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The Problem with Higher Education - An Unfortunate Email

42 pointsby Selfcommitover 11 years ago

15 comments

hkmurakamiover 11 years ago
The reason why you get this kind of behavior from advanced degree programs is (you probably guessed it) <i>rankings</i>.<p>When &quot;acceptance rate&quot; is one of the factors in your ability to inch up those of so precious rankings, marketing yourself to applicants in this fashion suddenly makes sense. Sure, you&#x27;d like the best, most qualified applicants to matriculate. But more immediately, you have a need to inflate the number of applicants to your school, keep the number of seats constant, and make your program look &quot;more competitive&quot; to get into.<p>IMO this kind of short cutting may work in the short term, but erodes the quality of the student body in the long run.<p>Whenever you see &quot;has been investing heavily in their marketing efforts&quot; from a graduate program, I take it as a warning sign that something might be cookin&#x27; in the kitchen.
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drakaalover 11 years ago
I have attended more than a dozen Colleges and Universities. I have a degree from none.<p>I had a ground floor corner window office at Microsoft. (those who know, know what that means)<p>I was told by Google if I took a job with them I would have to &quot;finish&quot; my studies with in 2 years of taking the job.<p>I was on the standards committee for h.264, VC1, HD-DVD, and Bluray. Today I build some of the most advanced Natural Language Processing systems on the planet.<p>What is wrong with higher education is the belief that it is necessary to do well. There are definitely fields where I want the person to have earned a Doctorate. (I would like my Brain Surgeon to have at least one if not two) But over all I find that the person with the discipline to find out what they need to know through seeking someone who can teach them, or through reading, or through taking a gig that will train them is far more impressive than attending a school. Especially for IT.
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enraged_camelover 11 years ago
One of the reasons I decided not to pursue a master&#x27;s degree is their ridiculous over-reliance on undergraduate GPA scores.<p>I was kind of a dumbass in college. I didn&#x27;t take anything outside of my major seriously - I merely took them to fulfill the so-called &quot;general education requirements.&quot; As a result, my GPA suffered.<p>More than half a decade later, those mistakes are basically ensuring that I can never get into a top-tier master&#x27;s program, regardless of my GRE&#x2F;GMAT scores or letters of recommendation.<p>Sigh. Oh well.
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greenyodaover 11 years ago
It sounds like universities are adopting the same kind of dysfunctional behavior that lots of companies are using to recruit employees: automated application systems with inscrutable criteria that reject qualified applicants without any human involvement, followed up by spamming previously-rejected applicants (in the case of job-seekers, via LinkedIn).<p>Now, just wait for the inevitable whining: &quot;It&#x27;s sooooo hard to find qualified grad students in the U.S., so we need the government to increase the number of student visas.&quot;<p>If universities or companies are seriously trying to recruit qualified applicants, there should be a human being at the other end, not a mindless piece of software.
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ChuckMcMover 11 years ago
Hah, it would be interesting if Cassey replies. It would be more effective to write them a letter and post it to them. No doubt 99% of the replys to the email are &quot;no such address&quot; or &quot;user email inbox is full&quot; or something equally un-germane to the process of recruiting. As a system administrator you could write to the President of the University and explain to them how Cassey appears to be wasting college resources with an ineffective spamming campaign but mention that if you were a student there, pursuing your Masters degree, you would also be available on a work study basis to help Drexel develop a much more accurate and useful student recruitment tool, this would greatly enhance the value to Drexel of having you be part of their program.
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colechristensenover 11 years ago
There are a series of serious and growing issues with higher education and the pursuit of a career as an academic and this is clearly a symptom. As I see it, there are three separate goals: personal growth of students (education for it&#x27;s own sake), providing a quality workforce, and expanding the reach of human knowledge and achievement. Through a series of well-intentioned but misguided attitudes, the whole system is getting progressively more broken and serving it&#x27;s goals (or my version of them) less and less.<p>It&#x27;s a hard problem to solve, and we see the beginnings of solutions, but we all have a long way to go and the future doesn&#x27;t necessarily look all that promising without some pretty significant changes in our culture.
privongover 11 years ago
It seems as though Drexel is acting somewhat foolishly (at minimum, just putting their foot in their mouth), but it&#x27;s not clear that this particular incident relates to higher education in general.
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Selfcommitover 11 years ago
Update: Not sure if someone actually read my reply, but I just received this from Drexel, unprompted.<p><a href="http://i.imgur.com/JP8c0i6.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;JP8c0i6.png</a>
brohoolioover 11 years ago
I recently attended a lecture by our college of engineering graduate admissions recruitment officer. He basically wants a 3.7 GPA or higher and he says he&#x27;d get it were it not for a couple if departments who insist on bringing in the occasional person with a low GPA. Sounds like he&#x27;s going to strong arm them in the next few years into not accepting those kids. They do all sorts of recruiting tricks to target the smartest kids to come to graduate school.<p>It&#x27;s all about those ranking metrics, never mind all the successful people that for whatever reason either didn&#x27;t graduate or did poorly in undergrad. Doesn&#x27;t matter if you went out and ended up being successful.
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beachstartupover 11 years ago
i graduated with a 2.01 GPA from my undergrad program nearly 10 years ago (a top 20 school, basically the best public STEM school in the nation). since then i&#x27;ve worked extensively for big name-brand companies and have cofounded a multi-million dollar services firm which i now run.<p>after doing some very cursory research into MBA programs, i decided that it probably wasn&#x27;t worth the effort and money required to even apply, given my academic achievement. a non-starter, so to speak.<p>the only answers i could wrangle out of admissions folks and people who had gotten their mba were bogus platitudes and non-responses, i couldn&#x27;t get a god damn straight answer out of ANYONE whether or not it would be a waste of time to pursue admissions with a C average in undergrad, even given my professional track record. not a single person said &quot;yes. it is possible that an elite school will accept you with a C undergrad gpa.&quot; even worse, nobody said that i would be rejected outright. basically, nobody knew.<p>i got the distinct feeling that mba programs cast a wide net on applications and keep the secret sauce of admissions as closely guarded as possible.<p>therefore, i gave up on the process and have pretty much decided that i am done with school for life. it&#x27;s not really feeling like much of a loss, to be honest, especially considering it would take me over 500k of lost earnings and tuition to go to a school anyway. i dunno if that&#x27;s worth it.
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ChristianMarksover 11 years ago
If only this were <i>the</i> singular problem with higher education.<p>I have a problem with the phrase <i>the problem</i>, as if there were a single, uniquely identifiable problem. Example sentence: <i>The problem with &#x27;the problem&#x27; is that there is no canonical, singular, uniquely identifiable problem.</i>
ForHackernewsover 11 years ago
This was on Hacker News a while back, maybe give him a try? <a href="http://jeffhuang.com/rethinking_the_phd_application.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jeffhuang.com&#x2F;rethinking_the_phd_application.html</a>
rjzzleepover 11 years ago
the problem with higher education is that with all it&#x27;s great rhetoric it was made for the greatest common denominator. it&#x27;s not made to surface ones capabilities and talents, it&#x27;s rather designed to network and create as many mediocre worker bees as possible.<p>on an unrelated sidenote, i&#x27;m looking for professions or studies where the biggest gap exists between what is taught and is actually used or needed during actual work or practice. if anyone has suggestions, please comment or email me.
Estragonover 11 years ago
Somehow I got on an email list which low-tier universities use to spam potential students like this. He&#x27;s right, they really are desperate for fresh blood.
graycatover 11 years ago
&gt; At a point in history when self tutoring often provides more than the average Graduate course, it blows my mind how difficult it can be to get into a Masters program.<p>Things to consider:<p>(1) Take the GRE tests for both aptitude and your speciality. Really good scores will be tough to ignore. And if your speciality is in a STEM field, then you get to f&#x27;get about all the English literature, history, etc. and your grades in those nonsense subjects.<p>(2) Emphasize points of success in your career. Why? Because you will look like you are taking your career seriously and might later in your career be able to make significant financial contributions to the university. Yes, Virginia, universities like rich students!<p>(3) As in the quote, do some independent study. Then in your application, describe the significant books and journal papers you have studied. You may be doing enough independent study now just for your career.<p>(4) Get the description of the Ph.D. qualifying exams. Mostly the coursework for a Master&#x27;s and for preparation for the exams are similar. So, just study the darned material on your own, apply to the Ph.D. program, and offer to sit for the qualifying exams before being admitted. Offer tough to turn down.<p>Note, at one time the Web site of the Princeton math department just flatly stated that the graduate courses were introductions to research by experts, no courses were given for preparation for the qualifying exams, and students were expected to prepare for these exams on their own. So, do it, on your own, without going to campus.<p>That you successfully prepared for the qualifying exams on your own is big time impressive and a big point for any graduate program because one of the basic necessary conditions for success in a Ph.D. program is good ability at independent study. So, showing such ability can make a graduate department really happy, i.e., no longer afraid they will have to write your dissertation for you.<p>(5) Find a problem, maybe at work, that needs solving and get a good solution, both in theory and in practice. Write a paper and submit it for publication in a peer-reviewed journal or a conference.<p>If are unsure on just how to do this, then find a friendly Ph.D., researcher, professor to give you the <i>101 Big Secrets They Never Taught You in College on How Get a Paper Published</i> or some such.<p>Pretend to look for a recommendation of a suitable journal and write to a suitable professor in the program you want to enter and send a copy of your paper. So, <i>prime the pump</i> via a backdoor. If he likes your paper, then it can be that all the rest goes quickly. E.g., once I applied to a graduate program at Cornell and got turned down. It happened that there was a prof there I wanted to talk to about a problem I had at work and flew up. We took a campus tour, and back at his office I showed him my problem and my progress on it. Suddenly I got another letter from the department admissions saying I was in. I didn&#x27;t go. Via such things I also got into Brown, Princeton, and Hopkins. I went to Hopkins.<p>(6) Typically a STEM department has a seminar series. These can be painful as a toothache because you may be listening to stuff you don&#x27;t have the prerequisites to understand. But they can also be good because they can, on a good day, give you some great help in picking a research problem.<p>Well, typically such seminars are open to the public, and maybe also the department tea before the seminar. So, crash the party and meet some of the profs and&#x2F;or graduate students. From the students, get some of the &#x27;low down&#x27; -- they can be quite helpful to a fellow suffering human.<p>You need to know that graduate school, really, is not much about learning. Instead, the three most important aspects are research, research, and research, as in &quot;new, correct, and significant&quot; and&#x2F;or &quot;worthy of publication&quot;. For a prof, what&#x27;s important is research good enough to get a good grant, e.g., from the NSF. E.g., that Princeton Web site didn&#x27;t even want to teach basic material and only wanted students to get involved in research; the assumption is that hard part was doing the research, not finding, reading, and understanding it in the library.<p>As a graduate student, do some work that is nice and clearly publishable, especially if you publish it, and can suddenly find that life in the department gets much nicer.<p>Finally, my <i>Secret Guide to Research Success in STEM Fields</i> is, &quot;be wise, mathematize&quot;. Basically get an ugrad math major with emphasis on topics that can be important in the other STEM fields and then make the research basically some new theorems and proofs. It&#x27;s worked for me.<p>For the admissions office, try to f&#x27;get about them! They just can&#x27;t be the brightest bulbs on the tree.