Alternatively, has anyone managed to build such a device at home? AFAIK 470 nm wavelength LEDs are the way to go but getting 10k lux out of the grid..<p>[1] <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B001I45XL8/" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Philips-goLITE-BLU-Therapy-Device/dp/B...</a><p>[2] <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulation/dp/B0093162RM/" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulat...</a>
Not only are more people depressed, but more actually die during the winter too:<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-the-winter-months/" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-de...</a>
Does taking vitamin D3 supplements really work for the OP?
There have been a number of HN posts about how the vitamin fad started by Linus Pauling has not been backed up scientifically, such as this one:<p><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/?1" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitami...</a><p>but maybe there is more to it when it comes to SAD...
Sunrise today: 7:29 AM, Sunset today: 5:46 PM. (In Montreal) Things are good now, but in a little while, it is going to set at 4PM. Goodbye sun. I recently got one of those sunrise alarm clock. Let's see if it helps.
I live in Alaska - four+ feet of snow in the winter, 20 below or colder for months at a time, dark from 4pm to 9am, etc. Personally, winter sucks, and it keeps me inside even more than typical. It just causes problems (cars don't like the cold very much, among other things) and makes me miserable. I dread every day the temperature drops, and I'm not looking forward to snowfall.
The most depressing thing about this post:<p>> Buy some lights<p>> You want to get lights that are at least 5,000 lux and preferably 10,000 lux. I recommend checking out Biobrite – that’s your first stop with the Per3 and the Philips light products as secondary options. Anything that doesn’t explicitly say it is either 5,000 or 10,000 lux is not going to do the job of stimulating serotonin.<p>GO.<p>THE.<p>FUCK.<p>OUTSIDE.<p>Wake the fuck up, as soon as the sun starts to peek out, and <i>stay outside</i> until you feel awake and full of life. Then go back to your rectangular cave and hide out. Until lunch time, when you <i>go the fuck outside again</i>. Wear a thermal t-shirt and shorts and run a mile. Then go back to your cave again. Before the sun sets, <i>go outside once more</i> and watch the sunset, preferably in a jog.<p>Serotonin my ass. You're feeling the pressure of human society weighing you down, and winter is a reminder of your own mortality. Go outside and look at a lake surrounded by leafless trees, sip some hot tea, and think about how beautiful it all is.<p>(and then remember and be thankful that you're not stuck in Florida, but maybe that's just me)
Skiing. (Or snowboarding. Or ice climbing. Or mountaineering. For those in milder climates: mountain biking) The take-home point is: get a great winter activity to look forward to.<p>I used to feel this way (depressed in winter), but not since I started snowboarding. I'm <i>really</i> looking forward to winter at the moment, having moved from the southern to northern hemisphere recently.
I would recommend a much lower dosage of Vitamin D3 than the extreme high dosage (5,000 IU) on that Amazon site. While it is important to maintain reasonable levels of D3, higher levels can cause a range of problems, from kidney stones to increased risk of heart problems due to the raised calcium levels in your blood. The Linus Pauling institute recommends 600 IU, just over 1/8th the dosage of that link. People overdose on Vitamins these days, and are simply unaware that large dosages of vitamins can do far more harm than good. A little is good so more is better is a logical fallacy, yet a lot of people think this way. So I applaud you for bringing this to people's attention, but please recommend safer Vitamin D3 levels.
I live in Poland and I have the opposite; for me winter is a stimulant. I don't know whether this is some remnant genetic call to survive hard times or a fact that it casts a kind of sterile aura that helps me to flow, but I'm objectively more productive then.
Today's forecast for where I live is a low of -11 C and up to 20cm of snow. I couldn't be happier. The local ski-hills will open that much sooner! I actually feel a little bit sorry for those living in San Francisco. Summer goes away but you never get to enjoy real winter activities. If you're complaining about winter in SF, you should probably either move someplace warmer or someplace colder.<p>Really, all it takes to enjoy winter is finding a winter activity you can look forward to. If you live someplace without winter, perhaps you should pick a sport to engage in only during the winter. Hell, SF must have at least one curling rink.
Winter in North Dakota is interesting since you typically go to work and leave work in the dark. When you do go out during the day and drive somewhere, you typically wear sunglasses because the sunshine[1] off the snow makes it hard to drive otherwise. Unless the weather is poor (less often than you think), where you don't see the sun. The wind typically means you are not going to take any leisurely walks.<p>1) it is fairly sunny, but since the ground is covered in white stuff you don't get the heat absorption. Cloudy days feel less cold.
Reminded me of Ezra Pound's rewrite of Middle English Poem about summer:<p>Ancient Music - Ezra Pound<p><pre><code> Winter is icumen in,
Lhude sing Goddamm,
Raineth drop and staineth slop,
And how the wind doth ramm!
Sing: Goddamm.
Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us,
An ague hath my ham.
Freezeth river, turneth liver,
Damm you; Sing: Goddamm.
Goddamm, Goddamm, 'tis why I am, Goddamm,
So 'gainst the winter's balm.
Sing goddamm, damm, sing goddamm,
Sing goddamm, sing goddamm, DAMM.</code></pre>
I grew up in Southern California, and feel like that might be part of why the two long grey winters in sf each year affect me worse than my friends.<p>I found that a good antidote to the second winter was making snowboarding a more serious hobby. It had been something I'd done a few times when I was younger, but it was too far away to do regularly.<p>Here in the bay area though, a weekend of sun, beer, adventure, exercise, and hottubbing are only 3 hours away. And it turns the winter into something to look forward to.
I'm the opposite of this, I long for summer to be over and love the coming of the Winter.<p>I hate heat (fortunately I live in the North of England so it's not that frequent) far more than I hate the cold or dark.<p>In winter time I burrow in and get far more done (plus <i>nothing</i> beats going cycling on a road bike in the country at night when it's -5C, crystal clear and you can see stars so close you could reach out and touch them).<p>I actually dread the Summer.
What is super bizarre is after I had some blood work done, the doctor said I was deficient in Vitamin D and I live in Southern California. He further continued, that we often are indoors most of the time, and even when we go outside we cover up and don't get much direct exposure.<p>Adding to the further craziness, I asked several of my friends of their vitamin d levels and they said they were deficient also.
WRT "Wake-Up Light With Colored Sunrise Simulation, White" and other technological gadgets, I've a hypothesis that some people actually wake up at sunrise (like an anti-vampire I guess?) and other people do pure internal clock. Furthermore part of my hypothesis is there is a strong correlation between those types and likelihood of SAD-diagnosis.<p>There are implications beyond SAD, such as alarm clock design. For example I can completely decouple from light input and sleep thru bright sunlight on my face if I'm tired (or drunk or hungover as I occasionally was in my youth). In fact many a time in my youth on weekends I'd come home around sunrise and fall asleep no problemo. If I used an alarm clock that simulated sunrise, I suspect I'd come into work late very often. On the other hand for SAD sufferers is the experience literally like a lightswitch like the sun rises and you are like biologically forced to wake up? If so they'd do very well indeed with a techno-gadget like this.
I know somebody that is actually diagnosed with this and its a serious condition.<p>Am I the only person that thinks that having the acronymn SAD is actually counterproductive? I mean, kind of sounds like a bad joke right?
Can't agree more. As the days get shorter and the sky gets gloomy, my mood becomes gloomier. I've been aware of this for several years now. I noticed that when I was in college that I skipped more classes during winter and had the worst grades during winter quarter.
Some of the things that work for me to keep myself motivated- Exercise, waking up and repeating to myself- "what do I need to achieve today?", eating healthy, turning the heater off sometimes and keep the house as bright as possible.<p>Awesome blogpost!
This is one of the reason I ski living in Boston. Granted I can't do it on a daily basis, but I get outside on the weekends and get some sunshine. I can notice the pickup.
I've experienced this too, not just in winter.<p>I live in Scotland, and the weather is mostly wet and damp (rain on ~2 out of 3 days of the year). This year we had a glorious summer. I got productive work done in a single month in June than the entire first 5 months of the year.
I think everyone is affected by seasons - in my case, I feel down during seasons change, mostly May and October. I feel awesome during winter, I love it, summer not so much since I hate hot and humid weather (UK is pretty great during summer IMO :-D).
I have the same problem, but this winter I decided to fight it and take a six week vacation to Thailand in the worst months. I hope this helps to fight the depression, because I've never tried to take a vacation that long in the middle of winter.
FYI, every single Vitamin D supplement I've seen is just olive oil in gel capsules. You can even see it in the imaged on the amazon product page he linked. I just cook with olive oil all the time -- stir frys, eggs, meats, etc....
> how many days in a row did you go without getting at least half-an-hour of direct bright sunlight<p>One of my major life goals is maximizing this number. I'd get a good peeling burn if I let myself sit out in the sun like that.
I'd be OK with the winter... but winter means horrible TV programming. It's not yet March, so no Game of Thrones. Breaking Bad just ended. And Walking Dead will go on a short hiatus.
Someone should start an endless summer club. Get a group of people together and work for 6 months in San Francisco then go South (Buenos Aires or sth equivalent) when winter comes.
I wonder what causes it since the variations in sunlight are tiny in SF (shortest day = 9.5 hours) compared to for example Stockholm (shortest day = 6 hours).
As a Scandinavian, it is surprising to read people from so far, far south complaining about SAD.<p>I've been in mid Europe for a while. The sun here in mid winter is like being clubbed in the face with a bat of sunlight. Simply wonderful.<p>You might want to consider to eat breakfast before a daylight lamp, it helped me and others.<p>If you guys have SAD problems in <i>California</i>, don't go to Sweden... (Ok, there is probably few reasons to go there even without SAD problems. :-) )<p>Edit: The difference might be that you don't notice how different you are in winter if you grew up in the north, like not noticing the air?
Pretty much everywhere in the San Francisco bay area is sunny year round, except San Francisco itself. So if you have seasonal affective disorder, you could always just live in the east or south bay during the winter months. As a bonus you'd save on rent.