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Why having an MBA is a negative hiring signal for startups (2012)

111 pointsby jkwover 11 years ago

35 comments

ssharpover 11 years ago
The author went through the trouble of saying he&#x27;d eliminate straw-man arguments at the beginning of the piece and then spent the rest of the piece rebuilding the straw man with gems like &quot;MBA thinking&quot; and &quot;MBA&#x27;s are entitled&quot;, &quot;MBAs think they&#x27;re special snowflakes&quot;.<p>If you&#x27;re hiring, particularly in a startup, you owe it to yourself and your company to carefully consider qualified applicants. Yes, hiring signals exist, but all signals are not equal. Placing too much negative value on a person achieving a Masters degree can easily turn out to be a mistake.<p>I also don&#x27;t buy the opportunity cost argument. Does the author examine every line of every resume to determine what the applicant <i>could</i> have been doing instead and gives the best score to the applicant who left the least on the ground? Or is this pedantic behavior executed exclusively on MBAs, because they deserve the stereotype?<p>I question the value of yet another article like this. It&#x27;s just amplifying the noise in the echo chamber. The author states he knows several MBAs who have worked at or founded successful startups. Why not write about that instead of rehashing the same, dull, unsupported claims?
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marcus_holmesover 11 years ago
I am starting my own startup, am very active in my startup community, and I&#x27;m just about to finish my MBA.<p>Why? none of the reasons in the article.<p>I&#x27;m a code monkey, I&#x27;ve been coding for over 30 years. But in my career in IT I&#x27;ve found that the hard problems are not the tech problems. The hard problems are the people problems, and most of them derive from communication difficulties between the finance&#x2F;biz world and the actual implementation required.<p>Finance and biz types are not going to learn to code, because whatever. So if anyone&#x27;s going to solve the communication problem it&#x27;s going to have to be me, by learning finance and biz speak.<p>I wouldn&#x27;t recommend it for everyone. But it&#x27;s doing the job I intended it to do. I find that just the knowledge that I am studying an MBA has a dramatic effect on attitudes around me; I&#x27;m no longer just a code monkey technician type who isn&#x27;t qualified to have an opinion.
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kriroover 11 years ago
Disclaimer: I&#x27;m just rambling but with this disclaimer it&#x27;s not a rant.<p>MBA: bad, PhD: bad, I get it. CS-degrees are horrible because you could have build an entire company in the time it takes to get one of those post has to be around the corner.<p>Those MBA folks are too dumb to understand that startups are different than big corporations (or in other words they can&#x27;t pick up any of the lean XXX books and read the first 10 pages). Amazing that evil Wall Street is willing to hire such morons let alone pay them enough money to be too demanding on average. Those snobby old MBAs and their entitled friends, those networks could never be useful either.<p>Putting a disclaimer at the beginning of a post doesn&#x27;t turn it into less of a rant.
7Figures2Commasover 11 years ago
Why having a CS degree is a negative hiring signal (for startups)<p><i>Supply and Demand</i><p>There are some basic supply and demand issues for CS graduates. On the supply side, a surprising number of jobs are at angel and venture-backed startups that are burning through cash to pay &quot;market rates&quot; for engineering &quot;talent&quot; and likely won&#x27;t be around in five years. On the demand side, while there is <i>currently</i> significant demand for candidates with CS degrees, if you didn&#x27;t graduate from a top CS program and&#x2F;or don&#x27;t excel at FizzBuzz, your options may be limited.<p><i>Entitlement</i><p>CS graduates think of themselves as special snowflakes, future Mark Zuckerbergs, worthy of extremely high compensation and authority.<p><i>Misguided Thinking</i><p>&quot;CS thinking” involves putting all of the value in technology and then, when it doesn&#x27;t sell itself, scrambling to find a &quot;growth hacker&quot; who can take it to market. When that fails, &quot;lean startup philosophy&quot; suggests that you pseudo-scientifically iterate over and over again until your angel investor&#x27;s money is depleted.<p><i>Selection Bias</i><p>Because building functional CRUD applications that offer value doesn&#x27;t require a CS degree, it really bears examining a person&#x27;s motivation for getting one. Was it because he or she is more interested in the theoretical than the practical? Is the individual going to make decisions based on what is best for the business or on what technology or approach is sexiest? Will he or she be able to compromise when business needs dictate compromise?<p><i>Limited usefulness</i><p>How many startups ever need someone who can reproduce common algorithms that every popular programming language has functions for?<p><i>Opportunity Cost</i><p>The time someone spent getting a CS degree was time they could have spent actually developing domain expertise.
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zacinbusinessover 11 years ago
There is a big anti-intellectualism trend happening in the US right now. It&#x27;s a lot like the sort of &quot;hate&quot; that the humanities gets these days as being somehow less important than the STEM disciplines. It started with art programs, and then philosophy, then English, then languages, and I imagine it will spread until there are only a few, if any, majors and degrees that are actually &quot;valued.&quot;<p>This is in a country with a pitifully low literacy rate.<p>Both my wife and I are very luck - we both have MAs in English (she focusing on rhetoric and I on technical communication) and we each landed great, full-time employment in our fields.<p>Still, we have friends with similar degrees and focuses that work in the same jobs they had when starting college, or worse are without employment at all.
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InTheSwissover 11 years ago
Apple&#x27;s marketing has obviously worked better on me than I thought. I instantly translated MBA to Mac Book Air! I don&#x27;t even own any Apple devices!
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bluedevil2kover 11 years ago
Wow, what an incredibly stereotyped article. Absurd generalizations, biased opinion without any facts backing it up. It reads like it&#x27;s written by someone who didn&#x27;t get accepted into their #1 choice of grad school.
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RyanZAGover 11 years ago
<i>&gt; Born in El Paso, Texas, Caldwell graduated from Stanford University in 2003 with a B.S. in Symbolic Systems and a B.A. in Psychology</i><p>Opportunity cost...? What makes having a B.A. in Psychology not a negative hiring signal too? He could have been getting a business degree which would have helped him know more about accounting! Etc.<p>Feels like a pretty silly argument. An MBA is generally going to be more likely to be successful than a non-MBA in running a business, startup or not. It might not be worth the kinds of salaries an MBA would demand, but a negative? Feels a bit anti-intellectual. More knowledge is always better.
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jackgaviganover 11 years ago
Disclaimer: I have an MBA.<p>Dalton&#x27;s full of shit.<p>I could just as easily write a diatribe about developers who think of themselves as special snowflakes, future unicorn founder&#x2F;CEOs, worthy of extremely high compensation and autonomy, yet have zero clue about business, can&#x27;t deliver a finished product to save their life and have no appreciation for the importance of usability when it comes to creating a product aimed at users who don&#x27;t have a CompSci degree.<p>During my stint as CTO of a dot-com back in 1999&#x2F;2000, I realised that there was a lot I didn&#x27;t know about running a business, strategy, marketing, business development, finance, cash flow planning, accounting, cap tables, negotiation and all the other little things that add up to a successful venture. So, I decided to go to business school. But guess what? A lobotomy wasn&#x27;t on the curriculum. I can still knock together a shell script, tail -f a logfile and pipe it through grep, get some vague clue about why something crashed by casting my eye over a Java exception error, and make a lazy developer deeply uncomfortable when he realises that - would you believe it! - this particular MBA actually knows what exception handling is and wants to know why the fuck we&#x27;re not doing it.<p>Going to business school and getting an MBA added many new arrows to my quiver but it didn&#x27;t take any away. It didn&#x27;t narrow my horizons - it broadened them. The idea that an MBA can never be of any value to anything other than a large corporation is as ridiculous as the idea that a coder who learnt Java and the Waterfall method at college will never be able to learn Objective C and cope with Agile. True, some won&#x27;t be able to but that doesn&#x27;t mean that all won&#x27;t.<p>MBA curricula are often perceived as out of date because the content must be approved as part of the academic accreditation process. As a result, they often don&#x27;t incorporate the latest business methodologies. Whether that&#x27;s a good or a bad thing depends on whether the latest business thinking is merely a fad or something that will last as long as Clayton Christensen&#x27;s theory of disruption. But, either way, graduating from business school doesn&#x27;t mark the end of the learning process. My copy of Eric Ries&#x27; &quot;The Lean Startup&quot; occupies the same shelf as &quot;Strategic Management&quot; by Saloner, Shepard and Padolny, &quot;Let Me People Go Surfing&quot; by Yvon Chouinard, &quot;Against The Gods: The Remarkable Story of Risk&quot; by Peter L Bernstein and John W Mullins&#x27; &quot;The New Business Road Test&quot;. My last two Kindle purchases were Brad Feld&#x27;s &quot;Startup Communities&quot; and &quot;Four Steps to the Epiphany&quot; by Steve Blank.<p>Dalton claims that, &quot;to an MBA Strategy &gt; Implementation&quot; but it&#x27;s truer to say that, to an MBA, Strategy comes before Implementation. To do the reverse, implementing blindly and pivoting wildly, is akin to blindly throwing darts at a dartboard - eventually one of them will end up in the bullseye but that isn&#x27;t necessarily proof that the thrower is anything other than lucky.<p>Dalton&#x27;s entitled to his prejudice. If he wants to take the shortcomings of a subset of MBAs and apply those as a stereotype across the entire population, that&#x27;s his prerogative. However, to make broad, sweeping generalisations about someone based on a single fact - whether it&#x27;s the fact that they have an MBA, what school they went to or the colour of their skin - is pretty foolish because the exceptions will bite you on the ass. For every lame MBA, there&#x27;s a Sheryl Sandberg or Alexis Maybank. For every team of MBA founders with all the strategy and no product, there&#x27;s a Matthew Prince and Michelle Zatlyn, who came up with the idea for CloudFlare at Harvard Business School[1], or a Neil Blumenthal, who attributes much of Warby Parker’s success to his and his co-founders’ experiences at business school, which Blumenthal described as &quot;the most helpful and useful of any of my educational background.&quot;[2]<p>And, for every lame MBA, there are likely dozens of developers who scoff at the notion that building a successful company requires anything other than the ability to code, and certainly none of that crap they teach you in business school. Of course, if that were true, we&#x27;d have many more billion-dollar startups and far fewer founders making schoolboy errors that could have been easily avoided.<p>Maybe if Dalton had taken a few classes in strategy and marketing, Wired wouldn&#x27;t be writing about &quot;The Great App.net Mistake&quot;.[3]<p>[1]: <a href="http://www.cloudflare.com/our-story" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cloudflare.com&#x2F;our-story</a><p>[2]: <a href="http://pandodaily.com/2013/08/29/warby-parker-the-result-of-a-perfectly-calcuated-mba-machine/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pandodaily.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;08&#x2F;29&#x2F;warby-parker-the-result-of-...</a><p>[3]: <a href="http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/08/the-great-app-net-mistake/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;gadgetlab&#x2F;2013&#x2F;08&#x2F;the-great-app-net-mis...</a>
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data_appover 11 years ago
If MBA is such a negative hiring signal (for startups) - why do I see so many MBAs in startups? The data shows that there are as many MBAs as PhDs or Masters. (% working in startups vs total pool).<p>Just like a degree in computer science teaches you the inner workings of a computer, a degree in business administration teaches you how to run a business. How can that knowledge be invaluable in a startup?<p>I do believe that certain segment (including the author) of the population has a strong negative bias against MBAs but majority aren&#x27;t... Most mature+experienced tech founders understands the value of an MBA degree and even if they don&#x27;t, they treat it as any other degree...
GuerraEarthover 11 years ago
&quot;Thus one primary motivation of an MBA is to secure their own massive salary, stock and title… and this motivation is diametrically opposed to the psychological makeup of a succesful startup team-member.&quot;<p>--I had to re-choose my co-founder because I found this to be an exact fit of my situation. The person with the MBA felt entitled to everything but would not do any of the hardcore work involved. In fact, at Columbia U, I know tonnes of MBA students and they all have the same characteristic described in Dalton&#x27;s article.<p>$$$ glisten in their irises whenever they talk about startups. For me, someone who has no MBA and would not get an MBA if it were the only academic degree on the planet, a startup is about the 24&#x2F;7 work involved to create and nurture a good, innovative, useful and interesting toy that can do big things for other people. But that is why in the world, we need a million flowers blooming. People are supposed to be different. Variety is good. But as an initial co-founder, someone with an MBA--chances are--isn&#x27;t the best choice, according to my experience most humble. : )
ig1over 11 years ago
The author makes the mistake of thinking &quot;MBA&quot; == &quot;CEO&#x2F;CFO&quot; - there are huge number of MBAs working in marketing, business development, sales, etc. all of which are skills that can be invaluable to a startup.<p>Ironically he recommends a Masters in CS over an MBA and then talks about lean startup philosophy, a philosophy that places business development and product management above development.
pjanover 11 years ago
&quot;Why having an over-simplified title&#x2F;line-of-thought gets you more clicks&quot;<p>An MBA doesn&#x27;t invalidate their previous experience. An MBA doesn&#x27;t specialise a person or decreases his&#x2F;her usefulness to only C-level positions (quite the opposite in my opinion, as they often acquire additional skills). An MBA doesn&#x27;t make you a strategy guy&#x2F;girl per se or makes you less an implementation person.<p>Apart from the social pressure one -might- experience because of their achieving peers (and maybe even the financial pressure to pay off their debt), I only believe it increases a person&#x27;s skills (be it soft, finance, ...)<p>Eventually, it always boils down to peoples motivations to join X or Y. An MBA should at most encourage you (the recruiter&#x2F;hiring person&#x2F;... to ask some other questions during the hiring process.<p>Next in the series I expect:<p>&quot;Why having worked for McK&#x2F;BCG&#x2F;Bain is a negative hiring signal (for startups)&quot;<p>&quot;Why having investment banking experience is a negative hiring signal (for startups)&quot;<p>&quot;Why having studied law is a negative hiring signal (for startups)&quot; ...
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Zakover 11 years ago
First off, I&#x27;d like to get a few straw-man argumetns out of the way. I&#x27;m not saying MBAs are bad. I&#x27;m not saying startups should not hire people with MBAs. I&#x27;m not saying there are not numerous counter-examples to the points I make below. In fact, I personally know several people with MBAs that work at or have founded fantastic startups. I have hired &amp; worked closely with individuals with an MBA several times, and will continue to do so if I think the individual is a good fit. Remember, a hiring signal is just that: a signal. Other examples of negative hiring signals are: “earned CS degree from school that advertises on late-night television”, “worked at 4 companies in 3 years” or “2 year gap on the resume with no explanation”. Any positive or negative hiring signal is WAY less important than specific information about a specific candidate.<p>Now that that is out of the way, let’s get to the point: If a person has a particular skill-set, experience, personality &amp; undergraduate education, that person choosing to buy an MBA has the net effect of the startup market valuing that person as being worth less, not more.<p>Why?<p><i>Supply and Demand</i><p>There are some basic supply and demand issues for MBAs. On the supply side, there is a surprising abundance of people with MBAs who want to work at startups. On the demand side, a candidate with those three little letters on their laptop will need to be vetted more closely and will be automatically isolated into a small number of highly-specialized potential roles.<p><i>Entitlement</i><p>Apple trains people to think of themselves as special snowflakes, future masters of business, worthy of extremely high compensation and authority. Thus one primary motivation of an MBA owner is to secure their own massive salary, stock and title… and this motivation is diametrically opposed to the psychological makeup of a successful startup team-member. Given the social pressure MBA owners must feel from their coffee shop friends, we can’t really blame them; it’s human nature 101.<p><i>Misguided Thinking</i><p>In my opinion, the lean startup movement, startup genome project, etc have roared into existence as an antidote to &quot;MBA thinking.&quot; &quot;MBA thinking&quot; involves putting all of the value in high level design, which is then rolled out to underlings who are responsible for actual implementation. In other words to an MBA owner Design &gt; Implementation.<p>Lean startup philosophy suggests all of this design stuff is misguided bullshit, and rather you should personally build things as quickly and as cheaply as possible then scientifically iterate over and over again. To an early stage startup Implementation &gt; Design.<p><i>Selection Bias</i><p>It really bears examining a persons motivation for getting an MBA. Was it so they could skip ahead to get rich? Because they wanted to be powerful? Because they hated their job and showing off in coffee shops was a good way out? Because they originally wanted to work at 37 Signals but are only now considering your startup because they heard that your&#x27;re building the successor to Ruby on Rails?<p><i>Limited usefulness</i><p>If someone is on a startup career track that is in design or high-level architecture, an MBA makes a lot of sense. For instance, a smart startup founder might want their lead designer to have an MBA. But how many startups ever get big enough to need a lead designer? How many high-level design gigs are actually out there? This is a very shallow pool to swim in.<p><i>Opportunity cost</i><p>The time someone spent getting an MBA was time they could have spent installing Linux on a Thinkpad. Losing two inches of screen real estate puts you at a clear disadvantage vs someone with the same CPU who can actually see a decent amount of code at once.<p><i>A thought experiment</i><p>Imagine that if instead of getting an MBA, ambitious young over-achievers spend two days upgrading and configuring their hardware and software. Or two days building a desktop. Or two days shopping around to see what else they could get for the same price.<p>Who would be worth more in the open market when all is said and done? Who would have a better chance of building their own great company?
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dmk23over 11 years ago
I am the last person to defend the idea of hiring MBAs for sake of hiring MBAs, but the author really loses me with the last two paragraphs.<p><pre><code> Imagine that if instead of getting an MBA, ambitious young over-achievers spent two years in design school. Or spent two years getting a masters in computer science. Or two years getting into Y-Combinator and doing their own startup. Who would be worth more in the open market when all is said and done? Who would have a better chance of building their own great company? </code></pre> The problem with MBAs is that they are oftentimes too expensive &#x2F; not the right fit for startup roles &#x2F; environment, not that they have limited career prospects.
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fizxover 11 years ago
Group cohesion often benefits from choosing a nemesis and creating a straw boogeyman--a rallying cry for the group to fight against.<p>Rubyists hate Java with all of its J2EE and XML configuration (never mind that Rails is at least as complicated, and Java moved on a long time ago). Certain religious groups hate gay people, with their immoral acts in the streets and the corrupting of the young (I hope I don&#x27;t have to explain why this is BS).<p>And startup people have their boogeyman: the clueless MBA asshole stereotype.<p>Learn to see beyond this. There is always some fragment of truth in stereotypes, but it&#x27;s more useful to understand why these articles are written.
erikbover 11 years ago
There should be an article &quot;Why it is a negative application signal if the HR worries about MBAs (in startups)&quot;. Seriously, there are so many articles out there about this topic. But I don&#x27;t think there is any good startup team that worries about any of the certificates you can provide. Startup is a game of street smarts. So street cred should count. Having done something cool should count. Having worked with someone cool should count. Being resilient should count. But definitely not having one or another paper.
qwertaover 11 years ago
Perhaps MBAs require higher compensation without delivering higher value.
bigchewyover 11 years ago
One of the nice things about having an MBA is that you learn to construct an argument based on facts, not conjecture. OP would likely be much more persuasive if he had gone to B School.<p>As a result of B School, I am not nearly as opinionated as I once was, until I can cite data to support my conclusions.
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matttyover 11 years ago
A useful counterpoint from Ben Horowitz: <a href="http://bhorowitz.com/2012/05/18/is-now-the-time-to-hire-mbas/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bhorowitz.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;05&#x2F;18&#x2F;is-now-the-time-to-hire-mbas...</a>
noonespecialover 11 years ago
Using &quot;signals&quot; is always a risk because you might very well be cutting yourself off from a talented pool of people that <i>will</i> be available to your competitors who aren&#x27;t so choosy. This is exactly why BigCo&#x27;s that use resume buzzword bingo to do all their hiring are so tragically bad at finding anything better than mediocre talent.<p>The question is whether a particular signal, on the balance, produces better results for less effort than simply vetting the candidates the old-fashioned way.
melindajbover 11 years ago
I&#x27;d argue that this post in itself violates the &quot;shallow&quot; prohibition on Hacker News. It&#x27;s like a religious or political debate.<p>But for the record, once one starts generalizing an entire class of people, it&#x27;s a slippery slope: I hate MBAS -&gt; I hate Marketers --&gt; I hate women.<p>see: <a href="https://medium.com/about-work/aa49dffc975d" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;about-work&#x2F;aa49dffc975d</a><p>There are shitty devs just like there are shitty MBAs. And that&#x27;s where I&#x27;ll leave it.
chatmanover 11 years ago
Yeah, MacBook Air owners shouldn&#x27;t be hired as well. :-P
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nlover 11 years ago
<i>I already talked about combining an undergrad engineering degree with an MBA. I&#x27;ll hire as many of those people as I possibly can.</i><p>Marc Andreessen<p><a href="http://pmarchive.com/guide_to_career_planning_part2.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pmarchive.com&#x2F;guide_to_career_planning_part2.html</a>
drp4929over 11 years ago
In 90s, technical founders were able to launch startups successfully if they were technically strong. Getting designer was not top priority at the time. So everyone focused on having strong technical teams.<p>Eventually, people figured out that having someone with design skills early on your team can provide huge competitive advantage to your startup against tech only competitors. And today designer&#x27;s role is very prominent in startup world.<p>Now all startups have technical and designing strengths on their team from day one, what do you need to stay one step ahead of the crowd ?<p>I have a feeling that code-wizard + design-guru team won&#x27;t be good enough in near future.
mlchildover 11 years ago
I am, to some degree, running the concluding thought experiment in real life—I dropped out of business school to try to build my own company. (Left after one year, at least partial credit?)<p>Some thoughts:<p>—I can&#x27;t speak to how widespread the entitled-MBAs-in-startup-roles (no direct experience) problem is, but MBAs definitely have good job prospects (in the traditional sense), which has made it much harder for me to convince former classmates to &quot;take the leap&quot; and try to start companies instead.<p>—At least on the West Coast, the startup classes treat leanness as a central principle. I didn&#x27;t meet many MBAs (especially ones who took those classes) who believed strategy could be laid out and then executed by underlings. Your mileage may vary.<p>—I went to business school because I wanted to get out of the consulting job I didn&#x27;t like, and loved technology and wanted to move to the Bay Area. That said, it didn&#x27;t sit well with me that I didn&#x27;t pursue my dream and try to start a company instead of going, which made me unhappy all year. The question of what motivated someone to go to b-school is generally a good one, though, as most MBAs will gleefully admit that their goal was to spend two years kicking back at &quot;summer camp for adults.&quot;<p>—The limits to the degree&#x27;s usefulness, in my opinion, come from the fact that much of the good learning is in the hard-won experience of visiting founders and leaders (a la Startup School speakers). Unfortunately, to quote Clayton Christensen: “Questions are places in your mind where answers fit. If you haven’t asked the question, the answer has nowhere to go...You have to ask the question – you have to want to know – in order to open up the space for the answer to fit.”[1] I often felt like visiting speakers were giving good advice, but that I didn&#x27;t have the place in my mind for the answer to fit yet. Another reason to try to start something and accumulate better questions.<p>The opportunity cost was the strongest motivator for me. As a twenty-something tech nerd, another year felt like an eternity. And I&#x27;m already five months better at programming and building a product than I would have been. Which feels like a win vs. another piece of paper.<p>I deeply believe my cofounder and I have a better chance of success because we took this path instead (he quit his job). I guess we&#x27;ll be one more piece of data for the experiment in a few years.<p>P.S. We joke around about our travails once a week at <a href="http://uncannyvolley.com/why-not-combinator-podcast/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;uncannyvolley.com&#x2F;why-not-combinator-podcast&#x2F;</a> if you&#x27;re bored.<p>[1] <a href="http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3225-what-are-questions" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;37signals.com&#x2F;svn&#x2F;posts&#x2F;3225-what-are-questions</a>
jroseattleover 11 years ago
I disagree with the generalization of this post.<p>If there is anything I&#x27;ve learned in my career at multiple startups, it&#x27;s this: credentials have little-to-zero effect on success.<p>The fact that a person might have an MBA, or a PhD, or a commercial driver&#x27;s license (I hired an awesome dev who had one of these), has zero correlation to success or failure.<p>In my experience, what matters is the person, not the label.
Keyframeover 11 years ago
BS article. Early startup needs dedicated people that can bring both product and strategy to life, doesn&#x27;t matter if they are MBAs, MBPs, McRibs, whatever.
plgover 11 years ago
Duh I thought from the title MBA == MacBook Air
austinhutchover 11 years ago
Breaking news: HN hates MBAs.
rjohnkover 11 years ago
What, are we supposed to use Dells or something? Ha! Get it? :&#x2F;
janogonzalezover 11 years ago
Then it&#x27;s time to switch to MacBook Pro?
jonnathansonover 11 years ago
I have an MBA, fwiw.<p>Dalton leaves off what I&#x27;d consider to be the biggest red flag: risk aversion. Many MBAs are risk averse. They are career-track professionals. They are box checkers. They are bullet-point collectors. A lot of them are extremely smart, and the ones from the top-tier programs are among the hardest working sons of bitches you&#x27;ll ever meet. These were the kids who ground their asses off in high school and undergrad, and who will (generally) land lucrative, but safe careers continuing to apply the same grind-and-optimize strategies that got them through school. They do well in regimented, structured environments where there are frameworks, processes, known inputs, etc. They flourish in career tracks that resemble academic environments: where there are &quot;grades,&quot; tracks, clear progression, etc.<p>A lot of engineers are the exact same way, for what it&#x27;s worth. They don&#x27;t have a monopoly on risk-taking any more than MBAs have a monopoly on risk aversion. Nevertheless, as a general rule, an MBA is not a degree one pursues if one is seeking risk or adventure (and I&#x27;d argue that the same could be said of <i>any</i> master&#x27;s degree).<p>I&#x27;d almost require an MBA of a CFO, COO, or CEO that I&#x27;m bringing on board to scale up a business or take the helm of a mature business. But I would be a little uneasy about an MBA&#x27;s founding a tech startup from the ground up. That&#x27;s not to say that MBAs can&#x27;t do the latter, or are necessarily good at the former. But there&#x27;s a correlation. (MBAs are perfectly capable of starting non-tech businesses, however, and often do. But to found a tech startup, the MBA would really need to be technical to a high degree.)<p>A startup founder needs to be risk-seeking, and to whatever extent he or she has collected a bunch of degrees, that&#x27;s a pattern of risk-averse behavior. It&#x27;s an indicator. I still think such a person could make a great fit working <i>at</i> a startup, provided the entitlement issue isn&#x27;t there (which it really is for a lot of folks, owing in large part to the expense of the degree). But as a founder? I&#x27;d be a little leery.<p>MBA programs are changing these days, and it needs to be said. A lot of them are adopting Lean Startup methodologies, or refocusing on innovation, or encouraging and teaching entrepreneurship (to whatever extent the latter can be taught, which I&#x27;d guesstimate to be maybe 50-60%). Today&#x27;s MBAs are not your grandfather&#x27;s MBAs. They&#x27;re not the 1990s tech-bubble MBAs, either. Nevertheless, a lot of them are not risk takers.<p>The ones who are? Give them a fair shot. You&#x27;d be surprised. They are incredibly smart, well trained, quantitatively analytical, and make great marketers, biz dev &amp; corp dev types, CFOs, and operations managers. Few of them walk into startups expecting $200k + signing bonus + equity the way they might have 20 years ago. That stereotype is out of date. But if a well-qualified candidate shows up at your door with realistic expectations about the job, the title, the compensation, and so forth: I see nothing wrong there. He or she has self-selected out of entitlement issues. (On the flip side, spotting the entitled ones -- MBAs or otherwise -- is fairly easy.)
michaelochurchover 11 years ago
The major point here is the selection bias. What does it say if someone has a Stanford MBA and is applying for a subordinate role (with sub-5% equity) at your startup, instead of private equity jobs? If you aren&#x27;t making $500k per year (including bonus, and with carried interest) two years after graduating from Harvard or Stanford business school, you&#x27;re considered a failure-- unless you&#x27;re founding a wildly successful startup. In the MBA crowd, startups attract people who failed to get a toehold in the more traditional business world, and are looking for second chances. Yes, you&#x27;ll have to fly commercial for a few years, but you might become a billionaire.<p>The Columbia MBA who becomes the VP&#x2F;Finance of your dopey startup (instead of going <i>directly</i> into the smoke-filled rooms and half-million salaries) is going to have a gigantic chip on her shoulder, guaranteed, because she had to be in the bottom 5% of her class to be there.<p>If you want to be an attractive candidate for startups, and you have an MBA, first you need to succeed on the MBA track for a good 5-10 years, then you need to make a credible case that you&#x27;ve genuinely decided (after a few wins) that you want to take your life -- and that you&#x27;re not just some carpetbagger who failed out of &quot;real business&quot; and is using the startup world to get a second chance.<p>Also, I have to agree that business people in startupland massively overvalue themselves. I&#x27;m a Tech 8, which means that if I&#x27;m looking for a CEO co-founder, I&#x27;m looking for a Business 8 (or 9; but since they generally have better negotiation skills, that match is almost impossible for now). I&#x27;m not going to take a subordinate role (and 2% equity) to a Business 6. If you&#x27;re not coming to me with the resources in hand (funding and first clients already lined up) and you&#x27;re not on a first-name basis with the top names of Sand Hill Road, you&#x27;re not a Business 8. A Biz 7 comes with resources in hand and can get any article put into credible press; a Biz 8 can make any introduction in the world happen.<p>To tell the truth, though, Business 8 startup founders are exceedingly rare. They&#x27;re usually venture capitalists.
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gaiusover 11 years ago
Having a blog on &quot;svbtle&quot; is a negative signal for being worth reading. The &quot;OMG slavery!!!&quot; guy was from there too.
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