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Governments admit to faking terrorism: a list

447 pointsby marojejianover 11 years ago

44 comments

rtpgover 11 years ago
A lot of people&#x27;s jobs in the military is to come up with plans like these. The point is that we&#x27;re not actually doing them most of the time.<p>The fact that a US senator once proposed a false flag does not make this official US policy. If we had to take everything every member of congress said as scripture, we&#x27;d have bombed every country in the world by now.<p>There are a lot of disturbing stuff in this list, but the false equivalency between putting a weapon down next to an afghan civilian after being (most likely) accidentally killed (despicable, but not always likely they went in with a plan to kill civilians) and actively killing your own people just so you can say it was some militants (an actual campaign involving planning and whatnot) is preposterous<p>Creating a fake terrorist organisation to mess with the heads of the real ones doesn&#x27;t seem like an issue in itself, and there&#x27;s a pretty big line to cross between fake training camps and real bombs.<p>Also, the notion that a country is funding terrorism in another country is not exactly a novel one.<p>It&#x27;s unfortunate because there are a lot of real issues, but some people who cover these issues try so hard to find all these issues with US policy (of which there are many), that they try to equate some offhand remark of a senator with years-long operations involving framing and murdering innocents with express political goals.<p>&gt;As reported by BBC, the New York Times, and Associated Press, Macedonian officials admit that the government murdered 7 innocent immigrants in cold blood and pretended that they were Al Qaeda soldiers attempting to assassinate Macedonian police, in order to join the “war on terror”.<p>This one is beyond bizarre.
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revelationover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s really just the tip of the iceberg. How many &quot;terrorists&quot; has the FBI arrested where the FBI delivered the plan, the motivation, contacts and most importantly, the explosives?<p>They are actively fabricating terrorist plots.
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recuterover 11 years ago
It is actually incredibly easy to see how smart people tasked with solving complicated societal problems arrive at false flag operations as a viable solution:<p>Imagine you have a credible imminent threat to your society posted by a danger to which the society is not familiar enough with to fully grasp and take seriously.<p>Do you wait for the threat to play out and take your chances with the society sufficiently changing its attitude towards it in time? Or do you galvanize things with a false flag operation that will cause less damage than the real threat but induce the much needed urgent action against it? Almost like a vaccine. Innocent people will die either way.<p>It is incredibly paternalistic in a way, and a morally gray area. Ultimately it is a lack of faith in the people the operation is trying to protect, a lot of times it is flat out wrong or backfires in unpredictable and uncontrollable ways - for example Iran.<p>And yet. And yet, not always. And when it works you&#x27;ll never hear about it.<p>Thought exercise: You are a marine biologist who has become convinced that over fishing is about to cause a sudden, sharp, and potentially irreversible collapse in the sea food supply. Millions will starve. But meanwhile tuna cans remain cheap and abundant in supermarkets across the world.<p>This is a long standing serious issue but <i>now</i> it is coming to a head, do you wait for the crisis to unfold and hope international politics find a way to avoid it in time or..?
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smtddrover 11 years ago
From the article:<p>&gt;&gt;<i>&quot;As admitted by the U.S. government, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960′s, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. See the following ABC news report; the official documents; and watch this interview with the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC’s World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.&quot;</i><p>I know I&#x27;ll be 65+ years old; retired in a Nigerian village eating some Obe Ata Dindin. Suddenly someone is going to show me a breaking-news article about the real truth of 9&#x2F;11. Based on this, I see it takes about 55 years before the truth comes out. Anytime you read something about seemingly insane 9&#x2F;11 truthers talk, keep this bit of info in the back of your mind and consider that they just might be right...
wahsdover 11 years ago
Isn&#x27;t the whole Iraq war a false flag act of terrorism? Accepting that the 9&#x2F;11 attack was executed by those purported to have done so, and even if you accept that all the knowledge of the preparation and planning for the act was overlooked and filled with institutional incompetence and failure; using one act as a justification for action of a totally different nature and rationale is just that.<p>Was it really just opportune that 9&#x2F;11 happened to justify the Iraq war? I mean, there is an audio recording of Wolfowitz proclaiming how 9&#x2F;11 should be used and is an opportunity to rationalize an attack on Iraq?
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marojejianover 11 years ago
I generally find this blogger too alarmist, but much of the list here appears accurate, and shocking to me. Faked terrorism seems much more common than I would guess. Of course, the more liberal&#x2F;democratic the country, and the more recent, the more weak&#x2F;stetched the case is.<p>but still, the lesson to me is that this sort of &quot;conspiracy&quot; is not at all implausible, even in a country like Canada....
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mercurialover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s a bit of a mixed bag. The Columbian think wasn&#x27;t a politically motivated false flag operation, for instance, it was murder for financial gain.
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coldcodeover 11 years ago
I think most of us have come to believe that governments themselves are better terrorists than the real ones.
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angersockover 11 years ago
And yet, one might wonder: who is it that benefits most from these stories on .gov and .mil doing these distasteful things?<p>As much as I&#x27;d love to believe that we&#x27;ve all spontaneously awoken to our governments being underhanded, I cannot help but wonder if it&#x27;s as organic as we&#x27;d believe.
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squozzerover 11 years ago
The problem with distinguishing agents provocateur from real terrorists lies in the proof. Enough real terrorists &#x2F; revolutionaries &#x2F; gangsters exist that one cannot assume governments acting as the sole generator. And reasonable people do not - or at least should not - act solely on suspicion.<p>Leakers might provide a solution, but a lot of conspiracies are very small and tightly-bound. And one cannot discount the possibility of the leak - or the leaker, e.g. Snowden - being discredited.<p>I would also add that the decentralized command-and-control model of terrorist organizations (i.e. cells) allows outside organizations to hijack cells for their own ends, at least temporarily. With no higher-ups actually giving orders, who can really determine the source of a particular objective?
jghover 11 years ago
This is something that is really starting to bother me: More and more websites are doing this thing (on tabets such as the nexus 7 I&#x27;m on now) where they load most of the way in a second or two, and then some loading screen pops up and I have to wait 15-20 more seconds for some god-awful &quot;mobile&quot; paginated monstrosity that is slower and harder to read than the desktop site.<p>Can we stop that please? Just...stop.
rdtscover 11 years ago
This is a tried and true tactic. It would take extensive use of brainwashing and belief in fairy tales about an enlightened government, a city on hill exceptional-ism or what-have-you to think these don&#x27;t happen. However, this level of brainwashing is achieved in US quite often. It is a lot worse vis-a-vis the rhetoric of independence, free thinking, individualism. But that in an of itself (this belief that we are no brainwashed) is also a result of brainwashing.<p>The issue is quite subtle and there are a few factors at play. One is the basic need to believe their &quot;team&quot; is a good team. This works with the brainwashing. &quot;Teams&quot;, &quot;us vs them&quot; is ingrained in our tribal brains. We want to think our team is the winning team. We are better, special, not like &quot;those others&quot;.<p>It is really working against the flow when attempting to show our citizens that &quot;yes, our country has done these horrible things to others&quot;. They is an irrational immune response against it, they have been believing their family&#x2F;their team they&#x27;ve rooted for now has a dark secret, its past marred in shameful things. They have been telling others, their kids, and themselves how great our country is, and now look! -- a total reversal, &quot;what, have I been living in a fantasy world all this time?&quot; kind of bewilderment. So instead of exposing and handling the hard truth, it is easy to bury it, stick fingers in the ears and say &quot;la-la-la, I am not hearing you, ...&quot;<p>This also is interesting because it kind of explains what happens in the brains of many who work for CIA, NSA and other such agencies. They are supposedly hired for their exceptional patriotism. Now sometimes it backfires, because they realize what they have to do in their jobs contradicts the high idealized patriotic beliefs of what this country is about. So there is Snowden, he is one of them. What about others?<p>There was an article just yesterday about how &quot;Morale at NSA is low after the leaks&quot;. Hmm, it is low. Why is it low?. Good to explore. Did many realize they have been playing for the bad guys all this time? Or do they just feel angry about one of their team members &quot;betraying&quot; the team and they don&#x27;t see anything wrong at all with what they do. To keep their nice govt job are they forced to believe one thing in their heads (&quot;this fucking contradicts what our Constitution is all about!&quot;), and profess another thing at work publicly. Much like North Koreans perhaps. Cry with happiness when &quot;Dear Leader&quot; drives, but curse his guts in their head? Who knows.<p>Another way to look at it is from a psychopathic, practical aspect. Do people just acknowledge the situation for what it is and say &quot;yes we are bad and we love it&quot;. &quot;We conducted these attacks? Great! Let us do more. If it means a blowing up a few civilians so be it.&quot; I can image many at the top operate on this principle.
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oelmekkiover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m shocked by the amount of comments here saying things like &quot;they didn&#x27;t planned to kill, they just took advantage of it&quot; or &quot;they planned it but didn&#x27;t do it&quot;, so it&#x27;s ok. It&#x27;s not ok, it&#x27;s miscreant attitude that demonstrates poor human skills.<p>I want to be represented by people with high human skills. Call me an idealistic if you want, it&#x27;s ok for me in a world where vice is common place. Any way, we can&#x27;t do anything great if we don&#x27;t expect much of ourselves.
jotmover 11 years ago
Yeah, we&#x27;ve known about these tactics for decades. I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if 50 years from now, 9&#x2F;11 is also revealed to have been a false flag operation.
avakuover 11 years ago
I would like to say that the Russian apartment bombings, although not officially proven to originate from the government, upon thorough investigation appear to have a very significant probability of being an actual brutal false flag. In addition to the available facts and possible motives, one can also consider that all serious journalists investigating this in Russia, and several KGB whistleblowers, have been assassinated.
babyover 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t see the recent &quot;secret weapons&quot; in Iraq thing.
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atlanticover 11 years ago
Considering things in this perspective, is it so far-fetched to at least consider the possibility that 9&#x2F;11 was a false-flag attack?
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akjjover 11 years ago
This list is quite confused and several of the examples are not false flag operations. As Wikipedia&#x27;s definition says, it has to be carried out with the purpose of pinning blame on another group and tarnishing their reputation.<p>&gt; Although the FBI now admits that the 2001 anthrax attacks were carried out by one or more U.S. government scientists, a senior FBI official says that the FBI was actually told to blame the Anthrax attacks on Al Qaeda by White House officials.<p>Is the author suggesting that the US government in fact organized the anthrax letters? That&#x27;s a long stretch from the evidence that the letters were sent by a government employee. It&#x27;s unfortunate that the government would try to blame al Qaeda, but it&#x27;s just opportunistic dishonesty since they didn&#x27;t plan the attack.<p>&gt; Former Department of Justice lawyer John Yoo suggested in 2005 that the US should go on the offensive against al-Qaeda, having “our intelligence agencies create a false terrorist organization.&quot;<p>This seems to be taken from an op-ed, which is a pretty terrible place to plan a false flag operation if you think about it. Yoo seems to be suggesting disrupting al Qaeda through disinformation, but I guess the name leads people to assume that something more evil must be going on.<p>&gt; U.S. intelligence officers are reporting that some of the insurgents in Iraq are using recent-model Beretta 92 pistols, but the pistols seem to have had their serial numbers erased. ... Analysts speculate that agent provocateurs may be using the untraceable weapons even as U.S. authorities use insurgent attacks against civilians as evidence of the illegitimacy of the resistance.<p>Pretty speculative and doesn&#x27;t fall under the category of &quot;government admissions.&quot; In any case, even if true, it&#x27;s questionable whether it&#x27;s qualifies as a false flag operation.<p>&gt; A Colombian army colonel has admitted that his unit murdered 57 civilians, then dressed them in uniforms and claimed they were rebels killed in combat<p>War crime, followed by cover-up. Not false flag.<p>&gt; U.S. soldiers have admitted that if they kill innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, they then “drop” automatic weapons near their body so they can pretend they were militants.<p>Same as previous.<p>&gt; The highly-respected writer for the Telegraph Ambrose Evans-Pritchard says that the head of Saudi intelligence – Prince Bandar – admitted last the Saudi government controls “Chechen” terrorists.<p>I don&#x27;t even understand how this could be confused with a false flag. Just a threat of using a proxy force, and who knows if it&#x27;s true.<p>Then to further confuse things the author defines &quot;false flag terrorism&quot; as &quot;a government attacking its own people, then blaming others in order to justify going to war against the people it blames.&quot; I don&#x27;t know why the author includes &quot;its own people&quot; and that the purpose must be to start a war, because neither of those appears in the Wikipedia definition and each is violated by several of his examples. But it just goes to show the sloppy thinking that went into putting together this list.<p>Look, many of these incidents were despicable and those responsible deserve to be called out, but the list is such a mixed bag of actual violence, planned violence, or speculation of planned violence, sometimes by the military, sometimes by police forces, sometimes by radicals. I don&#x27;t see what the message is supposed to be by listing all of these together.
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kelvin0over 11 years ago
This article is very &#x27;unpatriotic&#x27; ... I don&#x27;t think normal god fearing individuals with so much power would even think to do these horrible things.<p>Time for my &#x27;delusion&#x27; pills ... ;)
hoshover 11 years ago
FEAR: False Evidence Appearing Real.<p>False flags are symptoms of a deeper problem. The root problem is that we want war to be justified, because we want to be the good guys. War is unjustified, period, even when you think you are doing the right thing -- it is this that a lot of people have moral problems with <i>Ender&#x27;s Game</i>.
cafardover 11 years ago
One could add the Marco Polo Bridge incident. Under inadvertent stuff one could add the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
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transfireover 11 years ago
* Bombing of the golden mosque<p>* Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists<p>* Stuxnet<p>* Smuggling rocket launchers into Gaza<p>* Gulf of Tonkin<p>* Assassination of JFK<p>* Oil Embargo on Japan<p>* Selling arms to Iraq<p>* Iran-contra<p>* 9&#x2F;11<p>Tip of the iceberg.
gremlinsincover 11 years ago
Not really surprising, but how do we stop it? Can it be stopped, or is corruption in government, just something we&#x27;re forced to live with forever?
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hopover 11 years ago
That Onswipe plugin is so annoying on iOS.
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hadronzooover 11 years ago
A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran: <a href="http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foreignpolicy.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;13&#x2F;false_flag</a>
joelrunyonover 11 years ago
&gt; People are slowly waking up to this whole con job by governments who want to justify war.<p>More people are talking about the phrase “false flag” than ever before.<p>Here&#x27;s an interesting google trends graph of the phrase over time - <a href="http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=false%20flag" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;trends&#x2F;explore#q=false%20flag</a>
vxNsrover 11 years ago
My only problem is with this one:<p>&gt;Undercover Israeli soldiers admitted in 2005 to throwing stones at other Israeli soldiers so they could blame it on Palestinians, as an excuse to crack down on peaceful protests by the Palestinians<p>2005 was the height of the 2nd intifada, there were nearly daily suicide bombings in Israel there was no need for excuses and undercover agents. Also the source basically says that the soldiers were originally supposed to work undercover and locate the organizers to be arrested (quality arrests, say what you want about that...) but as things appeared to get out of control the undercover agents (who were first timers) took matters into their own hands.
eswover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m surprised they missed this: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_%28testimony%29" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nayirah_%28testimony%29</a>
koushiknover 11 years ago
I thought the basic idea was documented clearly in 1984
knownover 11 years ago
<a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reichstag_fire</a>
lazyjonesover 11 years ago
That&#x27;s an impressive list, but far from complete. Here&#x27;s a famous false flag operation in post-Nazi Germany for example: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celle_Hole" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Celle_Hole</a>
phaerover 11 years ago
I personally think that the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_1980_Bologna_bombing" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;August_1980_Bologna_bombing</a> should be part of that list.
tiagobrawover 11 years ago
In the recent Brazilian protests, infiltrated undercover policemen made several violent actions as an excuse to lower the credibility of peaceful protests.
jstrateover 11 years ago
I wonder what this list would look like in comparison with a list of legitimate acts of terrorism. Hint: it would look pretty insignificant.
microcolonelover 11 years ago
Blowing up consulates... sounds really familiar...
JoeAltmaierover 11 years ago
Not to diminish the issue, but many items were not &#x27;governments&#x27; but rather members of govt covering up errors.
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knownover 11 years ago
A terrorist is a freedom fighter who isn&#x27;t on your side.
tslathrowover 11 years ago
Just FYI ritholtz is a complete fake... tried to build a brand out of working as a strategist at a bombed out bank.<p>Not saying that his articles are invalid, just that he is a serial marketer with little in terms of relevant credentials.
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evolve2kover 11 years ago
So frustrating this site is unreadable on the iPhone.
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dustingetzover 11 years ago
looks like a nash equilibrium to me!
robobroover 11 years ago
loving the fake Hitler quote
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rthomas6over 11 years ago
Is this on-topic for HN?
rooshdiover 11 years ago
Old news.
amerika_blogover 11 years ago
Government is the enemy.<p>That means no wealth redistribution.<p>Can the internet balance these two?