I'm not going to lie, I didn't like this post as much as I wanted to.<p>The author says that Google is making the same mistakes that LiveNinja made over a year ago. And that LiveNinja has learned a lot and iterated since then. At this point, I'm ready to believe that LiveNinja is the more mature product. That if I have a need, I should probably go to LiveNinja. I'm ready to be sold... But then the author does nothing. He don't actually tell me WHY LiveNinja is better. Instead, he mentions Google Answers, Buzz, and Wave.<p>Why not drop the ad hominem, and <i>sell</i> to your potential customers instead?
>I’m pretty underwhelmed.<p>Why?<p>>This is more like a squeeze bunt back to the pitcher and you’re out at first base.<p>How so?<p>>What I’m seeing when I look at Helpouts is some of the exact same mistakes we made over a year ago, while our company was still in private beta.<p>For example?<p>>...you built Helpouts all wrong.<p>Go on...<p>>Will people buy some of these Helpouts? Yes. No doubt. But it’s not going to scale in the way you hoped. Not like this.<p>Like what?
I'm actually curious about what sort of mistakes Google is obviously making here besides being a competitor to LiveNinja. Did I miss something or is this post just vague trash talking?
I'm sorry, but the post strikes me more as a rant-y whine from a company that isn't competition in a field that is alive and well..<p>How is Google's service a copy of your product?<p>Several live support sites have come and gone, way before you even started your private beta, and some are still around ( e.g. <a href="http://www.liveperson.com/experts" rel="nofollow">http://www.liveperson.com/experts</a> being one that comes to mind).<p>There are a multitude sites that offer live instructions that thrive ( e.g. <a href="http://livemocha.com" rel="nofollow">http://livemocha.com</a> )<p>What makes LiveNinja so unique (except a very nice design)?<p>Edit: links clickable
tl;dr: Please buy us.<p>Having Google enter your space must be one of the most crushing things that can happen to a small company. The feeling these guys felt when they saw the announcement must have been mortifying. Even if you have a superior product, like LiveNinja says they have, Google will outmarket you by so many orders of magnitude you just disappear into nothingness.
There have been a number of similar startups and companies, so it's a stretch to assume that Google stumbled upon your company and decided to copy it. (Not to say they don't do exactly that -- but they target big proven markets, like Dropbox and Groupon and Facebook.)<p>It's easy to forget that at any given moment, lots of smart people are independently identifying a market opportunity.<p>The good news is that the revenue for Google will be so low it will likely be shelved when they put more wood behind fewer arrows. I suggest writing your "We're sorry to see Google Helpouts go, here's how to import your profile" post in advance.
This is a terrific post - If liveninja doesn't work out Will should start an PR agency.<p>Note these points he manages to get across in a subtle way:<p>- We're disappointed that Google with all their resources couldn't make a better product. (Our product is superior)<p>- You made the exact same mistakes we made a year ago (we're a year ahead of you, and you don't know what you're doing)<p>- We're glad Google entered the scene and validated the market. (this is now a validated market niche, investors take note)<p>- We really hope for the sake of Googles customers that they'll stick around and not make this an experiment like buzz, wave, etc. (We're in it for the long haul, Google will shut down their service and leave you hanging if they don't see instant success)<p>- You're dealing with customers who need this tool and are willing to pay for it (Investors, did you read this?)<p>- I'll be visiting tomorrow because I won an award and the prize was a trip to Google. I'd be happy to have a conversation and help you out. (Why don't you buy my company instead)<p>Never does he condemn Google for stealing his idea, bullying or entering the space. He comes across as happy for the competition because he knows his product is better. (whether it is is another matter, I don't know)<p>This is a textbook example of how to deal with a large competitor entering your business niche.
I hate to be that guy, but for some reason I'm unable to let this one pass by. It's trivial, and in no way reflects on his point (to the degree that he has one...the article is shockingly light on any concrete information), but for some reason this bugs me.<p>> This is more like a squeeze bunt back to the pitcher and you're out at first base.<p>You're <i>supposed</i> to be out at first base on a squeeze bunt. That's what a squeeze bunt is. You give yourself up so that the runner from third can score.
Compare Evernote with Google Keep. The latter, which came out later, converted me to use the former. You have nothing to worry about. A big company sucks at copying ideas. An innovative big company gives incentives to defensive maneuvers like this, but never sees them through to an offensive maneuver unless there's billions at immediate risk. If anything, Google is doing you a favor by shining the spotlight on a mediocre solution. All you need now is the product to tap into that dissatisfied channel. They just validated the significance of your market for you. Good luck!
Perhaps I'm cynical but when I see this title I read:<p>"I'm creating publicity for my startup by mentioning Google and hoping this gets picked up by HN, reddit, etc"<p>The mantra on HN and elsewhere by now is firmly that "execution matters". Also, not that many things are really "new". They're just a new take on an existing idea or simply better execution. There were a bunch of video sites before Youtube took off.<p>So I mean no disrespect to the author or his startup. In fact, I think he knows he's doing exactly this: simply raising his startup's profile. I applaud his efforts (both in that and his startup).<p>I will say though that you never get far by saying why other companies or their products are bad. Speaking generally I mean, not specific to the author or his post at this point. You really need to sell your own product or service on its positives not on other's negatives.<p>So when I see a post that basically says "X is doing the same thing but doing it worse" the cynic in me just sees another startup that will be on the trash heap of history in another 1-2 years tops.
Great attitude. I've known a start-up or two that either pivoted or dropped their project altogether at the news of Google releasing a similar idea.<p>Google is great at engineering, but the new iteration of Google Maps is proof IMO that they're not a great at products.<p>With that said, I'm sure y'all at Live Ninja will throw the knock out punch.
So over at Fashiolista we felt really scared when google launched boutiques with the crazy 100M acquisition of like.com<p>They announced partnerships with many celebrities, got PR on every major tech and fashion outlet.<p>In the end Fashiolista ended up dominating its space and google boutiques...<p>So stop your attempt at getting bought, get back to work and show these guys :)
When visiting Google Helpouts, I imidiately understood its purpose... unlike going to the LiveNinja website. Watch a video? Aint nobody got time for that.
Well written and thought out post, I hope you get to sit down with the right people at Google tomorrow Will.<p>Best of luck with Live Ninja, as an early beta user of hangouts and someone who had never seen Live Ninja before this AM I have to say i am truly impressed with what you guys have built at Live Ninja
Decided to think about Helpouts from Google's perspective. I don't see it as a stand-alone monetizable business, put into the market to compete with LiveNinja. Rather, it's a strategic move by Google to strengthen its ecosystem by:<p>1. Onboarding more people to G+. G+ is Google's attempt to create a single social identity for each person across all Google products, thus uniting what can seem like a fragmented Google experience. Having Helpouts (using Google Hangouts) is one way to drive new users for G+ through a specific use case.<p>2. Developing real-time results for help in Google Search. Imagine what will happen when a user searches "math tutoring today" - Google can offer real-time suggestions from Helpouts using Universal Search and Knowledge Graph.<p>3. Driving new business accounts on Google Apps & Google Analytics, plus sell more ads. When Google encourages skilled people to create Helpouts, they are basically increasing the number of enterprise customers they can potentially recruit for Apps, Analytics, and oh yeah - search / display ads.<p>And a random idea:<p>4. Using recorded Hangouts and posting them into a new category on Youtube. Could increase the overall quality of instruction. Also Youtube could be a great way to source Helpout teachers.<p>If Google chooses to achieve scale - by integrating with search most likely - it will be difficult for LiveNinja to compete on a broad scale. As previous posts mention, a niche / targeted approach may work better for LN to secure loyal users and deter drop off to Helpouts.
Explain to me why LiveNinja is better - I've thought that a product like LiveNinja (or now Helpouts) was needed for a while, and you've got me convinced Helpouts is shit and LiveNinja is better.... until you didn't actually explain why.
A service that enables domain experts to give video advice to paying users is not an idea you're going to be the only one who's ever thought about. So it's a bit iffy to claim that someone copied your start-up. Unless you're talking about specific methods of defining or solving problems in your execution of the concept, which doesn't seem to me to have been the case here. I could be wrong, naturally.
Man doesn't explain what Google is doing wrong.. I think OP just wants to let Google know that he is a competitor and considers himself ahead of the game.
Unrelated, but:<p>> I really love competition, and as a competitor I only want to compete against the best of the best. It’s like Mike Tyson in his prime saying that he wants to box with you.<p>Wanting to box Mike Tyson in his prime is a death wish. Maybe not the best analogy...<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-478QGV9pc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-478QGV9pc</a>
This sounds like a good rallying cry, but as someone who is seeing both products for the first time, I would say that Google does a much better job of communicating their product. In fact, I would not have not know what SiteNinja did if not viewing the Google product first.
Did the author just write an essay saying "you're doing it wrong" over and over without saying <i>why</i>? I was reading for the <i>why</i> and got nothing.<p>I think that would've been infinitely more valuable as a post.
Given the probably smallish market for helpouts for a giant like Google, I think we should see Helpouts more like a marketing thing for Hangouts than a full-fledged competitor in this space?
I have to be honest, one thing google is doing right is actually having the product on the first page. I would seriously consider changing your front end. It is crazy busy with self promotion when I'm already there to see whats going on. Hopefully I remember to check it out in the future but in the 10 seconds I looked at your page, I had no idea where to go to get started and browse the listings.<p>Google does this much, much better.
Wish more companies cut to the chase and simply advertised themselves as e.g. "exactly like Google Helpouts, except Not Google"<p>The "not Google" tag in itself is enough to drive me to click, where previously I didn't even know what Helpouts was, and had been ignoring the links. "Gee, another <i>free</i> product I'd need a Google Account for, I immediately don't even care what it does"
"What I’m seeing when I look at Helpouts is some of the exact same mistakes we made over a year ago, while our company was still in private beta."<p>The guy should to a short intro on the situation, put this paragraph an then lists all what is wrong with Google's approach and why they are the one got it right.<p>Instead the article feels like a lot of mixed paragraph s with the author feelings or whinings with no point at all.
I found it interesting that the "use cases" in the G. Helpouts video were exactly the same as the ones in the LiveNinja promo video[1] which was posted 1y ago: guitar, yoga, and fashion ~= makeup.<p>I guess there might be some idea-copying going on...<p>[1] <a href="http://vimeo.com/37270865" rel="nofollow">http://vimeo.com/37270865</a>
"...I’m pretty underwhelmed." pretty much summarizes every single Google asset ever. Don't worry, Helpouts (who the F comes up with those names, Google), will be dumped in the dustbin before long as Google starts finding interest in the next thing that it only haphazardly cares about.
@willaaye
Can you tell us why you decided not to have a search bar right in the middle of the page so users can see what is available right away. You push people to signup before they search unless they discover the small search bar in the top right. Does this actually result in more signups?
Disclaimer: I build Wello(<a href="https://www.wello.com" rel="nofollow">https://www.wello.com</a>) and am ex-googler.<p>We are a vertical marketplace for connecting you to fitness professionals. We are extremely focused on this segment and our offering in terms of price and trainer quality, etc speaks for itself.<p>Here are some observations from my point of view.<p>1. I welcome Google entering this space. I am not nearly as worried as others are. The big challenge that this business really has is that we need to explain to people that you can do somethings over video that you used to do in person. Google has infinitely more marketing dollars than we do. If they can convince folks that this is something easy, we would love to ride their coattails (is that one word?) on that one.<p>2. For some verticals, Google will do well (my guess, technical help etc). Building a fitness focused marketplace is not the same as building a music learning marketplace. We can make our user experience far more fitness centric than everyone else. Ultimately our users value that. So do users of other vertical marketplaces for online tutoring, etc. When you are meeting a trainer, we can offer health tracking, health data analysis, fitness suggestions based on your prior workouts with us. This is not impossible for Google but they have to boil the ocean first and then make their bets.<p>3. Working in this space, it has also taught us that while Google will be better at some things (integrating with Hangouts, Android etc), if they are going to move to WebRTC, there are many users who still prefer IE and Safari and are stuck on older versions. If they move to support those browsers, then it is at odds with their WebRTC focus. We can offer an independent solution that uses WebRTC when available and not in other environments to again give a better user experience.<p>4. Overall, we are cautiously optimistic that this is good for this space. It validates our work for the past year and we are hoping the market is big enough for a lot of niche segments.<p>Be Wello,
Amol
I found this post highly insincere and filed with veiled bitterness.<p>Regardless, I see the potential in the market for online expertise and would recommend aligning yourself with some verticals to provide some needed focus.
English is not my first language. I'm not part of the culture that connects the word Ninja to someone specialized on something. When I first read about "LiveNinja" I had to think hard to figure out what this service was about. I don't know how this service could ever be understood/accepted outside the circles where the word "Ninja" makes sense. On the other hand we have a service from a global company that uses "Help" as prefix on its name. IMHO, I see a big difference here.
An awful lot of words to say essentially a) Google has a similar product and a hint of you stole our idea but that's ok, OP likes competition and b) OP has learnt much but won't say what it is (at this point I assume it's because of competitive reasons) and c) he's willing to share some of the insights to the market with Google directly so invalidates my assumption in b).<p>Regardless of how the blog was written -- this is how I got to know LiveNinja. Kudos for that.
Fuck the competition, don't worry about them--your post shows there is no reason to yet.<p>If this is a way to get your name out there and you're looking for Google to acquire you in the future, fine but I guess I don't see the point in this post as it's a waste of time writing about competition instead of building and improving LiveNinja. Sorry to be blunt but all the best with LiveNinja, I do hope it crushes Google's stab at it.
I congratulate the article's author for moving his product in a brave manner. I can also understand the feeling of the author however there are some things he should review. The name he has chosen is limited to this forum and an amount of tech guys, Google could have bought him but not with that name. On the other hand having Hangouts working this idea was only a matter of time before putting the user needs on the table.
Hi Will -
Like the post... was poking around the site looking for a refrigerator repairman but couldn't find one.<p>I did find some broken links in the suggested categories... looks like a little syntax slip - you could probably fix in 30 secs.<p><a href="https://www.liveninja.com/browse/\food-cooking\" rel="nofollow">https://www.liveninja.com/browse/\food-cooking\</a><p>The categories are being appended with forward slashes instead of back slashes.<p>Keep up the good work.
For all of the people wondering why he didn't explain what Google was doing wrong, he'll be effectively giving Google the market research that convinced him that Google's doing it wrong. (assuming something's there)<p>He had to respond to this. To the blind consumer, the two products are the same thing. Except Google made one that sounds like hangouts and the other has the word ninja in it.
Hey Will,<p>Kudos and Best of luck. Sometimes the smaller nimble player are the key for a solution, which a decade back Google was, and now you may have that chance. Get it going, make it big and put a $X Billion price on the door.<p>...and yes don't go for knock out, make them sweat. Cheers!!!
If it's a squeeze bunt and the batter is out at first base, presumably the runner scored. That is exactly the purpose of a suicide squeeze. Safety squeezes are extremely rare, and "a squeeze bunt" nearly always refers to a suicide squeeze.
Love it. Gutsy, and getting your story to be linked with Google, so it will be picked up. That way you'll get more traffic to your startup. And as a side benefit you can get Google to possibly make an investment bid in you.
When I signed up for liveninja using facebook, it gave me the facebook access confirmation fullscreen, so the OK was way in the bottom right. I almost missed it.<p>In case that is helpful.