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South Korea is stuck with Internet Explorer for online shopping

154 pointsby nichol4sover 11 years ago

26 comments

ddoolinover 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve lived in Korea for quite a length of time and my wife is Korean...and I concur that it&#x27;s a nightmare. No Korean financial institution will let you log into their interfaces on anything other than IE. Often the homepage would be completely broken in anything other than IE anyway. This is true for most sites, though those were easily avoidable. Banks and the like, not so much.<p>To perform financial transactions online in Korea, you would need a plethora of software (often one from each party you would deal with) that revolved around security certificates that were issued by the banks that would store a hard copy of the certificate locally on your computer. Often it didn&#x27;t work at all, not even getting into the security implications of the system. Bank hacking is so common in Korea, it&#x27;s really disturbing. There is absolutely no accountability where the attempts at security do exist.<p>Also, you need to use your Citizen Number (basically a Social Security Number) to register for ANY service in Korea, even common websites. So everything you do can be traced via that single number. For foreigners, registering for common sites is usually impossible because our alien numbers are stored wherever normal citizen numbers are, so unless the site has a separate process for foreigners, you&#x27;d be out of luck. It&#x27;s quite a mess. I can&#x27;t say enough bad things.<p>On the bright side, start ups like Vingle in Seoul are doing a lot of tip the scales for the younger generation by only supporting modern browser versions (IE8+, not the most modern, but definitely a step up from IE6, which has a huge market share still, too), but it&#x27;s a slow change.
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PakG1over 11 years ago
It is strange that I think of this after reading this, but this seems to be the dystopian future scenario that freaked out the DOJ due to Microsoft bundling the IE browser with Windows. It is strange that this situation actually came about, but due to reasons of law, not due to Microsoft&#x27;s own market clout.
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gkanaiover 11 years ago
I covered this on my blog in 2007: <a href="http://kanai.net/weblog/archive/2007/01/26/00h53m55s" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;kanai.net&#x2F;weblog&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2007&#x2F;01&#x2F;26&#x2F;00h53m55s</a><p>My blog post was heavily covered in Boing Boing, Slashdot, Salon, etc. at the time.
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grownseedover 11 years ago
I lived in South Korea for a while and this &quot;security plugin&quot; you have to install for IE is an absolute nightmare. Some sites even ask you to install a separate application to be able to perform transactions, only through IE of course...<p>Truth be told, I never actually managed to buy anything online when I was there. It&#x27;s like everything was designed to keep me from buying. What didn&#x27;t help was that I was on Visitor status, meaning you don&#x27;t get your national ID, which is required on a vast number of SK sites. Without ID, you just become some kind of virtual hobo.<p>It&#x27;s a shame considering the amazing infrastructure there is over there. Anyone who&#x27;s ever visited SK websites will tell you how poorly put together they are, both technically and visually. I&#x27;ve rarely seen such disparity between the underlying infrastructure and its use anywhere else.
baneover 11 years ago
An example of a premature optimization and what not following standards can do.<p>Some more background <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEED" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;SEED</a> and <a href="http://kanai.net/weblog/archive/2007/01/26/00h53m55s" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;kanai.net&#x2F;weblog&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2007&#x2F;01&#x2F;26&#x2F;00h53m55s</a><p>There was some hope last presidential election cycle that this would become a topic for the new administration to tackle [1], but that candidate (Ahn Cheol-soo) lost the election and it seems to have fallen off the table for now.<p>1 - <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/14/ahn_lab_internet_explorer_seed_replace_korea/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theregister.co.uk&#x2F;2012&#x2F;11&#x2F;14&#x2F;ahn_lab_internet_exp...</a>
kskover 11 years ago
Typical of most MS bashing articles - this article is troll-bait at best and false at worst. Internet Explorer is not mandated by law.<p>What happened was, the US had banned export of 128bit encryption software. The Korean government said screw that and created browser plugins - for BOTH Netscape and IE - to use 128bit encryption for online transactions. Netscape died and IE remained. I guess their implementation is proprietary enough that nobody else has managed to implement it on other browsers.
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viraptorover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m really surprised that in the last 14 years noone wrote a compatibility layer. It&#x27;s definitely possible (see the comment about tablets) and embedding crazy stuff from windows is nothing new in linux world (wine, ndiswrapper).<p>So what&#x27;s the actual barrier to doing that? (also, why doesn&#x27;t FF solve the issue since <a href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=478839" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bugzilla.mozilla.org&#x2F;show_bug.cgi?id=478839</a> was fixed? - it looks like guys from KISA are actually cooperating to implement the needed ciphers)
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onion2kover 11 years ago
This is why governments shouldn&#x27;t be passing laws to &#x27;protect&#x27; citizens online - they&#x27;d manifestly bad at understanding change and worse at designing legal systems that can cope with it.
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kijinover 11 years ago
Some additional details that the article doesn&#x27;t mention:<p>1. Technically, the law doesn&#x27;t require that you use Internet Explorer. The law merely requires that you use a bunch of technologies, ranging from 128-bit encryption to government-issued client certificates to government-mandated antivirus to (craziest of all) an anti-keylogger utility. Conveniently, the spec was written with Windows &amp; IE in mind, so it&#x27;s very difficult to write alternative implementations for other platforms.<p>2. This is not a matter of being stuck with older versions of IE like many corporate intranets in the West. In fact, most banks in Korea work perfectly well in IE11 as long as you don&#x27;t try to use the Modern UI (Metro) version. Because this is not so much about IE as it is about the WIN32 environment.<p>3. The proliferation of phones and tablets has motivated banks and payment gateways to write iOS and Android implementations of the spec. This was the first time anybody tried to implement the spec outside of Windows &amp; IE. But once you have one alternative implementation, it&#x27;s much easier to port it to other platforms like Mac, Linux, and FF&#x2F;Chrome on Windows. This is happening slowly.<p>4. Despite the appearance of these alternative implementations, the spec itself is still very problematic. For example, the antivirus and anti-keylogger requirements cannot be met unless the programs in question have root privileges on your device. It feels insane when you browse to a bank&#x27;s home page in Linux and it tells you to download a bunch of apps and execute them as root. And of course those apps are only designed for specific versions of specific Linux distributions, so they break as soon as a new Ubuntu release comes out. No thanks! Even in Windows, the Firefox &amp; Chrome plugins are not packaged as proper extensions, but as standalone programs that integrate loosely with the browser like Flash and Java, Because you can&#x27;t meet the spec within the confines of a browser&#x27;s sandbox.<p>5. Okay so why not just run Windows in a VM? Actually that&#x27;s exactly what I do. But it&#x27;s not a perfect solution. Some of the Korean &quot;security&quot; apps have begun to detect when the user is in a VM, and refuse to work in a VM. There is no technical reason for this policy, they just don&#x27;t like people getting around the rules. My bank refuses to whitelist my VM as a trusted device. I&#x27;ve encountered at least one government agency that won&#x27;t offer online services to a VM. The last time I bought a bus ticket online, the e-ticket wouldn&#x27;t print because the printer port was virtualized and therefore could be used to produce duplicates or whatever.<p>6. Even mobile apps, which the article mentions, are very pesky about their environment. The app for my bank won&#x27;t run on my phone because it&#x27;s rooted and therefore can&#x27;t be trusted. Fuck that shit. This affects everyone who uses CyanogenMod. (What&#x27;s even more ridiculous is that the same bank <i>requires</i> root on my PC.)<p>7. <i>Therefore, porting the spec to non-IE platforms and&#x2F;or writing compatibility layers is not the answer. The spec needs to be fixed, period. No website should have the right to demand the use of any software other than a standards-compliant web browser. No website should require root, or even want to know anything about the environment (virtualized or not, rooted or not) in which it is being visited, except what the browser exposes to it by default.</i><p>8. Of course this isn&#x27;t going to happen any time soon, because removing even one of the requirements on the current spec will be seen as a decrease of security, and nobody wants to take the blame the next time 10 million people get their account information stolen. Wait a second, every Korean citizen has had his or her personal information stolen multiple times in the last several years anyway. All the banks and merchants have desensitized users to the point that anytime any website ask them to install some app and run it as Administrator, they do. All the security theater of the last 14 years has done is to decrease the security of the entire country. It has also hurt the rest of the Web. Because it&#x27;s so much more convenient to write a Windows Forms app than to write a website that works in both IE6 and IE11, lots of interactive and media-heavy websites in Korea (especially gaming and file-sharing websites) have become mere landing pages where you download the actual app. After all, the banks are doing it, so why shouldn&#x27;t everyone else do the same?<p>9. One move in the right direction is that since this September, every large (over ~$3000) online transaction requires two-factor authentication. They&#x27;ve been handing out one-time password generators like candy lately. The ubiquity of mobile phones also means that you can even choose to use three-factor authentication (login + one-time password + SMS token) for certain types of transactions. Hopefully this will eliminate the justification for the anti-keylogger utility, since the passwords and SMS tokens can&#x27;t be reused anyway.<p>[Edit] 10. Another positive development is that the Korean government has finally begun to pay attention to accessibility on the Internet. At the moment, among Korean web developers, accessibility is an even hotter topic than standards compliance, because lack of accessibility can get you into nasty lawsuits and hefty fines. Everyone&#x27;s busy adding &quot;alt&quot; attributes to &lt;img&gt; tags. But hopefully, in the long term, focusing on accessibility will also bring people to care about standards compliance.
ebbvover 11 years ago
Well that&#x27;s a stupid law. Requiring people to use a specific product. That&#x27;s never a good idea. Now if you don&#x27;t mind I need to go renew my car insurance and sign up for health care.
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talmandover 11 years ago
Boot Camp is a secret weapon? It costs $70? I&#x27;m confused.<p>Could they not get a free VM and then download an image from modern.ie?
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aricover 11 years ago
This is state-controlled economics (corporatism) at its usual finest.
eric5544over 11 years ago
&quot;But the back-and-forth was technologically complicated, and it came with a catch: It required a piece of additional software, or “plugin,” known as ActiveX — which is also made by Microsoft and worked in tandem only with Internet Explorer.&quot;<p>That phrasing made me cringe and shows the lack of technical understanding of the author of this article. ActiveX is a technology, not a piece of software or a plugin in itself.
xrjnover 11 years ago
$70 for bootcamp? For a company as technologically advanced as South Korea, can&#x27;t they just use refit or refind? Heck even a VM would do fine.
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eonilover 11 years ago
Whole the source of problem is Korean majority is conservative. They don&#x27;t want to change anything. And want to force their belief of right. And that belief in financial industry is current Korean online banking system. Korean financial industry practically has no freedom to choose some security solution, so even foreign banks - such as CitiBank - use that stupid system.<p>And the conservativeness of the Korean majority elected conservative major party, and the party - of course - has no will to change it at all. And actually they enforces old rules to keep their existing benefits.<p>So Korea has no hope to change this before replace major party. In last president election, there was a candidate promised fixing this issue, but finally defeated to candidate from conservative party.<p>And they need to wait all the old McCarthyists - who are main supporters of conservative party - disappears.
mje__over 11 years ago
Isn&#x27;t this because the US wouldn&#x27;t export crypto software that supported keys &gt; 40 bits to Korea in the 90s, forcing them to develop their own stronger algorithms?<p>Anyway, it&#x27;s so bad that my (technophobe) wife refuses to shop online anymore because she is forced to use IE (and vastly prefers to use Chrome)
tenderLoinsover 11 years ago
I like to think of South Korea as a nation state, gripped by such fear-of-the-other, that they&#x27;ll agree to any irrational suggestions their military advisors might make.<p>So then, 10 or 20 years ago, when the NSA needed a secret laboratory to experiment in, where they could blunder away at trial and error, perhaps a huge wind tunnel to test the aerodynamics of this bird, well South Korea sounds pretty good. Let&#x27;s see if the pentagon can get them to agree to a few absurd pre-requisites and static global variables, while we bootstrap this absolutely enourmous program we&#x27;re shoe-horning into place.
Segmentationover 11 years ago
An enormous amount of South Koreans play Starcraft and MOBAs (e.g. League of Legends). Those are Windows games.<p>However, as I&#x27;ve learned from doing tech support, I find hardcore gamers are more computer illiterate. They know enough about computers to turn them on and play their game, but because they play for so many hours they don&#x27;t do anything else on the computer.<p>Basically you get a nation of computer illiterate users, who use Windows because they don&#x27;t know any better. Most probably don&#x27;t even know what Firefox or Chrome are.
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derekp7over 11 years ago
Is it easier to buy something out of a catalog over the phone? If that is still an option, then one way around this law is to use a web site to set up an order (fill your shopping cart, shipping details, etc). Then call the vendor to finalize the order. Of course, this would add to the cost of online purchases, since you&#x27;d have to pay for the person taking the call, but still it might be a work around.
crisnobleover 11 years ago
Non-paginated version: <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/due-to-security-law-south-korea-is-stuck-with-internet-explorer-for-online-shopping/2013/11/03/ffd2528a-3eff-11e3-b028-de922d7a3f47_print.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;asia_pacific&#x2F;due-to-secu...</a>
bifrostover 11 years ago
You&#x27;d think someone would sort out a way to setup the certs via some other method. I think this is a great example of why legislators shouldn&#x27;t be allowed to make laws about things they don&#x27;t understand, like the internet.
johngover 11 years ago
Sounds like someone needs to educate Koreans on using VirtualBox and Modern.ie images... both are free.<p><a href="http://www.modern.ie/en-us" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.modern.ie&#x2F;en-us</a>
aruncover 11 years ago
So are most of the Indian IT services companies. A friend of mine is still using windows vista with IE7 cus some moron decides the outdated company policies.
peteretepover 11 years ago
Surely this impacts Apple&#x27;s sales in Korea. Amazed they haven&#x27;t invested more in making a Mac technical solution for this.
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thenerdfilesover 11 years ago
This is exactly what I was saying about [made-for-prison] software being unleashed on the public writ large:<p>&gt; But those with Apple computers — for which IE isn’t available — have it harder. Some go to Internet cafes. Some rely on their office desktops. Some dash into hotel business centers. Some hold on to their old computers and boot them up when it’s time to make purchases. Still others depend on a secret weapon called Boot Camp, a software program that allows a Mac to run Windows.<p>Your bar code is your laptop.
mellingover 11 years ago
Who cares. Developers need to pull legacy browser support sooner. It&#x27;s pretty clear that certain people and organizations will wait until they absolutely have to change before they will make the effort. Once it becomes inconvenient enough they&#x27;ll do whatever needs to get done. The effort can be justified in business terms.<p>IE8, for example, is going to be around for a while. However, if enough developers stop supporting it now, the conversation will begin. Otherwise, it&#x27;s gonna be 2020 and ie8 will still have significant market share.
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