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Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

785 pointsby phenyleneover 11 years ago

99 comments

pgover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple&#x27;s reputation in the tech community than anything they&#x27;ve done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result.<p>Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out of a hole in that respect for several years. Now in my mind they are both the enemy.
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OoTheNigerianover 11 years ago
Anytime I see the latest &quot;outrage&quot; on HN, I laugh and remember us, citizens of my country that want to protest as long as they are not required to personally sacrifice too much.<p>Most of these companies depend on you hackers (I do not write code) to be successful. If you decide to pull your apps from the app store, stop buying their products and write a post telling everyone why you made the move, they will be hurt. Even if the embargo is for one year only!<p>But of course that will not happen. No one likes to be inconvenienced personally. It will mean loosing revenue. Other people (the EFF)should fight the battle. You donate your $10 to EFF and believe you have fought the good fight.<p>Nothing will come out of this. Google will band with a few chaps on the other side (Facebook Twitter etc), a few hundreds of millions will be spent on lawyers and they will settle in one way or the other. After all, they are working together on other schemes (just like the politicians).<p>Of course, Facebook will one day eliminate all privacy settings, or Google will put ads in our inbox and there will be outrage again.<p>Of course nothing will come out of it.<p>I try to limit my outrage these days. I suggest you should too.
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bpodgurskyover 11 years ago
I know it&#x27;s been said before, but to reiterate: outrage doesn&#x27;t help anything, but buying products from these companies DOES hurt. If you&#x27;re truly outraged enough to want to take action, take action<p>- writing to your representatives<p>- donating to the EFF or other organizations<p>- by not donating another $2k to Apple for a new Mac*, implicitly endorsing these bullshit tactics<p>- not developing for those platforms (App Store, etc)<p>Leaving comments here expressing outrage isn&#x27;t really helping.
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aspensmonsterover 11 years ago
Please, make it stop. Make it stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP. How many billions of dollars are these companies going to flush down the drain on legal fees that could be better spent doing just about anything else?<p>&gt;When Wired visited Rockstar&#x27;s Ontario headquarters, it found 10 reverse-engineering experts, working daily to take apart products and find patent infringement.<p>&gt;With just a few dozen employees, Rockstar is hoping to convince more than 100 technology companies to pay it patent licensing fees for a huge array of products. &quot;Pretty much anyone out there is infringing,&quot; said Rockstar&#x27;s CEO, John Veschi.<p>Oh fuck these guys.
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cromwellianover 11 years ago
I thought it was impossible to be more of a douchebag than Intellectual Ventures, but apparently, there&#x27;s a new winner in town. It was obvious when the Rockstar bid won and you looked at who made up the group, what was going to happen.<p>I used to get really angry and outraged when reading stories like this, but now I&#x27;m just resigned. Patent reform isn&#x27;t going to happen and this kind of predatory and unethical abuse of the system by sharks and parasites will continue as the cost of doing business.<p>One can only hope for karmic retribution one day.
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linuxhanslover 11 years ago
Somebody please show me a single patent on software or a so called business-process that is worth anything (i.e. not obvious to somebody skilled in the art).<p>Just one... I&#x27;ll shut up then.<p>Patents were supposed to encourage innovation, now they are doing the opposite (at least for software and business processes) and causing billions of wasted dollars and fat bonuses for patent lawyers.<p>This move seems a bit desperate to me. To avoid fair competition on products, MSFT and Apple are using patents that they did not even invent. Pathetic and despicable.
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confluenceover 11 years ago
Haha, when you have to sue your competitors to stop them from totally crushing you in business, it&#x27;s game over, you have already lost.<p>To be honest patents don&#x27;t protect shit and their only value is in protecting oneself from pointless litigation by losers. The only way to protect your margins from attack by the competition is to have a naturally defensible product that derives it&#x27;s value from the very nature of its use. Google search is naturally defensible. No one has their code (NDAs FTW!), and no one has the cash or the competence to build the computing infrastructure to serve that code. Microsoft Office&#x2F;Windows was naturally defensible thanks to the network effects generated by third party applications on the platform, until the Internet&#x2F;Linux destroyed that by being cheaper and faster. The iLine of products from Apple was naturally defensible for the same reasons as Windows, until Android ate their lunch, just like Windows ate Apple&#x27;s lunch back in the 1980s. Apple also cried like a bunch of babies way back then and sued Microsoft for eating their lunch using GUI patents.<p>&gt; <i>History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.</i><p>-- Mark Twain<p>If you&#x27;re in the tech world you’re mantra should be: innovate don&#x27;t litigate.<p>Apple and Microsoft, you have just shown that you&#x27;d rather litigate than innovate.<p>Whenever that happens in the tech world that means that you are done.
cafover 11 years ago
<i>&quot;Pretty much anyone out there is infringing,&quot; said Rockstar&#x27;s CEO, John Veschi.</i><p>Well, that&#x27;s pretty damning. If it&#x27;s true, then it indicates that the patents never should have issued in the first place. If the overwhelming majority of &quot;Anyone out there&quot; managed to independently re-invent these alleged &quot;inventions&quot; without reference to the patent, then that seems to point out that whatever inventive step may have been involved was obvious.
37primeover 11 years ago
Frank Shaw of Microsoft revealed that Google was invited to jointly bid Nortel’s Patent Portfolio but declined.<p><a href="http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/03/microsoft-just-kicked-google-in-the-nuts/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;08&#x2F;03&#x2F;microsoft-just-kicked-googl...</a> <a href="http://technologizer.com/2011/08/04/google-shows-how-not-to-complain-about-the-patent-mess/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;technologizer.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;08&#x2F;04&#x2F;google-shows-how-not-to-...</a><p>Take everything with at least a boulder of salt before turning to an emotional being.
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grejover 11 years ago
The patent system has been out of hand for a while but the big corporations haven&#x27;t complained too much about it because having huge patent portfolios themselves allowed them to build a virtual moat around their business units.<p>If things go nuclear and they start hemorrhaging even more legal fees, they may begin to exert more pressure to change the system.<p>Given some of the recent proposed legislation, hopefully the tide is turning against filing patent lawsuits as a business model.
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mythzover 11 years ago
What really sucks is how established multi-billion dollar companies are able to oppress smaller innovative ones from competing by simply using their cash war-chest to buy-up broad patent mine-fields around them. It especially sucks this is being done to stifle the momentum of one of the highest-growth markets the world has ever seen.<p>Patents were meant to protect the innovator, instead software patents are being used to legally harm competition they can&#x27;t compete against technically - hurting everyone except the status-quo.
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prawnover 11 years ago
<i>&quot;Google bid for the patents, but didn&#x27;t get them. Instead, they went to a group of competitors—Microsoft, Apple, RIM, Ericsson, and Sony—operating under the name &quot;Rockstar Bidco.&quot;&quot;</i><p>I feel like with those initials, they could&#x27;ve operated as &quot;REAMS&quot; instead. From Wiktionary, ream: &quot;(slang, vulgar) To sexually penetrate in a rough and painful way...&quot;
interpol_pover 11 years ago
This article is very emotionally loaded. Containing a lot of phrases designed to evoke an emotional response: &#x27;Nuclear&#x27;, &#x27;DEFCON 1&#x27;, &#x27;Attack&#x27;, &#x27;Shocking&#x27;.<p>It actually doesn&#x27;t mention what Rockstar is suing Google for (i.e., whether it&#x27;s monetary compensation, banning the sale of products, etc.) The article seems designed to get fans of these companies to react.<p>I think this will play out as a much more boring, lengthy, and anti-climactic fashion than this article implies.
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existenceboxover 11 years ago
As an engineer, I&#x27;m repulsed by the whole deal, to the point of feeling sick about it.<p>I&#x27;m going to get a lot of negative posts about hyperbole, but no, I legitimately get red in the face and get a headache whenever I think too hard about the patent wars. It is our fucking JOB to build things, to move technology forward, that is at least, my entire reason for being what I am.<p>so in my eyes at least; fuck the patent system; fuck the american built system for repressing innovation for &quot;corporate protections.&quot; We all argue about whether it&#x27;s a &quot;better or worse&quot; solution but at this point, when I spend 99% of my time hearing about the billions spent on suppressing innovation rather than supporting it, it makes me realize I want little to no part in the system that motivates this.<p>I will have no part of it. My code will be open. I will build things that I care about, and give them to the world, and hopefully work at a place that repays me for that (as I have found now.) Consider this my very ill-placed manifesto to in my own endeavors, support innovation, not the ill-gotten-gains of the future holder of my patents.<p>(I&#x27;m not sure if I put this here to get it out there; or for comments; or for thoughts; I think mostly I just feel that it needs to be said, although perhaps unnecessarily alongside an ocean of similar replies :P)
vincieover 11 years ago
Non-Americans watching this - make sure you organize however you can to stop the American disease spreading to your country. Watch your politicians carefully for any sign that they might want to implement their patent systems in your country. Good luck.
rurounijonesover 11 years ago
&#x27;One patent filed in 1997, for a &quot;navigation tool for graphical user interface,&quot; describes a way of navigating through electronic documents. Another describes an &quot;Internet protocol filter,&quot; and a third patent describes an &quot;integrated message center.&quot;&#x27;<p>Well with earth-shaking innovative patents like that I hope they succeed.<p>I would never have thought of an integrated message center for anything.
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plumeriaover 11 years ago
Easy people, just don&#x27;t buy Apple &#x2F; M$ products! They are trying to stop innovation...
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tluyben2over 11 years ago
Like many have said already; how do you vote with a wallet when there is not so much choice. I need a new laptop; my macbook, after many (by apple and by myself) repairs, is falling apart. It&#x27;s fast enough, but just broken. So I was going to get the 13 inch retina, but now I&#x27;m rethinking my position. But what is the alternative... I haven&#x27;t seen much yet. I want long battery life, i7 4th gen, 13 inch and at least retina resolution. So Pixel, Ativ 9 pro, Yoga 2 pro, ... ? But I also don&#x27;t want Windows; I don&#x27;t want to pay for it. Problem... I know the thinkpad t440s has long battery life, i7 4th gen, linux can be installed(still pay for windows), but the resolution (&amp; GPU) are simply too depressing.<p>The tablet + phone. Firefox phone; I&#x27;ll get one of those. Tablet? Are there any which you can buy <i>now</i>?<p>I really would just like to see Ubuntu on everything; tablet, phone and laptop, but I guess that&#x27;s not really an option. I say Ubuntu because it&#x27;s the most obvious; when Ubuntu is on there I know I can replace it with another Linux and I can customize it at least.<p>Like someone said; we cry here, but we all buy macbooks anyway. While a lot of us have the power to actually change things. If 100.000 people ask Lenovo for a Linux laptop, it&#x27;ll probably come. Besides MS pressure (which is probably 100% of the reason) I wouldn&#x27;t see why they wouldn&#x27;t all offer the choice. It&#x27;s just not popular enough; check any video on any startup site on HN: everyone has macbooks.
BenoitEssiambreover 11 years ago
This is nothing less than an attack on technology, innovation and engineering. They could try to compete by building better products and matching the level of openness of their competitor but they&#x27;d rather keep their platform closed so they can gouge their customers and use lawyers against anybody that doesn&#x27;t.<p>We live in a world where inventors can&#x27;t build anything that get&#x27;s them noticed by large established competitors without risking frivolous patent lawsuits on obvious concepts.
gueloover 11 years ago
In a just world Apple and Microsoft lose out on enough idealistic brilliant engineers over this that over time they decline and die.
Pxtlover 11 years ago
My Apple fanboy friends always try to argue how Apple&#x27;s hardware and software are superior, as if that&#x27;ll convince me that I should buy Apple gear.<p>I keep explaining the same thing: I know Apple makes the best stuff. I don&#x27;t avoid Apple because of quality considerations. I avoid Apple because they&#x27;re <i>screwing up the industry</i>, an industry I use for both my career and my hobbies.
yajoeover 11 years ago
Looks like Rockstar will be this generation&#x27;s SCO. It&#x27;s almost exactly the same tactic as last time, except now Microsoft isn&#x27;t even bothering to hide its role.<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;SCO%E2%80%93Linux_controversies</a>
r0h1nover 11 years ago
At the risk of downvotes &amp; personal dissonance (I love Android and Google search), I&#x27;d like to posit an alternate filter to apply to this news.<p>Given (a) Google&#x27;s inexorable rise and domination of more and more parts of the Internet &amp; mobile [0], and (b) the unwillingness or inability of regulators around the world to apply any kind of checks to its scary clout, could this - Rockstar - be a kind of defensive mechanism from the industry itself?<p>I&#x27;m not saying that Apple, Microsoft, RIM etc. are suing Google out of a greater sense of responsibility towards consumer choice, but can we not - as external observers - view their action as a countermeasure to one competitor&#x27;s overwhelming clout?<p>[0] <a href="http://blog.launch.co/blog/googlewinseverything-part-1.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.launch.co&#x2F;blog&#x2F;googlewinseverything-part-1.html</a>
dzinkover 11 years ago
This is a survival tactic for the consortium. If you look at the bunch - all of them have hardware businesses with margins that are getting continuously eroded by Google&#x27;s &quot;free by ads and cheap manufacturing&quot; model. If they don&#x27;t make it expensive for Google to erode mobile margins, they won&#x27;t last long in that market. The 0.01 Billion in bidding difference they got the patents with is quite suspicious too.<p>The real pickle stems from all of the money feeding the patent trolling business. That industry needs to die a quick death, and instead it is getting fed by the buckets. Who knows where it will spill to next (killing fledgeling hardware&#x2F;internet of things firms?).
DigitalSeaover 11 years ago
Wow, what a dog move. The fact they&#x27;re using Google&#x27;s attempt to bid for the patents originally against them is even worse. If this isn&#x27;t justification for serious patent reform, I don&#x27;t know what is. The fact the consortium that owns the patents is comprised of Google&#x27;s main competitors in many spaces should immediately ring alarm bells for any judge. This move surely must be anti-competitive, I hope Google fights this all of the way to the top (they&#x27;ve got enough cash).
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usefulcatover 11 years ago
The patent system probably added more value 200 years ago when the dissemination of knowledge was not nearly as easy or cheap as it is today. The reason for this, of course, is technology.<p>Looking at this situation from a very meta- perspective, I find it fascinating that what&#x27;s effectively happening is that the patent system is seeking to undermine the very technological forces that have made it less relevant. Almost like watching two different species compete against each other in nature.
josteinkover 11 years ago
&gt; &quot;Pretty much anyone out there is infringing,&quot; said Rockstar&#x27;s CEO, John Veschi.<p>And that&#x27;s the single best reason provided to end software patents once and for all.<p>When everyone is &quot;infringing&quot; without even knowing it, without reading the patent or without trying to copy someone else&#x27;s work, you should stop, take a step back, think about things, and realize the entire system is fundamentally broken.<p>Or if you have no soul, file a lawsuit and hope to make lots of free monies.
m0nasticover 11 years ago
Are technology companies eventually going to become like cell phone companies (or oil companies) where everyone sort of agrees that they all suck, but &quot;oh well, what are you going to do&quot;, or will some company become the de-facto &quot;conscientious choice&quot;?<p>I feel like there&#x27;s at least a bunch of &quot;companies&quot; on the software side of the equation who I don&#x27;t feel shitty about supporting, but I think the problem will be with hardware.
slantyyzover 11 years ago
I wonder... If Google were to pony up the cash to buy RIM, wouldn&#x27;t this lawsuit go away?
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throwawaykfover 11 years ago
Allow me to inject some perspective.<p>1) For all the talk of Microsoft and Apple &quot;abusing patents&quot;, it was actually <i>Google</i> that had to pay 14 million in damages for actually doing just that. Let&#x27;s just not forget that before deciding who should be &quot;alienating the tech community&quot;. However, Google&#x27;s PR really is very good, and unfortunately, most people here accept it without critical thought because it confirms their biases.<p>2) This is business, and business is war. Giving away Android for free was a direct attack on Microsoft&#x27;s and Apple&#x27;s business model. They are simply responding in kind. Most people here root for Google simply because they give away tons of really cool stuff for free, and&#x2F;or because they seem to be &quot;more aligned&quot; with free&#x2F;open source, which appears to be the dominant religion &#x27;round these parts. However, people elsewhere would see this as perfectly natural.<p>3) Google is very weak on the patent front, and they know it. So while they hustle to buy up patents from all sorts of sources, they simultaneously try to spin the patent system as &quot;broken&quot; and their own moves as &quot;defensive&quot; in an attempt to reduce their disadvantage in the long term. It may seem counter-intuitive: why simultaneously buy patents and work to weaken their value? Because buying patents is just a short term defensive move. In the long term, Google would be perfectly happy to not have a patent system at all because all their competitive advantage is locked away in their data centers. This is a luxury Apple and Microsoft do not have. They put out products that anyone anywhere can copy, so they would prefer having a patent system.<p>4) As mentioned below, Google had an option of joining the consortium, but decided to go it alone. Drummond&#x27;s blog post says it would not have helped Android, but that is very shallow reasoning. They could have always joined in and negotiated the rights to indemnify Android vendors in exchange for contributing a lot more towards the winning bid. Maybe the consortium would not have agreed to it -- we&#x27;ll never know, because Google peremptorily declined to join in. But I have no idea why they though they could outbid a consortium of multiple giants in the space.<p>5) As mentioned in TFA, there is some truth to the argument that Rockstar is actually independent of Microsoft and Apple. I know of patent trolls that have funding from e.g. hedge funds, but operate entirely independently. Heck, IV is a perfectly good example. They have funding from Google themselves, and yet they turned around and sued Motorola!<p>Now, allow me to address your theory: You posit that this may invoke the ire of the &quot;tech community&quot; and this would be a disadvantage to Apple and Microsoft. Some questionable assumptions:<p>1) The tech community in general has a similar world view as the HN (or is it SV?) bubble. Trust me on this, HN is an enormous echo chamber. If you ask software engineers outside this bubble -- which is, you know, most of the world -- about patents, you&#x27;ll get three responses:<p>a) &quot;What&#x27;s a patent?&quot; (No, really.)<p>b) &quot;I don&#x27;t mind patents.&quot;<p>c) &quot;Having a patent as an achievement!&quot;<p>2) The tech community, even if it does by some remote chance share your world view, <i>won&#x27;t care</i>. This is business as usual, and has historically always been so.<p>Now you may move the goal posts and say that by &quot;tech community&quot; you mean &quot;the good ones&quot;, the &quot;hackers&quot;. Again, I&#x27;m not so sure. Consider the NSA revelations: All the comments on HN are rife with outrage. Yet would you believe, even for a minute, that the NSA does not have the best of the best?<p>Edit: I really do not wish to come across as supporting one company over another, and hope to maintain a neutral tone. I think all the companies involved are perfectly good companies to work for, and perfectly justified in what they&#x27;re doing. I&#x27;m just trying to present a perspective that is somewhat lacking in most comments so far.
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grejover 11 years ago
You have to wonder what Microsoft&#x27;s goal is here, given that some estimates have them earning over $3B&#x2F;yr in licensing fees on Android sales.
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bad_userover 11 years ago
What I don&#x27;t understand is why in the world are companies allowed to buy patents in the first place? At the very least, patents should NOT be transferable.<p>How is it acceptable for companies with big pockets to simply buy 6,000 patents and then sue the shit out of whomever they don&#x27;t like?<p>I mean, to some degree, I accept that patents in the health-care industry are helping, because research labs spend years and enormous amount of money on research, with results that can be easily copied. And so they need the first mover advantage in bringing the product they researched on the market. It&#x27;s not perfect, but at least it has <i>some</i> economical and moral ground.<p>But how in the world is it acceptable for patents to be transferred, like they are assets? If you weren&#x27;t the one doing the research, then you shouldn&#x27;t be the one that benefits from a government-granted monopoly, no matter how much money you have.
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PeterisPover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m happy for patent war to go nuclear. It desperately needs reform and neutering; and if lawsuits like these can motivate some big-tech companies like, say, Google to start lobbying seriously for patent reform then this exactly what the world needs.<p>And by lobbying seriously I don&#x27;t mean a couple of million that were spent on some other activities - if such companies are eager to spend amount such as 4 billion or 12 billion on purchases that include zero benefit to their products&amp;customers, but simply as patent war ammunition&amp;defense; then I&#x27;d expect that they can easily spend hundreds of millions in campaign contributions to extuinguish the patent war as such.<p>We don&#x27;t need bigcorps accumulating frivolous patents to ensure mutually assured destruction - it doesn&#x27;t work that well as a deterrant, and it is used against smaller corporations. We need disarmament.
egggedover 11 years ago
Newegg can help...contact our legal counsel... don&#x27;t feed patent trolls...<a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/how-newegg-crushed-the-shopping-cart-patent-and-saved-online-retail/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;tech-policy&#x2F;2013&#x2F;01&#x2F;how-newegg-crushe...</a>
swat535over 11 years ago
It would be naïve to think they wouldn&#x27;t do this. Google would do it if they were in the same position. This is mostly a problem with the law, the fact that such a thing is possible is a problem.<p>Also, pretty much all these companies were invited to join Rockstar to buy the patents, including Google: <a href="http://www.techradar.com/.." rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.techradar.com&#x2F;..</a>. . Except Google decided that they wanted it all for themselves and went against the group, in the end they lost. The only reason to hold these patents are to basically sue other companies, the fact that Google bid against the group over and over again implies that if Google had gotten these patents they would have done exactly the same. So lets not pretend Google is a victim.
smegelover 11 years ago
&gt; a &quot;navigation tool for graphical user interface,&quot; describes a way of navigating through electronic documents. Another describes an &quot;Internet protocol filter,&quot; and a third patent describes an &quot;integrated message center.&quot;<p>Sigh. Where are my anti-depressants.
emhartover 11 years ago
There is something mildly sickening and darkly amusing that Microsoft and Apple apparently learned enough losing over half a billion dollars in patent lawsuits filed by McKool Smith, to then hire them when they were ready to go after their competitors with patent suits.
pasbesoinover 11 years ago
I have, perhaps, some degree of sympathy for compensating people whose significant work is subsequently, directly used.<p>I&#x27;m about done with, &quot;You can&#x27;t do it because I did it first.&quot;<p>The world wants to move forward. Your outsized self-interest, simply doesn&#x27;t interest me.
tracker1over 11 years ago
I would think that 4.4 billion could effectively fund congressional campaigns in a number of key districts.. which may be more effective use of said funds for Google at this point. If I were Google, I&#x27;d be funding an all out war on technology patents.
jemeshsuover 11 years ago
Easy people, don&#x27;t waste your emotional energy. Microsoft has been collecting Android licensing fee for years now. Apple has the objective to kill Androids. And you think Google don&#x27;t use patent to sue? These companies are all evils.
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adventuredover 11 years ago
If the Obama DOJ has any guts, they&#x27;ll break out the collusion section of anti-trust law and make some new anti-trust case law regarding multi-company patent offensives and the potential to cause harm to consumers.
nu2ycombinatorover 11 years ago
It is simple Microsoft and Apple are trying to get their paid 4.5Billion dollars from Google. It is a strategic mistake from Google side deciding not to be part of that team to buy the patents from Nortel.
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RyanMcGrealover 11 years ago
&gt; &quot;Pretty much anyone out there is infringing,&quot; said Rockstar&#x27;s CEO, John Veschi.<p>If &quot;pretty much anyone out there&quot; is breaking a law, that tells us there&#x27;s something wrong with the law.
firstOrderover 11 years ago
As someone wrote a century ago - &quot;Monopoly, it inevitably engenders a tendency of stagnation and decay...the motive cause of technical and, consequently, of all other progress disappears to a certain extent and, further, the economic possibility arises of deliberately retarding technical progress. For instance, in America, a certain Owens invented a machine which revolutionised the manufacture of bottles. The German bottle-manufacturing cartel purchased Owens&#x27;s patent, but pigeon-holed it, refrained from utilising it.&quot;
jrockwayover 11 years ago
At least the US and USSR realized what Mutually Assured Destruction actually meant. It seems these big companies don&#x27;t quite understand, and it&#x27;s going to be pretty sad when they find out.
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josephlordover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m going to hold judgement until I understand the size of licensing fees being requested (and if there is a separate FRAND rate for any Standards Essential Patents).<p>Google bid $4.4Bn for this portfolio so they must have see value and&#x2F;or danger in these patents. I disagree with the article&#x27;s statement that &quot;Google has plenty of patents&quot; as this doesn&#x27;t seem to the case in the current battles with Apple and Microsoft. The Motorola purchase doesn&#x27;t seem to have helped much in this area either.
zmmmmmover 11 years ago
It will be interesting to see how this goes now that it is (essentially) an all-American battle. The Samsung &#x2F; Apple suit was always complicated by suspicions about the jury, partly (but not only) because it seemed impossible for a US jury to take an unbiased view of a trial between such an emblematic American company and a foreign corporation. This one will be a much different contest and perhaps we have a better chance of seeing a real examination of the underlying patent issues occur.
kazagistarover 11 years ago
&gt; &quot;Pretty much anyone out there is infringing,&quot; said Rockstar&#x27;s CEO, John Veschi.<p>In other words, the law is totally useless and needs to be modified if not totally revoked ASAP.
tehabeover 11 years ago
The problem is not if Google or Apple, Microsoft &amp; Co. are good or evil. This patent war is evil, very evil. Because it could prevent companies like Jolla, Canonical or Mozilla to release their smart phone OS world wide.<p>Especially small companies won&#x27;t have a chance in a patent battle against a Apple, Microsoft or Google proxy.<p>That is the biggest problem, and the solution has to be political, it won&#x27;t be reached in the courts or on the market but in parliament.
eonilover 11 years ago
This is the disaster started by Google themselves. Also a reward for betraying friendly partner - especially who is not likely can take Google&#x27;s business, and even attacking them using new partner.<p>Now Google&#x27;s mates are only Samsung and telecoms which seems really not helpful on these kind of lawsuit or Google&#x27;s image.<p>See now what&#x27;s happening. Apple-Microsoft alliance against Google, Samsung and telecoms…? Am I alone feeling former team looks nicer?
LVBover 11 years ago
At my last job, 15 years ago, I was granted four patents. I also got a fancy engraved plaque for each one. I&#x27;ve since moved, and those plaques sit in unpacked boxes. My wife has occasionally pressed me to hang then up like I used to, when we both saw them as a point of pride. I have trouble explaining to her why they&#x27;re an embarrassment to me now, and that I&#x27;m not showing them off.<p>I&#x27;ll be happy when I see they&#x27;ve expired.
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erikbover 11 years ago
Great article!<p>Just as a side note: Because English is not my mother tongue I have problems to understand what the title actually wants to say, though. To me it sounds like Apple owns Microsoft, and Microsoft is Apple&#x27;s &quot;rockstar&quot; because it sues Google. So I wonder if some mother tongue speakers could verify that the title is actually understandable to them and explain what the title wants to say. Thanks!
beautybasicsover 11 years ago
- They are just accruing debt with their actions<p>- Their time will come and when it does it will be painful.<p>- Any system that&#x27;s inherently corrupt is bound to collapse.
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kriroover 11 years ago
I wonder how hard Canonical will get hit eventually if Ubunut Phone ever comes close to being viable.<p>But most importantly: lol software patents.<p>The twisted part in me hopes every single startup will get sued for all the amazing one-click patents and whatnot that they infringe upon as soon as they secure their first round of financing at some point. Maybe then something will change but I doubt it.
EGregover 11 years ago
I am shocked that Google&#x27;s &quot;ads in search&quot; business was patented before Google was founded, and no one ever asserted this patent. Bill Gross&#x27; overture said they never patented it.<p>Imagine for a second that Google will have to turn over a portion of the ads revenue from the past 10 years? It makes up 97% of their revenue...
clavalleover 11 years ago
If your patents are obvious enough that &#x27;everybody is infringing&#x27;, your patent should not have been issued.
neoviveover 11 years ago
Android has really been a source of innovation over the past few years. I would hate to see things take a step back. I recall a couple years ago, when Google had to remove the integrated search feature from Android -- that searched both local and online -- due to some IP infringement.
padrikasover 11 years ago
It looks to me that it is really a wrong system when you can buy patents only to sue someone in the future. And it rarely benefits people who create stuff If you could buy patents only to use them (but the ownership of a patent would not be transferable) there would be no patent trolls
timedoctorover 11 years ago
I think the ultimate outcome of this type of patent war is either: a) Re-examining the whole patent system to prevent this sort of attack b) Companies will have to re-locate to China or another country where US patents do not apply<p>It&#x27;s totally ridiculous to be sued for offering free software.
tehwalrusover 11 years ago
These patents are just &quot;adverts, but on the internet&quot; right? Exactly the sort of stuff that shouldn&#x27;t have been granted a Patent in the first place.<p>I hope google has the guts to use the &quot;invalid patent&quot; argument in court and rule this sort of nonsense invalid in future.
michaelfeathersover 11 years ago
Maybe the problem with patents is that they are transferrable property. What if patents were seen more as a license from the government to an inventor for a period of exclusivity? That would prevent the worst of this sort of stockpiling and weaponization.
beedogsover 11 years ago
I really wish they&#x27;d just nullify any patent granted that involves &quot;doing something commonplace <i>ON THE INTERNET!!!</i>&quot;, as if adding a tcp&#x2F;ip connection is something truly inventive or novel. Christ, this is getting out of hand.
hristiankover 11 years ago
&quot;The Rockstar consortium is an organization backed by Apple, Microsoft, BlackBerry, Ericsson and Sony.&quot;<p>Out of all these companies RIM (BlackBerry) is the only one up for &quot;sale&quot;.<p>How long until Google tries to buy itself a backdoor into the alliance?<p>I give them a couple of months.
Fundlabover 11 years ago
If patents are granted to drive innovation, how is Rockstar encouraging that in this case?
WaterSpongeover 11 years ago
We are all building software on the shoulders of giants but like to claim major pieces of glory once we grow into corporations. Remove a certain piece and like jenga it all falls down.<p>Some pieces protected by patents. Others patentable but never claimed.
locusmover 11 years ago
How does one keep up with new comments in a thread like this, wheres the sort by date?
shmerlover 11 years ago
Google should sue them for racket or find some other way to smash these trolls down.
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emehrkayover 11 years ago
It this not business as usual? Not saying it is &quot;right,&quot; but not saying that it is out of the norm. It seems to be an issue now that people(consumers, nerds, etc.) have emotional connections to these companies
ChrisNorstromover 11 years ago
??? They spent 4.5 billion on patents rather than invest in their own products. For all they know the patent system can completely change in the next 5 years, outlawing the kind of crap they&#x27;re pulling right now.
veganarchocapover 11 years ago
It seems to be these declining, nonreactive old-timers that seem to stay in authority by handing out court cases over arbitrary points.<p>They&#x27;re not protecting &#x27;their material&#x27;, they&#x27;re stiffing innovation.
Fuxyover 11 years ago
Anybody else seeing Google suing Microsoft and Apple directly in the future or is it just me?<p>This is battle stations and given Google doesn&#x27;t use shell companies they either make one or declare all out war.
tits_for_totsover 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t know why Google doesn&#x27;t just license these patents, it&#x27;s pretty critical to their business. They obviously thought so when they were bidding billions of dollars for them.
bramswensonover 11 years ago
Just keep overpaying for &quot;pretty&quot; hardware and a mediocre development environment and see where it gets us folks. Apple is just as bad as M$ ever was, they just have more style.
mchermover 11 years ago
I hope that they manage to ban the import and sale of ALL Android phones, iPhones, and Windows phones simultaneously.<p>I&#x27;m not sure what else might actually motivate Congress to change the law.
tariqrover 11 years ago
Sony, Microsoft, Ericsson, Apple and RIM. So basically, SMEAR.
acdover 11 years ago
I think software patents sucks! Software patents is a way for big corporations to keep smaller agile competitors off their turf creating monopolies &amp; oligopolies.
jmpeaxover 11 years ago
The real villains aren&#x27;t the companies involved in battles of fisticuffs, they are the corrupt or incompetent politicians who fail to abolish software patents.
Fizzadarover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s such a sad sight to see companies pour billions into damaging each other (and themselves) rather than innovating and creating new things.
NicoJuicyover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s quite easy, in the days, it was Apple vs the rest, and Apple got popular (Mac vs PC, ...)<p>Now, its Google versus the rest, we&#x27;ll see how this goes :)
ypcxover 11 years ago
So is it finally less expensive for Google to pay a lobbyist firm (hell, pay ALL the lobbyist firms) to significantly overhaul the patent law?
wmeredithover 11 years ago
&quot;Pretty much anyone out there is infringing,&quot; said Rockstar&#x27;s CEO, John Veschi.<p>Isn&#x27;t that the definition of a broken system of selection?
mydpyover 11 years ago
We need to treat the cause and not the symptom. Because really, if Google won this suit, they would most likely be trying the same tactics.
transfireover 11 years ago
I am surprise. There seems to be a lot of Google haters here. Tell me, would you be happier in a world without Google and Android?
josteinkover 11 years ago
OK. So does this once and for all end the debate about Apple being a proper patent-troll, or do they need to buy a bridge first?
wfunctionover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m extremely surprised no one&#x27;s mentioned the timing of the whole thing -- right before the Innovation Act.
CmonDevover 11 years ago
Well, perhaps in the spirit of knowledge sharing and to set an example Google could share their full search algorithm?
hect0rover 11 years ago
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Microsoft&#x2F;Apple moved beyond Google to target IBM.
1010011010over 11 years ago
Microsoft and Apple are assholes.
gesmanover 11 years ago
This is a chance for Obama to do the right thing to boost innovation and economy.
fppover 11 years ago
The key word in the title is nuclear - a war that no one can win
ChikkaChiChiover 11 years ago
This should make HP&#x27;s WebOS patent sale more competitive.
CmonDevover 11 years ago
Well, it is lawful - just like Google&#x27;s tax evasion.
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sethbannonover 11 years ago
Despicable. At least this is good news for patent reform.
ithinksoover 11 years ago
Oh you americans and your silly patents
alexeisadeski3over 11 years ago
Disgusting.
belgianguyover 11 years ago
For me this feels like it&#x27;s the famed &quot;Thermonuclear option&quot; Steve Jobs alluded to: two of the biggest tech giants and their ilk conspiring to KO a competitor in one of the most cowardly ways possible. As one shouldn&#x27;t make the assumption that Rockstar is looking to compete, Rockstar is looking to defeat. This all feels like instead of studying harder you pay off the schoolyard bully to go beat up that kid you don&#x27;t like because he gets better grades than you do.<p>Rockstar is not just a patent troll, it&#x27;s the Patent Troll King. It&#x27;s much larger, and has vastly more financial backing, most notably from Apple and Microsoft. It&#x27;s nearly invincible (as it can&#x27;t be counter-sued). Plus the case is filed in Eastern Texas, known to side with patent holders. Both companies have much cash in their coffers, and both are feeling the heat from Android. For Apple, the high-end Android devices eat into their margins. While Apple still is very profitable, Android&#x27;s break-neck pace forces them to come up with their own new features or risk looking dated, coupled with Android&#x27;s often better-specced phones that are cheaper than the iPhone. Although brand loyalty is shielding Apple from large shifts, it can&#x27;t afford to sit still. Microsoft on the other hand, is playing catch-up in Mobile after missing the boat miserably, and while the focus should be on making their own products better, they largely seem to have been industrious in harassing Android hardware manufacturers, plus employing some questionable PR-tactics to smear its competition. They&#x27;d both be relieved to see Android wither and die.<p>The tactic at the heart of the battle against Android seems to be the following: increasing Android Total Cost of Ownership by drowning it in patent licenses. This in an attempt to make it toxic to any OEM or potential Android partner (as they have to pay license fees, or could be sued to oblivion if they refuse), all in a bid to make Android less attractive (vis-a-vis e.g. Windows). I don&#x27;t know the might of Android&#x2F;Google, nor how much strength it&#x27;ll need to face off against the now teamed arsenals of both Apple and Microsoft. If Rockstar can string Android up with enough patent licenses, OEMs will bail, developers will leave and Android revenues will dry up. It&#x27;ll make a Windows license look cheap and safe in comparision. Then Microsoft can return to pointing and laughing at the open-source community, sit back and let their software rot once more as they just eliminated their direct competition. They&#x27;ll have some air fist-fights with Apple to seemingly &#x27;compete&#x27;.<p>What more is Rockstar than a hired gun they can sic on any software outfit that might prove competitive? What if Microsoft feels that Valve&#x27;s SteamBox is getting a little too much traction for their comfort, why wouldn&#x27;t they just send their bully after them? What if Ubuntu can cling on to some larger marketshare when it can smoothly switch between phone and desktop software? Why shouldn&#x27;t Microsoft try and hobble innovative efforts by letting Rockstar make the developers&#x27; lives a living hell? It&#x27;s more than sickening that some Microsoft&#x2F;Apple fans are already reacting all indignant and holier-than-thou now that their patent lackey has a Nortel patent on search, as if Google stole web-search from them all along, and they only just noticed it.<p>What can counter Rockstar? At what point is this hulking giant too big for the market it&#x27;s trying to disrupt? What stops this beast from going after any open source project that proves slightly popular? How can a developer rest easy at night, knowing that any day a Rockstar lawyer might be knocking on his&#x2F;her door, and that financial ruin lies ahead? Whether by lawyer fees after a Pyrrhic victory or after being shut down because he&#x2F;she was found to infringe on something so very basic a child of five years old could have figured it out? John Vesci himself said that &#x27;Pretty much anybody out there is infringing&#x27;, meaning that any company name that gets in their sights, they can take apart.<p>Is that furthering the sciences? Is that what passes for innovation nowadays? As a developer, this makes me sick to my stomach. But the system allows it, and there&#x27;s been too much financial profitability to get this genie back in the bottle, so the odds of reform happening before this warhead hits are slim. Even if it were to happen, it&#x27;ll be thoroughly undressed and defanged before being applied to any case worth its salt.
nutancover 11 years ago
#IgnoreLaughFightWin, we are now at the fight stage for Android and you know what comes next
FridayWithJohnover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m busy reading &quot;The Masters of Doom&quot;. Here is a little snippet all about patents with one of the world&#x27;s best developers of all time, John Carmack. &quot;Carmack turned red. “If you ever ask me to patent anything,” he snapped, “I’ll quit.” Al assumed Carmack was trying to protect his own financial interests, but in reality he had struck what was an increasingly raw nerve for the young, idealistic programmer. It was one of the few things that could truly make him angry. It was ingrained in his bones since his first reading of the Hacker Ethic.&quot;<p>As a developer there is nothing more destructive than to be be told you can&#x27;t do that... it is similar to what I did.<p>Could you imagine what would happen if someone put a patient on breathing?
leeoniyaover 11 years ago
i know this will get downvoted, and i&#x27;ve avoided doing this until now, but it&#x27;s just too appropriate here<p><a href="http://images.wikia.com/random-ness/images/3/34/Michael_Jackson_popcorn.gif" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;images.wikia.com&#x2F;random-ness&#x2F;images&#x2F;3&#x2F;34&#x2F;Michael_Jack...</a>
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