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President Obama calls on every American to learn code

356 pointsby bbayerover 11 years ago

91 comments

grellasover 11 years ago
Speaking as a non-coder, but as one who did minimal things with programming-like higher-level stuff ranging from the old DOS batch files to VBA and some dabbling with SQL, I am curious whether real engineers believe the idea of broad literacy in coding truly would be valuable and, if so, how exactly.<p>I am not speaking as a skeptic, just as one who does not readily see the point and wants to know.<p>Of course, we are in a digital age and there is incredible value in knowing how to code for the person who really masters this skill. And, among those who do master it, you will of course have various gradations in skill level ranging from profound to excellent to good to competent to serviceable, and these in turn will give the bearer of such skills a range of opportunities commensurate with the acquired skill level (and, when I say skill, I don&#x27;t mean mere technique but also inspiration, insight, imagination, and whatever else it takes not only to pound something out but to do it in ways that stand out).<p>That said, however, if I were to look, say, at 100 random friends and acquaintances, I would question what good it would do for them to learn a few basics about the syntax of some programming language, to learn a few things about programming objects, and to learn a few things about control structures if the sum total of all those few things is simply to understanding minimal things about how coding works without being able to apply that knowledge effectively to anything in their real-world lives. In my own case in having hacked through some minimal interpretative stuff, I at least had some professional uses for this sort of thing (e.g., using VBA to systematize a few MS Word functions needed in our office). But, even at this level, most of the people around me - being non-programmers - would run in horror from the idea of even getting into that level of trying to interact with a computing environment. For the most part, they were content to know as little as possible about any of the inner workings of a computer and were totally uninterested in delving any deeper. And these are the people who are out there by the millions who have always been drawn to the simplest ways of interacting with their computers (e.g., mouse and not keyboard). In my experience, unless people naturally have a mathematical or engineering &quot;bent,&quot; they simply would rather not deal with understanding how something like a computer works beneath the surface but want only to grasp its benefits at the highest level with the least effort possible.<p>If most people are indeed like that (and I believe they are), how would it benefit them in a practical sense, say, for future educational curricula to mandate taking a prescribed course in learning to code. Even if this sort of thing were required, wouldn&#x27;t this be just like a prescribed foreign language course in middle school that one has but a fleeting acquaintance with, only to have little or nothing stick beyond getting past the requirement for the purposes of passing a class. What residual value would stick from such fleeing interactions with the rudiments of coding?<p>It seems to me that, if one is to derive true value from learning to code, one needs to devote a significant level of dedicated hard work toward that effort and, if one fails to get beyond a minimal threshold, the only value gained is that of a very generalized form of knowledge that has little practical use in the real world. And I would suspect that most people really do not want to devote such an effort to this task. A good many do, of course, and, as noted, this does have <i>huge</i> value in our digital age for those that do. But why expect it of most people?<p>There is nothing wrong, of course, with our political leaders encouraging young people to learn to code and this may inspire some to do so. But coding is not really like, say, writing, where gaining a minimal proficiency leaves one in a much better position than not knowing how to do it at all. It seems that, if most people can&#x27;t get beyond some minimum threshold to make the endeavor worthwhile, learning to code would not help the great majority of people who are not interested in making the sort of dedicated effort that only a relatively minority will in fact make to justify the effort in practical terms.<p>That is my layman&#x27;s view. Do those who really know this stuff agree or is this just some disconnected elitist view of people that doesn&#x27;t fit with modern understanding? I would genuinely like to know because, to me, it does not seem like a close question. Am I just being prejudiced here?
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jmdukeover 11 years ago
A lot of people are getting attached to the &quot;every American&quot; aspect of things, and I think its important to note the distance between &quot;knowing how to code&quot; and &quot;becoming a programmer.&quot; Amateur programming (for lack of a better term) like basic Python for data analysis or HTML&#x2F;CSS to work on Wordpress sites (Hell, one of my friends who&#x27;s a Social Media Manager learned Python to create some QoL scripts for her day-to-day routine.) is growing increasingly popular amongst recent grads.<p><i>&quot;Whether you&#x27;re a young man or a young woman -- whether you live in a city or a rural area -- computers are going to be a big part of future. And, if you&#x27;re willing to work hard, that future is yours to shape.&quot;</i><p>It&#x27;s hard to argue with the central message there, but we must be careful not to conflate that with the necessity of getting a CS degree. Every American should probably be able to change a tire. That doesn&#x27;t mean every American should be a car mechanic.
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JonFish85over 11 years ago
While I agree that it&#x27;s a great mental exercise to learn how to code (and to learn the mindset that goes along with it), isn&#x27;t it much more important for every American to learn how to budget? To learn how to save money? To me, those are things that are <i>far</i> more important to the country as a whole than understanding even basic scripting.<p>As a quick example, the meaning of &quot;afford&quot; has changed in the last 2 generations or so. To my grandparents, &quot;affording&quot; a car meant being able to spend the money to buy the car outright. To many of my peers, &quot;affording&quot; a new car means being able to make the minimum payment on the car, or even just the lease payment.<p>Many of my peers (meaning my specific circle of friends) don&#x27;t even budget, nevermind put aside money for the future. Hell, even friends in the finance industry don&#x27;t contribute to their 401k because they&#x27;ll &quot;do it later&quot;. To me, this is a problem that is very serious for our country as a whole, moreso than people learning to understand some basic code.<p>Don&#x27;t get me wrong, I think it would be great for everyone to be able to understand how computers work at a deeper level than &quot;magic&quot;. It&#x27;s just that I think no one really bothers to teach kids how to save money, to invest, to budget their lifestyle, etc. Just an opinion, though.
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avenger123over 11 years ago
This &quot;learn to code&quot; meme is getting tiresome.<p>Why not focus on the more critical skills in life that are more applicable to most people. Here&#x27;s a big one:<p>1. Learn to communicate. Improve your writing and speaking skills.
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gfodorover 11 years ago
Obama says a few nice things about Computer Science and encourages people to learn more about the world, and HN still manages to find every possible negative angle to trash it. Impressive!
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Stekoover 11 years ago
Kevin Drum (spoilers: knows how to code) had the best take on this:<p><a href="http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/12/no-everyone-does-not-need-learn-program-computer" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.motherjones.com&#x2F;kevin-drum&#x2F;2013&#x2F;12&#x2F;no-everyone-do...</a><p><i>But wait. The link leads me to a fairly routine presidential video in honor of Computer Science Education Week, in which President Obama encourages kids to take computer science classes. &quot;It&#x27;s important for our country&#x27;s future,&quot; he says. But I imagine he&#x27;s cut dozen of videos for every other conceivable skill that could be taught in our nation&#x27;s schools. &quot;Nursing is important for our country&#x27;s future.&quot; &quot;Agriculture is important for our country&#x27;s future.&quot; Etc.<p>So did this really lead to a conversation about whether everyone should know how to write code? How tiresome.1 I can probably list on one hand the number of significant skills that everyone should know. The rest are optional. Some of us know how to fix cars and some just hire mechanics to do it for us. Some of us know the law and some just hire lawyers to help us out. Some of us know how to drive trucks and some choose other careers.<p>In any case, I don&#x27;t think computer programming would even make my top 20 of broadly useful skills.2 It&#x27;s a great thing to learn if you plan a STEM career or if you just feel like learning it. But useful? For the vast, vast majority of us it&#x27;s of no use whatsoever. Reading and writing are useful in nearly all careers, and are useful personally even if your job doesn&#x27;t require them. But coding? Unless it&#x27;s part of your job, the odds are vanishingly small that it will ever be of much use to you. Nor is it something that&#x27;s useful in its own right because it promotes clear thinking. Nor is it a steppingstone to other, more broadly useful skills.<p>Coding is a specific skill needed for certain specific jobs. That&#x27;s it. There&#x27;s no need to put it on a higher pedestal.<p>1Tiresome because this comes up so often. Why do so many people insist that whatever skill they happen to know is one that everyone should know? There are lots of skills in the world. All of us know only a tiny fraction of them, and that&#x27;s the way it should be.<p>2As a time-wasting skill, however, computer programming is hard to beat. I can no longer count the number of hours I&#x27;ve spent coding (or scripting) little utilities that did me no real good at all. But it was fun!</i>
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apiover 11 years ago
While I think more people should learn code, I think the <i>president</i> getting up and telling <i>everyone</i> to do <i>anything</i> that isn&#x27;t applicable to... well... <i>every-freaking-one</i>... is stupid.<p>Washington is clueless in two ways. (1) It normally doesn&#x27;t get new things and lags behind. (2) When it does get things, it proceeds to fail at execution or not really get them and do ham-fisted things like this. So that means that Washington is always clueless about everything.<p>Sometimes I think the only thing that keeps us from being invaded or otherwise run over by the rest of the world is that nearly all other governments are at least as incompetent as ours.
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Aloisiusover 11 years ago
When I was growing up in Silicon Valley, everyone learned to code using Logo in (iirc) third grade. Everyone also learned to type. It was a required part of the curriculum.<p>Teaching us to code didn&#x27;t mean we didn&#x27;t learn to communicate. We still were taught math. At no point did the small period in programming and typing done once a week somehow deprive us of critical life skills.<p>It did however have a dramatic effect on myself and a good amount of my class. By the time I was in 6th grade, I knew three people running their own BBSes out of their houses (this was about 1989).<p>Not everyone who went through Bullis Elementary went into programming, but thinking procedurally (though technically Logo is a functional language), is a valuable skill to be learned regardless. In my opinion, being able to break a large task down into simple steps is a critical life skill.
pvnickover 11 years ago
I frequently disagree with the president, but he really hit the nail on the head with this one. I&#x27;ve been saying for a while now, if we were to replace high school and college foreign language requirements with a computer programming language class, you would propel America way ahead of everyone else (more-so than now) in terms of industry and innovation, and do wonders for the economy, all within a decade.<p>Think about it. Teachers, scientists, psychologists, poly sci majors, doctors, all with basic computer programming abilities. With the ability to build efficiency into their work. That would be so immensely powerful, the investment would be untold dividends. Way more than memorizing spanish vocab for a grade and then forgetting it.
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wes-expover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s easy to point to the feel-good topic of education and cry foul when anyone is against it.<p>But here is the reality.<p>America already overproduces scientists and engineers. The whole notion of talent shortages is generally hot air from special interests (in this case, tech companies) who want a cheaper supply of labor and cannot bear the idea that skilled engineers actually cost a lot.<p>A lot of effort is put into trying to turn ordinary folk into high-caliber professionals, with things like &quot;everyone should go to college&quot; or in this case &quot;everyone should learn to code&quot;. It&#x27;s not surprising educators are happy about this as it provides a steady customer base (students). Politicians are happy to support it too, after all what could be bad about more education?<p>The problem is that Joe laborer simply isn&#x27;t a good fit for STEM fields and no amount of education will change that. He wastes his time and effort trying to become something he&#x27;s not. In that time he could have been doing something productive and meaningful instead.<p>I&#x27;ve heard good things about the German model of apprenticeship, which accepts the reality that not everyone is cut out for rocket science. I&#x27;d like to see something more like that in America and less bullshit like &quot;coding for everyone&quot;. People are different... let&#x27;s encourage them to do whatever they are actually suited for.
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kunaiover 11 years ago
Call me a cynic, but I&#x27;m really indifferent to this entire &quot;everyone should learn to code&quot; nonsense. There are so many mistruths that Code.org is spreading that it&#x27;s shameful. Let&#x27;s get down to the biggest one: that with a &quot;little bit of math and science&quot; you can build the latest video game or write an app.<p>Buzzer #1. It doesn&#x27;t take just &quot;a little bit&quot; of math. It takes a TON of math. Reading CLRS took me a month to master, and that was already with a background in elementary calculus using the infinitesimal approach. I&#x27;m reading Knuth&#x27;s seminal &quot;Art of,&quot; and I can immediately say that it would be absolute hell for anyone without an advanced mathematics background.<p>That brings us to mistruth #2: that somehow, learning to &quot;code&quot; will help younger people build tomorrow. That&#x27;s utter bull. Learning to code will only lead to worse code: uglier, crappier, and less elegant and efficient code. Github will become a junk pile. Instead of coding, we need to teach students the programming part of computer science. Get a copy of Algorithms into every CS course and get rid of all of the silicon in the classroom. Trust me, people will learn much more meaningful things about problem-solving that way. Isn&#x27;t that what writing code really sets out to do? You know, SOLVE PROBLEMS? Just code is NOT going to help that at ALL.<p>Then there&#x27;s problem number 3, and probably the largest one: it assumes that programming is something we need EVERYONE to learn. EVERYONE. Yes, that is Code.org&#x27;s goal. EVERYONE SHOULD CODE.<p>You know what, fuck it and let&#x27;s teach EVERYONE TO BE A MECHANIC. Right? Why the hell not? It&#x27;s like programming. Only that nobody in their right minds would tell people to make mechanical engineering a part of the curriculum. But people insist on doing the same for CS, as if it&#x27;s any different.<p>I could go on about this for days. But forget it, Atwood&#x27;s explained it far better than I ever could.<p>––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––<p>originally posted in the original discussion located here: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6873136" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6873136</a>
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rhizomeover 11 years ago
The message is clear: top political donors want cheaper labor.
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bichiliadover 11 years ago
&quot;When you guys are good, you should totally take a crack at healthcare.gov. That&#x27;d be awesome.&quot;
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jliechti1over 11 years ago
Judging from the responses so far, it seems the thread is going to evolve into a similar fashion to these previous threads discussing the same topic (not to say it isn&#x27;t worth discussing again - but it has come up quite often recently).<p>Most on HN seem to support the idea that not everyone should become a computer programmer (as a profession), but being exposed to the ideas in used in CS are very helpful for learning how to think about certain types of problems.<p>Personally, from a practical standpoint, I think a lot of people could benefit by learning basic scripting to automate computing tasks - I&#x27;ve seen way too many people doing extremely tedious tasks by hand, when a simple script could have saved them hours.<p>---Similar discussions---<p>Everybody does not need to learn to code: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6237007" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6237007</a> (74 comments)<p>Why everyone should not learn to code: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5302157" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5302157</a> (62 comments)<p>Please learn to code: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3975992" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3975992</a> (147 comments)<p>Please don&#x27;t learn to code: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3975744" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3975744</a> (268 comments)
LionRoarover 11 years ago
I went to the code.org site, looked around and tried the objective-C version. I was (positively) surprised that it did work because I am not in the USA at the moment, meaning it&#x27;s not blocked for non-USA access.<p>The simulator didn&#x27;t work unfortunately but they did warn about this on the site when I started. After I had done the tutorial I landed on the Summer Academy page where you can do a 8-9 week course in programming. Very nice!<p>Then I discovered that this was certainly not for free: $5000 it will cost you. I must admit I was a little shocked. That is not a price every one can pay for this learning to code adventure. That was a part Obama did not mention. It feels like a standard marketing trap, luring in people to do your course, buy your software, etc. Only difference is the frontman of the show ;)<p>It&#x27;s proved again: there is no such thing as a free lunch. Now walk on please, nothing to see here.
vezzy-fnordover 11 years ago
Personally I find the contemporary &quot;learn to code movement&quot; to be asinine for several reasons:<p>1) It supports affirmative action and seeks to set sex quotas. (<a href="http://slashdot.org/story/13/11/24/187255/codeorg-more-money-for-cs-instructors-who-teach-more-girls" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;slashdot.org&#x2F;story&#x2F;13&#x2F;11&#x2F;24&#x2F;187255&#x2F;codeorg-more-money...</a>)<p>2) It offers a very sugar-coated and frankly nauseating view of &quot;coding&quot;. It adulates this mysterious and powerful essence dubbed only as &quot;code&quot; and is highly biased towards the imperative paradigm. Notice how they rarely use the word &quot;programming&quot;, but rather it&#x27;s always &quot;code&quot;. This signifies that they value parroting instructions more over actual understanding.<p>3) The testimonials by all sorts of celebrities are simply ridiculous and laughable. So many actors, musicians, sports players, politicians and business moguls, but barely any actual computer scientists.<p>4) The way they present their entire campaign, and considering who backs it, leads me to believe that their motive is not to foster computer science education, so much as to teach people just enough skills to be a 9-to-5 code monkey that can write instructions in Java or some $EnterpriseLanguage. Cheap, disposable labor.<p>5) Absolutely no focus on software freedom and ethics, of course.<p>6) Another possible outcome is that by making computer science (rather merely coding in this case) a mandatory subject, they&#x27;ll end up alienating many kids from it. This depends on the aptitude of the educators, but it&#x27;s safe to assume it won&#x27;t be too good.<p>7) This is arguable, but merely learning to code basic programs doesn&#x27;t really offer too much insight into the complex process that is software development. The educational value in writing Ruby (used here as an example), while not void, is not that great by itself. Programming languages and natural languages have this thing in common: they&#x27;re different. Ruby isn&#x27;t Haskell.
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robomartinover 11 years ago
I&#x27;d rather have every American learn how to vote. Far more damage is being done to this country by ignorant voters. Far more benefit could be derived by having an intelligent, well informed voting population. The best way to protect your future and that of your children is to elect representatives that will truly do what&#x27;s best. The economic implosion of 2008 had nothing to do with not knowing how to code, write, cook or weld. It had everything to do with horrendously misplaced public policy and legislation. Learning how to critically analize issues without the influence of emotion, religion or political indoctrination to then intelligently cast votes is what we need people trained on.<p>Then again, no politician would want this reality.
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matthewmcgover 11 years ago
Steve Jobs in one of the Bob Cringley interviews:<p>&quot;I think everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer--should learn a computer language--because it teaches you how to think. It&#x27;s like going to law school. I don&#x27;t think anybody should be a lawyer, but I do think going to law school would actually be useful because it teaches you how to think in a certain way, in the same way that computer programming teaches you, in a certain way, how to think. I view computer science as a liberal art. It should be something that everybody takes.&quot;
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intellegacyover 11 years ago
I learned to code. Listened to all the advice of hackers who said it was the most important thing ever, and they&#x27;d never work with you on startups unless you coded as well.<p>Well I learned. I worked as a software dev for 1 year as well. And you know what I&#x27;ve learned? I have no passion for coding and it makes no sense to force myself to do something I&#x27;m not interested in doing.<p>If anyone is interested in working with me on a startup let me know. I&#x27;m a founder who knows how to code but doesn&#x27;t like to.
kbudinoskiover 11 years ago
Can Obama call every doctor or scientist or pharmacist to find cancer cure? Technology has gone too far, medicine and pharmacy are not moving forward. I really appreciate Obama&#x27;s speech.. but why there aren&#x27;t any initiatives in other fields...
natural219over 11 years ago
In the back of my mind, I secretly resent this code.org initiative. It is clearly a good effort that needs to happen, but man, I really enjoy my cozy position as a web developer in 2013 making an insane amount of money doing relatively little work.
thearn4over 11 years ago
Wow. Looks like Youtube comments haven&#x27;t improved much after all.<p>Seriously, it seems like half of the comments seen on Youtube (or at the bottom of any article on a news site) read as if they could have come right from a post on StormFront.
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dadagaaaover 11 years ago
Nice. But I would prefer if he first stopped torturing people and putting his own citizens on kill lists.
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siliconc0wover 11 years ago
The most important aspect is more to <i>think</i> like an engineer (software&#x2F;system&#x2F;data whatever). This lets you at least recognize common information problems:<p>Why does this document go to each person serially when it could go to them in parallel).<p>Why do we store all our important data in a word doc on a windows share where it&#x27;s difficult to collaborate on it.<p>Why are the other business group repeating 50% of what my business group already does.<p>Why are we keeping so many versions&#x2F;copies of this data - any changes to one copy is exponentially expensive as we have to update the other copies.<p>Why is it so difficult to keep track of projects&#x2F;issues&#x2F;tasks&#x2F;action items&#x2F;etc?<p>Why am I manually running this report instead of getting it automatically emailed to my team ever week.<p>Why is it difficult to communicate and collaborate to colleagues in different parts of the company.<p>etc.<p>So much modern &quot;work&quot; are really just repetitive information problems that are so common that they&#x27;re easily solvable by existing tools. Likely free ones. You just have to be able to recognize them and apply the correct solution.
jmspringover 11 years ago
How about rather than asking everyone learn to code, we encourage everyone (skilled or not) to maybe pick up a trade or other skill with marketable options.<p>Not everyone has the skill set to code, just like some don&#x27;t have the dexterity to metal work. Maybe we should be encouraging continual education and learning something new.<p>There is way more to civilization than &quot;coding&quot;.
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mikeleeorgover 11 years ago
As a parent, here is how I interpret this:<p>Obama isn&#x27;t saying my child MUST learn how to program. He is just highly encouraging it. And as a parent looking toward the future, I will highly encourage it as well.<p>However, that&#x27;s just one useful skill. I believe a lot of skills are very useful. Knowing how to cook, how to change a tire, how to balance a personal budget, etc, are all extremely useful. They aren&#x27;t mandatory; it&#x27;s possible to get through life without knowing them, but life will be that much easier with them.<p>So I&#x27;ll be exposing my child to computer programming, as well as a litany of other things. My aim isn&#x27;t to turn her into a computer scientist, it&#x27;s to give her another valuable skill as she figures out what she wants to do with her life. If it&#x27;s to become a programmer, awesome. If it&#x27;s to become a doctor, or dancer, or whatever, equally awesome. But at least she&#x27;ll have exposure (but not necessarily mastery) of a range of useful skills.
Tayloriousover 11 years ago
I for one welcome anything that exposes people to programming. I don&#x27;t think it will necessarily transform the US economy or anything, but I think it will be genuinely good for people to have the exposure. K-12 and college students are taught all kind of things that may not click with them or be relevant in their daily life when they get out of school (plenty of people never use math or writing skills in their actual job&#x2F;life). What I&#x27;m getting at is even though many people won&#x27;t &quot;get&quot; programming or will simply have no desire to pursue it, exposing them to it wont kill them. There are also people who never thought of programming but try it and it does click with them.<p>At my university the intro CS course counts as a language. Since many degrees require a language course, lots of non CS students take it so they don&#x27;t have to take French etc. A surprising number of strong CS students in my senior class started out in another major, took the intro CS class for their language,and then ended up switching majors! One person was going for nursing before he switched to CS and is now doing graduate level research as a CS undergrad and will be going to get a phd in CS and math. You&#x27;d think the guy has been programming since he was in diapers.<p>Unfortunately CS is one of those subjects that a lot of people are never exposed to and will never know if they love it or have a knack for it. It seems like most of the CS majors I have encountered are people who are either computer&#x2F;math nerds or people were big into gaming and got into programming for that (most of them end up giving up on game programming for well known reasons). I think your average person sees CS as something only math&#x2F;computer nerds can do and as something that is really hard and math intensive. If they actually had a gentle introduction they may love it and may even be good at it. Lets not kid ourselves, most programming isn&#x27;t something only super geniuses can do.
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edtechdevover 11 years ago
Here are actual activities people can do online to get exposed to coding: <a href="http://csedweek.org/learn" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;csedweek.org&#x2F;learn</a><p>including an activity for people with no programming experience: <a href="http://learn.code.org/hoc/1" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;learn.code.org&#x2F;hoc&#x2F;1</a>
LandoCalrissianover 11 years ago
He looks so very tired in that video.
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johngaltover 11 years ago
In other fields we recognize that there is a bifurcation between the knowledge required by practitioners of that field and the base level of understanding from non-practitioners. A &#x27;good driver&#x27; isn&#x27;t expected to know about ignition timing or the stoichiometric ratios of various fuels. For first aid we ask people to learn CPR, not to do &#x27;1 hour of surgery&#x27;. We expect people to know countries and capitals but not GIS maps. I feel like we haven&#x27;t drawn the line between user vs creator as clearly in technology.<p>It is accurate to say that more computing knowledge is needed in the general populace. The power of computers&#x2F;technology is limited by the human operators in most scenarios. But how do we focus on building better operators? Where is our line drawn?
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quaffapintover 11 years ago
There is not a shortage of programmers.<p>There is a shortage of companies wanting to pay a programmer over 30 a living wage.
larryboltover 11 years ago
I do think it would be a good thing if more people, preferably in management positions or office-positions would get the chance to learn to code, or at least an introduction to it.<p>It would allow them to appreciate the hard work that get&#x27;s done on the background, make them think twice before defining deadlines and most importantly realise some of the work they do on a daily basis could be automated! In result to that they might at least consider getting in touch with a programmer and trying to find a way to make theirs own job more efficient.<p>But that everyone should go get a degree in CS or everybody should be able to program is to me, the same thing as saying everybody should be able to cook 3 star restaurant dishes.
patmccover 11 years ago
So much work could be saved if most people learned a tiny bit of scripting, or really even what code is capable of doing. My girlfriend was telling me how one of the people in her office spent a few days renaming a huge number of files, so they&#x27;d be consistently named. I cringed when I heard that - it was repetitive, followed a pattern, and could have been done in minutes with a python or perl or bash script written in an hour or two by someone with a basic knowledge of code. That&#x27;s the kind of coding everyone should know - the same way everyone should be able to add columns of numbers without using their fingers.
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saosebastiaoover 11 years ago
&quot;Learn Programming...but don&#x27;t learn Cryptography pretty please...&quot;
briandearover 11 years ago
I would be happy if just the Obamacare website developers would learn to code.
ommunistover 11 years ago
We&#x27;ve seen that before when in 90-ies everybody tried to learn some Visual Basic and later some Java. Maybe I am wrong, but programming require quite a systematic effort in knowledge acquisition, lots of practice and a good mentor. I also think community is not a substitute for mentorship, well it is a superset of it one may say, nevertheless.<p>When a politician asks everyne to learn how to code, I assume it is already too late for everyone to do it. There are more smart kids in India with IQ more than 100 than there are kids in the US in total.
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patjaover 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t get the controversy. I don&#x27;t see this as being about making everyone into a professional programmer, no more than having every student take music class will make them a professional musician. I believe it is more about the ancillary benefits in opening up new ways of problem solving, and having some rudimentary awareness of the inner workings of a world that one might otherwise never have the chance to explore.<p>Some students will catch the bug and tear off on their own journey of independent learning and discovery and create great things. But for most it will just be a new dimension of a full and well-rounded primary education. The problem is that the current generation of educators and schools are largely wholly unequipped to do this, so we have to step up and help out.<p>I ran an after school &quot;Tech Club&quot; for a couple of years at my kids K-8 school. This year the administration asked me to bring it into the classroom and I am teaching 100% of the students in grades 6 - 8 basic programming with Scratch. It is just one 45 minute class per week, with each grade getting the class for one trimester (12 - 13 weeks). You can&#x27;t do a whole lot in this time, but you can definitely do something, a whole lot more than the school was doing with technology before.
heezoover 11 years ago
As a black American, I wish that I were suprised at some of the comments in the video.
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cehlenover 11 years ago
I think this is an amusing idea; however the truth is most people are not meant to be programmers. For those of you in the industry think back to your first couple of programming classes and the people who could not grasp the idea of a FOR LOOP. There was a small group of people who could do it and larger group that just couldn’t. It’s not personal, I was never meant to play basketball it is what it is.
sciguy77over 11 years ago
I have to say, coding is definitely not for everyone. A rather specific kind of person (such as myself) is drawn to program computers. While I enjoy it most people I know would not. Certainly having the option to take Intro and AP CS courses (both of these are available at most public high schools) is great, but &quot;calling on all Americans,&quot; to code seems a little excessive.
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analog31over 11 years ago
In my view, the impact of the President&#x27;s message will not be on those of us who are already teaching our kids programming, but on the kids who live on the other side of the digital divide, and have nobody around them -- parents and even teachers -- who are fully aware of what programming consists of. Many parents think that programming is dangerous.<p>I agree with the folks who have suggested that something like a semester of C randomly inserted into the existing curriculum will be a waste. Instead, the &quot;every American should learn code&quot; message should stimulate debate about what &quot;code&quot; would actually consist of if applied intelligently to the K-12 curriculum.<p>How about music class? So much of contemporary music is programmed. Create music in Scratch.<p>Replace some obsolete math exercises with explorations using spreadsheets or computer algebra software.<p>Let kids use Scratch to write their own data acquisition programs for science labs, via S4A.
bhewesover 11 years ago
I call on every American to learn English and possible a second language first. Then maybe we will have more ideas to code.
hgaover 11 years ago
Hmmm, I wonder what this says about the iOS ecosystem, where programming on your device is strictly <i>verboten</i> Even former Apple Fellow Alan Kay, chosen by Steve Jobs way back when, couldn&#x27;t get a suitable for children version of Smalltalk approved. The Gambit-C Scheme crew got their&#x27;s approved, and then banned.
Eyes2designover 11 years ago
This is why when the government wants a website done, those Shove ready jobs are just waiting for us all.<p>I find this an insult, sure american programmers are far and between but this is not going to help. I Program but I have work for hours using everything I can find online. I have gained a DevOps job without a Degree in CS.
bonemachineover 11 years ago
Woah Cowboy How ken they lernz 2 kode when their aints enuf $$$ to pay teachers 2 lern themz 2 read n rite????
russellover 11 years ago
If we define programming as the stuff that we on HN do for a living with C, Java, JavaScript, and the like, then teaching every American how to code is a futile goal. Something on the order of half of all CS majors fail the introductory CS course. There is a really eyeopening paper by Saeed Dehnadi and Richard Bornat[1] that has a test that can be given BEFORE the course that demonstrates fairly well who will pass and who will fail. There are 5 fundamental concepts that it tests for<p>- assignment<p>- statement sequence<p>- iteration<p>- recursion<p>- concurrency although that is not needed for basic literacy<p>Read it. It&#x27;s an eye opener.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eis.mdx.ac.uk&#x2F;research&#x2F;PhDArea&#x2F;saeed&#x2F;paper1.pdf</a> [Jeff Atwood&#x27;s link in Coding Horror 7&#x2F;14&#x2F;06 is broken]<p>Edited: formatting
naungaover 11 years ago
Here&#x27;s my two cents:<p>We should not be encouraging people to learn to program so much as we should be encouraging people to learn how to construct an algorithm.<p>That&#x27;s the first thing you need to learn. Kind of like learning how to properly construct a sentence. You need to understand how to express a problem in a step-wise fashion.<p>There&#x27;s a lot of talk in the technology industry about diversity. Adding more women, etc, but on a whole we need career diversity. Coders, writers, artists, actors, mathematicians, welders, plumbers, cooks, chemists, managers, politicians, and so on. Society takes more than just coders. So let&#x27;s just encourage kids to get involved in finding a way to contribute that they might enjoy or at least find interesting.
gwu78over 11 years ago
&quot;Don&#x27;t just play on your phone. Program it.&quot;<p>Easier said than done. Not because it&#x27;s difficult to learn to code. But because the owner of the phone cannot have uid 0 without &quot;jailbreaking&quot;. Nor can she write an iPhone app without getting &quot;permission&quot; from Apple.<p>The closed nature of today&#x27;s &quot;phones&quot; (which are really crippled handheld computers running UNIX) is the biggest impediment to learning to code and, for those who already know how, to getting their own code to run.<p>Give me a phone that lets me use my own bootloader, my own kernel and my own utilities.<p>In turn, I&#x27;ll add value to what the phones provide out of the box and help the American economy.
seanhandleyover 11 years ago
The main problem I foresee with this is that the American school system is based on a religious school template whereby the students become very good at unquestioningly following instructions... and the whole point of coding is to describe to machines how to do exactly that so we can think about more interesting things.<p>I&#x27;m keen to see details of how the US government expects the programme to work. Given their track-record, particularly with the Obamacare site debacle, my hopes are not high.<p>Throwing in a compulsory coding course to the curriculum isn&#x27;t the answer. Until a decent plan emerges, it&#x27;s just phony rhetoric.
gaplusover 11 years ago
Learning anything new is all well and good, but the thing that&#x27;s actually valuable to society and &quot;america&#x27;s future&quot; isn&#x27;t really more coders, it&#x27;s people who are really fantastic at what they do; whatever it may be. I&#x27;d rather someone dedicate their life to becoming the best preserve-maker in the world than fixing bugs in groupon. The preserve-maker may not reach billions of people with his&#x2F;her work, but based on my own observations, I&#x27;ve found that the relative quality of one&#x27;s achievements in a field has more leverage than the scale.
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zwegnerover 11 years ago
Ugh, we have enough awful, unmaintainable code to deal with as it is. We really need less code now, not more.<p>I&#x27;d prefer it if he would call on Americans to learn to think first, or at least to meditate or something.
Uchikomaover 11 years ago
Giving some workshops I did with non IT (marketing, middle management, ...) here at the company, I think a lot can be gained by some 3 hour workshops with e.g. Scratch&#x2F;Blockly.<p>Understanding the breaking down of problems into commands, loops, conditionals using variables, data structures, functions, about abstracting solutions into more general solutions, about refactoring, legacy code etc. helps a lot, even if one is not &quot;a programmer&quot; afterwards.<p>I can only recommend to everyone doing this at your company.
bdcravensover 11 years ago
Should be pointed out that Newt Gingrich did a similar spot:<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9elnB2wMEP0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=9elnB2wMEP0</a>
marincountyover 11 years ago
I think it should be taught in school, but it shouldn&#x27;t be forced on students; sorry, but some of your programming books are 600 pages of absolute boredom. I&#x27;ve wondered for years why computer programming books are so terribly written. It&#x27;s not a crime to include diagrams, and highlight the really important concepts. I would like to see a Hacakathon for writers of programming books. The shortest book that got across the material would Win!
swayvilover 11 years ago
While we&#x27;re at it we can have our brains extracted and placed in jars. Then we can write web pages, surf and play videogames forever. Solipsistic Nation!
ConceptJunkieover 11 years ago
&quot;President Obama calls on every American to learn code&quot;<p>We tried that already. It was called Visual Basic. It&#x27;s arguable how much value was created.
arxpoeticaover 11 years ago
So the obligatory joke would be, he&#x27;s asking you to learn to code so you can fix his healthcare website. (duh, dum, dum)
MichaelMoser123over 11 years ago
i think he is saying the right things! I think there is a problem that many kids like to play games, but that they are not quite interested to look at what is going on behind the scenes (does that sentence make me a grumpy old fart?)<p>Part of the problem is that modern systems and also modern programming language are very powerful, have lots of features, but therefore are hard to learn. One of my pet projects is a programming language for learning how to program <a href="http://mosermichael.github.io/cstuff/all/pooh-lan/2012/12/11/pooh-intro.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mosermichael.github.io&#x2F;cstuff&#x2F;all&#x2F;pooh-lan&#x2F;2012&#x2F;12&#x2F;11...</a> ; Actually I had the same problem, I am adding and adding features to the language, now that makes its less suitable for the original task. I guess finding the right balance is not an easy task.<p>Interesting, does Obama know how to code?
krrishdover 11 years ago
I wrote an article on this subject (<a href="http://krrishd.github.io/blog/post/to-code-or-not-to-code" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;krrishd.github.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;post&#x2F;to-code-or-not-to-code</a>), but I think it isn&#x27;t necessary to learn all of computer science, but only relevant scripting and design skills.
dmanover 11 years ago
I wish algorithms were emphasized rather than code. Programming languages and frameworks are too much in flux right now. Education curriculum dont evolve very quickly so they would be baking in programming as it exists currently and recreate scenarios like Pascal being taught long after it was relevant in the mainstream.
peterarmstrongover 11 years ago
For kids (not just American kids) between 9 and 12 I&#x27;m working on a book that hopefully can help with that:<p><a href="https://leanpub.com/programmingforkids" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;leanpub.com&#x2F;programmingforkids</a><p>If anyone here wants a review copy, either reply here or I&#x27;m @peterarmstrong on Twitter...
pvdmover 11 years ago
No. Shut down NSA, then we&#x27;ll talk.
ender89over 11 years ago
Excuse me mister president, but I <i>was</i> born a computer scientist. I have the pictures to prove it.
simlevesqueover 11 years ago
Do you really need to know some science to code ? From my perspective it is not required.
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prezjordanover 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve created a collection on Medium if anyone&#x27;s interested in sharing their personal stories on learn how to code :)<p><a href="https://medium.com/how-i-learned-to-code" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;how-i-learned-to-code</a>
vincieover 11 years ago
Lets start with Cryptography 101
mmaunderover 11 years ago
Talk about a passionless plea. He should be more passionate and the message should be education in general i.e. inclusive of math, literacy, etc.<p>Anyone notice how tired he looks? His eyes are swollen and red. Rough job.
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NAFV_Pover 11 years ago
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idoescompootersover 11 years ago
That&#x27;s one of the very few messages Obama has made that I agree with.
pedrograndeover 11 years ago
I recently spoke at Ignite Sydney and spoke about teaching the world to code :)<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYx5eEqVBE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4EYx5eEqVBE</a>
agumonkeyover 11 years ago
Just focus on recursive functions all along primary and secondary school, with a more regular syntax (see G. Sussman on mathematics), and you&#x27;ll get free programmers.
foxhopover 11 years ago
I think this message is not targeted at all Americans, I think this message is calling on the younger generations to get back into the hacker spirit.
pjbrunetover 11 years ago
Why can&#x27;t Whitehouse.gov host its own videos using HTML5? That would be more fair to Google&#x27;s competition.
TomGullenover 11 years ago
&quot;Don&#x27;t just buy a new video game. Make one!&quot;<p>This is awesome news for our startup! Should bring in more traffic :)
andrewcookeover 11 years ago
can obama code?
everettForthover 11 years ago
Does President Obama know how to code?
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dsegoover 11 years ago
Everyone should learn how to solder before learning how to code. Because experience. Hurr durr.
mnml_over 11 years ago
I&#x27;m not sure the world will be a better place when 313m Americans will be PHP EXPERTS
clonearmyover 11 years ago
Well, then, don&#x27;t just pass a healthcare law, make a website for it :)
fleitzover 11 years ago
This could be America&#x27;s great leap forward into the 21st century.
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gum_ina_packageover 11 years ago
Maybe if everyone knew how to code, we could fix healthcare.gov.
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bayesianhorseover 11 years ago
No code left behind...
tlongrenover 11 years ago
This should end well.
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codeulikeover 11 years ago
Is this so they can help fix his website?
EGregover 11 years ago
I think this video was aimed at kids.
kevandoover 11 years ago
Am I crazy or does he look terrible. His eyes are all red like he was just crying.
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pearjuiceover 11 years ago
&gt;Starring Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, will.i.am, Chris Bosh, Jack Dorsey, Tony Hsieh, Drew Houston, Gabe Newell, Ruchi Sanghvi, Elena Silenok, Vanessa Hurst, and Hadi Partovi. Directed by Lesley Chilcott, executive producers Hadi and Ali Partovi.<p>&gt;Code.org owes special thanks to all the cast and the film crew, and also Microsoft, Google&#x2F;YouTube, Facebook, Amazon, and Twitter for helping us spread the word<p>What the fuck is this shit? They really pumped billions in marketing!? Is America really that desperate to destroy the only real market it has left? You guys might applaud this but the only thing which this will lead to is unqualified people thinking they know how to program.<p>The job market will get saturated with mediocre programmers and those who really know their stuff will be too expensive to hire or get lost in the noise. We will see an increase of shit code in production. People think they can have a shot at the field which was dominated by us, the outcasts, for years.<p>This worries me, brothers, this worries me. If you think this is anything good, look at what happened with finances. It completely fell under the massive appeal of the mainstream crowd who thought they could become a manger and earn a quick buck. Programming is a serious art, skill and dedication you have to live up to.<p>It shouldn&#x27;t be - and isn&#x27;t - for everyone.
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UbuntuJonover 11 years ago
I freakin&#x27; love Obama.
xnameover 11 years ago
If he really meant it, if he really cares about education of young Americans, he should try to fight with the sh*t teacher unions. Oh no, that&#x27;s politics, don&#x27;t go there. So just let politicians say nice things. Don&#x27;t let them talk about their dirty politics! Yes, just say nice things! No politics!<p>Nice things like what? When so many US students cannot even do basic math, when third graders are still struggling with addition and subtraction, encourage all of them to learn code. Yes. encouraging is nice! all (meaning equality and justice) is nice! Always!<p>Fight teacher union is dirty politics (how about take donation from teacher union? shut up!).<p>Lets just talk about nice things, bro! Forget dirty politics!
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thenerdfilesover 11 years ago
He just divided America... How will all the Americans respond who thought <i>guns</i> were the answer around and after WWII?<p>He doesn&#x27;t <i>say</i> &quot;every American&quot; — what the hell ? He specifically says &quot;young Americans like you&quot;.<p>And that <i>CERTAINLY</i> does <i>NOT</i> warrant the question &quot;should everyone know how to code&quot;?<p>If the youth learns to code, the next generation will benefit from this, likely not needing to touch code at all. There&#x27;s no such thing as &quot;every American&quot;. That is totally, utterly, absolutely, invariably <i>not the point</i>. He&#x27;s talking about the <i>youth</i> — he&#x27;s calling a <i>DRAFT</i>.
amerika_blogover 11 years ago
This sounds like politics to me more than anything else.<p>Having everyone learn to code is like having everyone be a paralegal.<p>Most will be bad at it. Neither is particularly difficult, but specialization is a matter of personality more than anything else.