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Google Has Officially Penalized Rap Genius For Link Schemes

502 pointsby tomlemonover 11 years ago

72 comments

selmnooover 11 years ago
Tried all of these just now:<p><pre><code> Justin Bieber All Bad Lyrics Justin Bieber Confident Lyric Justin Bieber Heartbreaker Lyrics Justin Bieber Memphis Lyrics Justin Bieber One Life Lyrics Justin Bieber All That Matters Lyrics Justin Bieber Hold Tight Lyrics Justin Bieber Pyd Lyrics Justin Bieber Change Me Lyrics Justin Bieber Recovery Lyrics Justin Bieber Bad Day Lyrics Justin Bieber Roller Coaster Lyrics Justin Bieber Lyrics </code></pre> All of these just yesterday were in fact ranked in the upper 5 (very often #1 actually). Rapgenius results are now not even in top <i>10</i>.<p>Most surprisingly, even<p><pre><code> Justin Bieber Heartbreaker rap genius </code></pre> will not show up on Google results. Wow, that was a swift and harsh response. The only surefire way to get to a RG site is by doing &quot;*bieber site:rapgenius.com&quot;.<p>They were using a wide array of questionable SERP optimizing techniques (<a href="http://www.rocketmill.co.uk/hideous-seo-strategy-rap-genius" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rocketmill.co.uk&#x2F;hideous-seo-strategy-rap-genius</a> among others). One described here is very interesting: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6958883" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6958883</a>. Apparently that&#x27;s an old one, but it&#x27;s first I&#x27;m hearing of it. From all of this, to their rape jokes and everything else in-between, you can&#x27;t say they didn&#x27;t have something like this coming.
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OmarIsmailover 11 years ago
Google giveth, and Google taketh away.<p>This looks like a -50 penalty. This is both good and bad for Rap Genius.<p>Good in that it will be temporary: specifically 30 days. This is better than a fundamental algorithm change like Panda or Penguin because there&#x27;s no coming back from those.<p>The bad is that -50 penalties effectively destroy 90+ percent of your traffic. It&#x27;s a very harsh lesson to be taught. You also don&#x27;t want to have it happen again because the 2nd time is 60 days, and the 3rd time is permanent.<p>I don&#x27;t think RapGenius will be doing something like this again.<p>From RG&#x27;s perspective it&#x27;s also frustrating because they&#x27;ll see competitors do scammy things and get away with it. But that&#x27;s the dual edged sword of such public personas. With RG getting called out so publicly Google had to do something about it. It&#x27;s also good for Google that this penalty is getting a lot of publicity since it&#x27;s proving an example to everyone else.
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themgtover 11 years ago
My favorite part of this is in the original blog post exposing the scheme, mahbodmoghadam, RapGenius co-founder&#x2F;dude-bro in chief, immediately commented and said &quot;Did you post it??? how about this: attach the HTML to THIS article and I&#x27;ll tweet this out for you - that would be META!&quot;<p>Like scoring an own goal, doing a victory dance, and then sprinting back out to score another. Just amazing. I wish I could find a violin tiny enough to appropriately express my sympathy for these clowns.<p><a href="http://jmarbach.com/rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jmarbach.com&#x2F;rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed</a>
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MitziMotoover 11 years ago
I agree that Rap Genius should have been penalized here, but so should literally every other lyrics site on the net. I&#x27;ve done SEO in hyper competitive spaces in the past and honestly, the system is broken.<p>Google and Cutts love to preach this &quot;Create value and quality content and you&#x27;ll rank high&quot; bullocks but it doesn&#x27;t work like that. When you have a high number of well funded competitors who are all playing dirty, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to compete with them with white hat tactics. You either play hardball yourself and risk a ban or you play nice and get creamed in the SERPs.<p>It&#x27;s really a rock | hard place situation in some niches.<p>Oh, and I just saw the founders made this statement:<p>&quot;We are working with Google right now to resolve this. They&#x27;ve been really great, helping us identify changes we need to make, even on Christmas. We’re working on it as fast as we can, and expect to be back on Google very soon.&quot;<p>WHAT? What makes these guys so special that they actually get <i>help</i> from Google. I think that pisses me off more than anything. There are a ton of webmasters out there trying to do the right thing SEO wise who get banned or penalized but could never, ever, get personal help from Google. We don&#x27;t even get the courtesy of knowing <i>why</i> we&#x27;ve been banned most of the time. (Although to be fair this has gotten much better in GWT).
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deanclatworthyover 11 years ago
Let&#x27;s not feel sorry for these guys just because they were part of YC. They were taking part in black-hat practices, which were <i>clearly</i> in breach of Google&#x27;s ToS. I expect this penalty to expire eventually, but let this be a lesson to anyone else thinking about doing the same.
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OoTheNigerianover 11 years ago
Wow.<p>This is the worst Christmas present possible. Well, Google had no choice and the apology was not a stellar one (not that it could have mattered).<p>If I recall correctly, Google once penalized Google Chrome for doing shady SEO [1]. Although it was not as brutal as this which sends them to the equivalent of Siberia.<p>My Questions.<p>1. I normally search &quot;&lt;song name&gt; rapgenius&quot;. Now, it is no longer on the first few pages. Is that not against Google&#x27;s goal of giving the searcher what (s)he wants?<p>2. Probably the only way for RapGenius to counter this would be to go heavy on AdWords. Is that not a bit conflicted on Google&#x27;s side?<p>Hopefully this punishment will not be permanent. I would hope they have learned to tone things down sometimes.<p>This may be a lesson in disguise as they would be forced to think of how to survive without SEO. If they can survive now, they will be doubly badass when this penalty is lifted.<p>--<p>Edited to include source<p>[1] <a href="http://searchengineland.com/google-chrome-page-will-have-pagerank-reduced-due-to-sponsored-posts-106551" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;searchengineland.com&#x2F;google-chrome-page-will-have-pag...</a>
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jereover 11 years ago
Excellent. They deserved some coal in their stockings.<p>&gt;If you go to Google and search for [rap genius], rapgenius.com will not be found on the first page<p>That&#x27;s pretty crazy. Whenever I put up an obscure site, I notice ranking on the domain happens almost immediately with no effort.<p>[edit] Holy shit, I didn&#x27;t realize quite how awful this is. Very often, I search for &quot;&lt;song name&gt; rapgenius&quot; because I really enjoy the annotations; that&#x27;s not even on the first page of results. Making it worse, the first page (even when searching for a song) contains stories about them making rape jokes and spamming. <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=today+was+a+good+day+rapgenius" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=today+was+a+good+day+rapgeni...</a>
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captainmuonover 11 years ago
I wonder how many &quot;legitimate&quot; links a site like RapGenius gets. I&#x27;ve never seen anybody link to them, except maybe in social networks. Similar for the stackexchange sites. Sometimes people link to good questions from blogs, but a large portion of links are probably from other stackexchange sites, twitter, and Jeff Atwood&#x27;s blog (which is a marvel of SEO and affilate marketing in itself).<p>For many of these high quality content silos (for lack of a better word), the PageRank paradigm seems pretty broken. People don&#x27;t feel compelled to link to well-known sites precisely because they are well-ranked. And when they do, it is in form of viral posts in social networks, which is not really a great input to determine site quality.<p>I wouldn&#x27;t be surprized if Google&#x27;s real secret algorithm nowadays consists of millions of special cases maintained by thousands of poorly paid interns.
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ddoolinover 11 years ago
The sad part is that RG was the most high quality lyrics site I&#x27;ve seen. Their revenue is going to take a huge dive, much more than their link scheming was hurting Google (or probably anyone else for that matter).
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lopatinover 11 years ago
I can&#x27;t imagine that this is permanent. Rap Genius is actually one of the most high quality lyrics sites out there, not another spam farm. So removing them for good actually reduces the quality of Google&#x27;s search results.<p>I do suspect that because of the attention this once case received, and since Matt Cutts was personally looking into the company&#x27;s SEO tactics (talk about bad luck), they issued a public, but temporary, slap. That would serve as an eye opener to Rap Genius about how dangerously they&#x27;re playing the SEO game and a warning to everyone else tuning in.
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nswanbergover 11 years ago
We are all much better off now that azlyrics.com is back to its rightful place at the top of the lyric search results.<p>Rap Genius alleges that their competitors are using the same tactics. Will those sites also get the same scrutiny? Perhaps now would be a good time for a new lyric site run by some nice bland people to go on the offensive and rise to the top.
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bluthruover 11 years ago
I really hate how one search engine can make or break a site.<p>We live in the AOL dark ages and most don&#x27;t even realize it.
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bushidoover 11 years ago
According to alexa their top 10 traffic sources are:<p>google.com - 35.7%; youtube.com - 4.4%; google.co.uk - 4.0%; facebook.com - 3.9%; google.de - 3.5%; google.ca - 3.1%; google.co.in - 2.6%; google.fr - 2.5%; google.com.tr - 1.5%; google.es - 1.1%;<p>Except for facebook all it top sources are Google owned(58.4%). This will truly be disasterous for their revenues.<p>Considering they rank 59th for &quot;rap genius&quot; and 51st for &quot;rapgenius&quot; on Google.<p>There are tons of lessons to be learned here. Don&#x27;t depend on a single source for traffic and most of all don&#x27;t excessively try gaming the system, the system usually catches up.
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dangrossmanover 11 years ago
This just makes Google less useful. RG had the best lyrics and annotations for lots of songs. Now Google sends me to barely-readable sites that only exist to show as many ads as possible per page, even if I include &quot;rap genius&quot; in the search.
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largehotcoffeeover 11 years ago
Honestly Rap Genius isn&#x27;t that appealing of a site and the design is pretty terrible. It&#x27;s incredibly difficult to read anything on the page (azlyrics is actually better at this).<p>I really hope someone new comes along and makes a better site with the same premise (annotating lyrics).
itsprofitbaronover 11 years ago
Whilst this may be surprising to some people on HN, this happens all of the time to sites who build links in an unnatural way.<p>For instance, this has happened in the past to well known brands such as J.C Penney through NYTimes expose[1], Interflora[2] more recently and a lots of others.<p>An apology which RapGenius offered [3] doesn&#x27;t fix this either.<p>Is it fair? Yes and No.<p>The only reason it isn&#x27;t fair is that the site disappears from Google for the BRAND term e.g. [rap genius]. My personal belief is that, devaluing the site for the BRAND term e.g. [rap genius] actually devalues Google&#x27;s quality. On the other side of the coin, if someone searches for [X rap genius] whilst they are under penalty its fair that they do not rank for that either. However, there are obvious reasons as to why the search quality team have decided to do this.<p><i>How RapGenius can fix it &#x2F; How you can too if your site gets a penalty:</i><p>First of all, RapGenius if they are doing any link building now they should pause it immediately until they’re out of penalty.<p>Secondly, in their apology [3] said:<p><pre><code> &quot;With limited tools (Open Site Explorer), we found some suspicious backlinks to some of our competitors&quot; </code></pre> They don&#x27;t actually <i>need</i> to use any other tool to get out of penalty beyond Google Webmaster Tools although, ideally they should clean up all the links beyond the ones Google has found (trust me, Google doesn’t find them all within WMTs). Once you get out of a Google manual penalty and get hit by one again the search quality team takes a much closer look – you don’t want that!<p>Anyway, they should download all the links in WMTs, OSE, Majestic etc (although it looks like they only have OSE[3] so they should just download them from WMTs and OSE) and then remove the duplicates.<p>Once they’ve done this, they should flag every single link which, they believe is causing the penalty.<p>After identifying all the links which are causing the penalty, they should create a Gmail to outreach to all of the sites to remove the links. They should outreach to all these sites and documents all the sites they’ve contacted, status – still live&#x2F;nofollow&#x2F;removed&#x2F;requested payment&#x2F;no response etc.<p>Having got some links removed&#x2F;nofollowed etc, they should then disavow all the other sites that have requested payment or not given them response to the removal. Personally, the disavow(s) that are done by myself are usually done at the domain level although, there are reasons to do this at the URL level as well (Rap Genius needs to make the decision which one to disavow).<p>After submitting the disavow they, should submit a reconsideration request which outlines, the work they have done – from the spreadsheet – and also offer Google’s Search Quality Team the login to the Gmail to show they’ve tried to get the links removed and that some people have asked for payment etc.<p>The Google Search Quality team will review the site then, they’ll either flag more links to be removed or they’ll get out of penalty – after which Rap Genius will start appearing for the BRAND term again and other results once the Google Algorithms trust the site again.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/business/13search.html?_r=2&amp;pagewanted=all&amp;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;02&#x2F;13&#x2F;business&#x2F;13search.html?_r=...</a><p>[2] <a href="http://searchengineland.com/google-says-no-comment-on-why-interflora-was-penalized-149308" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;searchengineland.com&#x2F;google-says-no-comment-on-why-in...</a><p>[3] <a href="http://news.rapgenius.com/Rap-genius-founders-open-letter-to-google-about-rap-genius-seo-lyrics" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.rapgenius.com&#x2F;Rap-genius-founders-open-letter-to...</a>
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citizensover 11 years ago
Current rankings:<p>#42 (was #1) - justin bieber memphis lyrics<p>#43 (was #1) - justin bieber all bad lyrics<p>#44 (was #2) - justin bieber hold tight lyrics<p>#45 (was #1) - justin bieber one life lyrics<p>#46 (was #4) - justin bieber bad day lyrics<p>#48 (was #7) - justin bieber lyrics<p>#54 (was #3) - justin bieber change me lyrics<p>#59 (was #2) - justin bieber pyd lyrics<p>#60 (was #1) - justin bieber confident lyrics<p>#63 (was #1) - justin bieber heartbreaker lyrics<p>#64 (was #5) - justin bieber roller coaster lyrics<p>#68 (was #2) - justin bieber all that matters lyrics<p>#68 (was #3) - justin bieber recovery lyrics<p>#50 - rap genius<p>source: serpscan.com
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akshatover 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand how Rap Genius&#x27; hack was any worse than what Mixpanel does with its free plan.<p><a href="https://mixpanel.com/free/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mixpanel.com&#x2F;free&#x2F;</a><p>Here, they are bribing customers to link to their site? Would this not be illegal too?
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Nursieover 11 years ago
Google&#x27;s revenue depends on providing the best results it can to searchers, within limits of result pollution they do themselves (clearly demarked advertising at present). If they allow cynical SEO then the results get worse for everyone and people will look for alternatives.<p>I&#x27;m glad they have a proactive slap-down policy. Let&#x27;s not go back to the late 90s and the likes of altavista, when you might have got one hit in ten pages of spam, SEO link farms.
zoltar92over 11 years ago
This is absolutely rediculous, google is upholding it&#x27;s rules but forgetting the POINT of the rules. The whole point is to make the most relevant results come up on google searches. The fact that rapgenius needs to &quot;hack their way&quot; to higher link relevancy seems like a internal google problem and penalizing them makes googles results LESS relevant. Tl;dr google&#x27;s cutting off their nose in spite of their face.
skndrover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s a pyrrhic victory. Now, the best lyrics site can&#x27;t be found and Google itself is less useful for it.<p>At least <a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=it+was+a+good+day+rapgenius" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;duckduckgo.com&#x2F;?q=it+was+a+good+day+rapgenius</a> seems to work fine.
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seoguyover 11 years ago
Certainly a harsh blow and a lesson learned, but not the lesson you think. The lesson is to not allow a third party &quot;black box&quot; to be the central traffic source for the monetization model of your business. Rapgenius understood this well and does have an excellent community on boarding strategy, but was still heavily reliant on google as a main pillar of its customer acquisition model.<p>I&#x27;ve lost one Alexa top 2000 site to a google penalty, and several smaller sites, saw this coming miles away.<p>I know exactly what they are going through, never forget the day when my JV partner called me at 4AM and told me the apocalypse scenario has happened. Even worst than the financial blow of losing a $30k a day advertising property, was the brutal realization of googling your brands name and seeing it not show up. Going in to analytics real time and seeing a sub 100 number for the first time in 6 months was quite an eery feeling as well.<p>Google did this to set an example, and they will be reinstated worst case in 6 months.
rubiquityover 11 years ago
I think this is a great lesson in the disparity between two things:<p>1. Breaking rules<p>2. Not being liked and breaking rules
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glass_of_waterover 11 years ago
I think this could be a deathblow to Rap Genius.<p>I performed the following searches in an incognito tab and could not find rapgenius in the first two pages of results (I did not look beyond the first two pages):<p>&quot;rap god eminem lyrics&quot;<p>&quot;machine gun funk rap lyrics&quot;<p>&quot;lose yourself eminem lyrics&quot;
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arrrgover 11 years ago
Right in the middle of my yearly Christmas music shopping spree! I’m already not finding the lyrics I want to find.<p>Since what they do have to offer is about a million times better than any other lyrics site I’m pretty sure they will weather this. I mean, they have to. Their service is pretty excellent, I’m not even sure why there way any need to fuck around with Google.
Xorlevover 11 years ago
Just goes to show, invest in some real marketing, make something really valuable to someone rather than relying on &#x27;growth hacks&#x27; that tend to explode in your face.
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girvoover 11 years ago
We always talk about not building a business on someone else&#x27;s API... Funnily enough, you could almost say that applies here. Gone from any SERPS, entirely. Crazy. I dislike that Google has this much power sometimes :(
chazover 11 years ago
Wow, that&#x27;s a very stiff penalty if they&#x27;re not even turning up for their own brand name. It will likely cost them millions. It&#x27;s a clear warning to all sites out there to avoid similar tactics.
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techaddict009over 11 years ago
Well Google does takes manual actions against link schemes. Google had taken action against its on Chrome browser in 2012. <a href="http://searchengineland.com/google-chrome-page-will-have-pagerank-reduced-due-to-sponsored-posts-106551" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;searchengineland.com&#x2F;google-chrome-page-will-have-pag...</a> check out for more info.
brentmover 11 years ago
There is something very important going on here. The reality is most search results are gamed &amp; Google knows it. Everyone should be afraid of this happening to them.<p>Clearly what RapGenius did was wrong, very stupid and extremely short sighted. However, you&#x27;re still going to find a good percentage of your search results today from rankings achieved with equally as shady strategies.<p>Google is too big &amp; too powerful to play these kind of games and arbitrarily decide who gets penalized and who doesn&#x27;t. Dare I say it but part of me feels like there is not enough bureaucracy in large penalty decisions considering their impact. There are literally millions of other sites doing the same thing and happily continuing their day.
johnpowellover 11 years ago
They seem to be using Quantcast and are directly measured. This should be interesting over the next week.<p><a href="https://www.quantcast.com/rapgenius.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quantcast.com&#x2F;rapgenius.com</a>
jsumrallover 11 years ago
Its very scary to build your business on being ranked high on Google. When you build your house on sand...
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usaphpover 11 years ago
Why did not they penalize their competitor websites which are using the same (even worse) tactics?
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lando2319over 11 years ago
Question: From Google&#x27;s perspective how exactly does Google lower the ranking for Rap Genius? I imagine they have some sort of &#x27;naughty&#x27; list. Does Google just discount the rankings by some number they determine is fair? And is this effect permanent? If Rap Genius plays by the rules and still manages to have good SEO, will they eventually bubble back up to the top or are they officially doomed to lower rankings?
knesover 11 years ago
Just did a quick &quot;bieber heartbreaker lyrics&quot; query and couldn&#x27;t find them in the first 10 pages of results...<p>Outch, this is going to hurt them.
jowiarover 11 years ago
As much as Rap Genius probably deserves it, this seems like it is treading dangerously close to Antitrust territory. Any lawyers on here?
arikrakover 11 years ago
Offering money or return-links for links is shady, but it&#x27;s not inherently illegal or anything.[1] Google doesn&#x27;t own the internet.<p>I wonder if it&#x27;s a worthwhile risk. While there are some high-profile busts, in general most sites probably don&#x27;t get caught. Though it&#x27;s probably harder to do effectively since Google improved their algorithms.<p>In the flower case [2], Google claimed the links hadn&#x27;t helped the sites. Though Google couldn&#x27;t have penalized all the Flower companies, since that would have made their results much worse.<p>[1] If you&#x27;re paying someone to link to you, that needs to be disclosed, but that doesn&#x27;t mean the link needs to be nofollow. Though I guess following that rule would make it very easy to be caught.<p>[2] <a href="http://searchengineland.com/ny-times-covers-paid-link-schemes-first-j-c-penney-now-flowers-industry-76340" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;searchengineland.com&#x2F;ny-times-covers-paid-link-scheme...</a>
pcooeltover 11 years ago
Rap Genius was given a &quot;manual action&quot; aka a penalty applied by an actual human because of the public outing that happened over the past few days, and the attention gained specifically by Matt Cutts.<p>Their overall link portfolio is not half as bad as their competition, however all this attention forced Google to take action being that they need to live up to their reputation as hard asses.<p>Let&#x27;s face it, the algorithm might not pick up on these bartered links because they are a drop in the bucket of their overall link portfolio.<p>Really more than anything this is another PR stunt by Google&#x27;s search quality team. They have been outing people on Twitter for the past month (backlinks.com I believe and another blackhat service) and want the general public to know that they mean business.
mspeuleskiover 11 years ago
Google practices the exact same dirty tactics it punishes smaller websites for. Note how they have a lot of ads all over their pages? If small websites do that, they get punished. Also, note how Google steals content from wikipedia and posts it next to search results? If small sites do that they get punished. Lastly, google is the world&#x27;s largest reseller of links, except their links are &quot;ok&quot;, for some obscure reason....you can pay google a large sum of money and see your link on billions of pages worldwide via link ads.<p>If you&#x27;re not scared of google&#x27;s double talk, blatant spying, abuse of monopolistic powers, then you either work for them or you are completely alienated.
snogglethorpeover 11 years ago
Man, that&#x27;s a crazily passive-aggressive article... the author dances around it, couching his dislike (and fear) in slippery and vague language, but the clear impression one is left with is that he feels Google is &quot;the enemy&quot;... &gt;&lt;
ryeonover 11 years ago
Google is seriously doing a disservice to its lyrics searching users by penalizing RG. RG offers (in my opinion) the best quality and the most information rich lyrics pages on the web, it doesn&#x27;t compare to anything out there.
xkarga00over 11 years ago
These guys will never grow up
badman_tingover 11 years ago
End result: now we have to use those regular, shitty lyrics sites again, or dig through the results. Mmmmm, so much better. You can&#x27;t even get there by specifying rap genius in your query! This blows.
timtamboy63over 11 years ago
Might be fair, but their argument about all their competitors doing this is completely valid. If Google&#x27;s going to penalize RapGenius, they should penalize the other lyrics websites as well.
mrcactu5over 11 years ago
Can someone explain to me why Google is formalizing this against Rap Genius?<p>I really like their n-gram viewer of the New York Times wedding announcements. <a href="http://blog.visual.ly/rap-genius-new-project-visualizes-30-years-of-new-york-times-wedding-data/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.visual.ly&#x2F;rap-genius-new-project-visualizes-30-y...</a><p>I would be interested in learning what they have to say about NLP (Natural Language Processing) since they deal with language which is quite vernacular.
joelrunyonover 11 years ago
&gt; Finally, it’s probably an incredibly dumb business model to be doing a lyrics site that hopes for Google traffic in a time when Google, like Bing, is moving toward providing direct answers. Lyrics, to my understanding, often have to be licensed. That makes them a candidate for Google to license directly and provide as direct answers.<p>Controversy aside - This seemed like the most interesting part of the write-up to me.
EGregover 11 years ago
Opportunity to make the next big song annotation site before New Year&#x27;s?<p>Seriously how hard could it be ... write a Node.js app that can handle 10k clients on one machine, and partition the data by the song being annotated. Don&#x27;t even need $1 million dollars. YouTube hosts the videos, anyway.<p>Ah, but there is just one problem... song lyrics are copyrighted and a license to some database is like $20,000<p>Wish I knew a way around that.
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smackfuover 11 years ago
What&#x27;s <i>really</i> amusing is that after the penalty, most searches that include &quot;rap genius&quot; now have this result on the first page: How Rap Genius Won the SEO Game<p><a href="http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5812335/how-rap-genius-won-the-seo-game" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.billboard.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;news&#x2F;5812335&#x2F;how-rap-geniu...</a>
cromwellianover 11 years ago
I never heard of rapgenius before this, or never noticed what lyric site I was on since I treat lyric lookups almost like dictionary lookups.<p>As a result of this story, I now have heard of RG. So ironically, any press is good press, and despite the banning, and the public shaming in the media, it may very well be the equivalent of millions of dollars in free brand awareness.
aspensmonsterover 11 years ago
People are always gaming the search engines. Lyric websites are some of the absolute worst perpetrators of this. They care for absolutely nothing but ad impressions and their sites are a tortuous experience to behold. That being said, I&#x27;d still say it&#x27;s a shame since for once, someone gaming the system actually had decent content to offer.
ateevchopraover 11 years ago
Interestingly now on searching Rap Genius on google, articles about them getting penalised are coming on the first 3 pages.
pcooeltover 11 years ago
fyi I grapped a rank report from a few days ago from some of their popular kwds. Looks like they are down 4-6 pages on average:<p><a href="http://cdn.elite-strategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/rap-genius-penalty.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cdn.elite-strategies.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2013&#x2F;12&#x2F;r...</a>
pbreitover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m confused and concerned by Google&#x27;s policy. I make a product. If I send out product to blogger with a review request (which would, of course, include a link to my site), am I running afoul of the guidelines? I don&#x27;t even care that much about the Google juice as I do the coverage.
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sneakover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s super lame that Google penalizes individual cases versus just fixing their algorithms across the board, because it means that other sites that employ similar techniques and aren&#x27;t high-profile&#x2F;useful enough to get posted about to HN are able to continue unimpeded.
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ben0x539over 11 years ago
I&#x27;m shocked to see that their previous fairly good ranking has been fraudulent all along.
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AznHisokaover 11 years ago
Looks like ordinary visitors can&#x27;t even find their site now: <a href="https://twitter.com/fuckshivan/status/415879789522587648" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;fuckshivan&#x2F;status&#x2F;415879789522587648</a><p>The power of Google.
kyle128over 11 years ago
Let&#x27;s not forget anyone that pays google in some way (adwords) bounces back from this almost immediately. Aka 6 months or less. Have known people only spending 10k per month that bounced back from penalization in 2-3 months.
usaphpover 11 years ago
That just proves how google search algorithms become inaccurate. I agree, RapGenius did some shady things, BUT it still has a better content then other websites which are now ranked much higher.
ilakshover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m not an expert in SEO but I bet 1&#x2F;3 to 1&#x2F;2 of the serious SEO organizations&#x2F;individuals do the same thing or something very similar.<p>&quot;Its not cheating unless you get caught&quot;
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johnwardover 11 years ago
The funny thing about this is that rap genius is the most user friendly site and it should be out ranking all of the other spam lyric sites.
badappleover 11 years ago
what about others that are doing the same thing.<p>for example TINT<p>tintup.com<p>once you create a free account they have the following:<p>Dear valued Tint customer, Would you like to write a review about Tint? In exchange for your opinions&#x2F;blog post, we are giving away 50% off FOREVER promo code for our Plus Plan. To learn more, click the button below:<p>screen shot: <a href="http://imgur.com/wDnAJ4c" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;wDnAJ4c</a>
minimaxirover 11 years ago
It&#x27;s worth noting that Rap Genius was not penalized on Bing. (and Yahoo which uses Bing).<p>RG may want to consider a hedge bet on search engines.
poopicusover 11 years ago
Damn, I tried searching up some rap lyrics that I knew worked a couple of days ago, no dice. How long does this penalisation last?
DannoHungover 11 years ago
If RapGenius is smart, they&#x27;ll turn this into beef and get front page coverage on a bunch of newspapers and websites.
chmartinover 11 years ago
You would think Google would be able to tell that a Justin Bieber link does not belong on an arbitrary twitter post
tomasienover 11 years ago
How long will this last? Rap Genius is a fantastic asset to the world, I hope this isn&#x27;t permanent.
ljlolelover 11 years ago
Try this:<p>[bieber heartbreaker lyrics rap genius] or even [bieber heartbreaker lyrics rapgenius.com]
malkiaover 11 years ago
This is one of the things where there is no clear right or wrong.
qq66over 11 years ago
When you don&#x27;t get Rapgenius when you search &quot;Bieber Rapgenius,&quot; you know that Google is forgoing its mission of serving users and instead just flexing its big muscles for everyone to see.
easy_riderover 11 years ago
Couldn&#x27;t resist <a href="http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/44344545.jpg" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cdn.memegenerator.net&#x2F;instances&#x2F;500x&#x2F;44344545.jpg</a>
notastartupover 11 years ago
searching 2pac lyrics rap genius yields no rapgenius.com either. it shows all the competitor lyric sites but not rapgenius.<p>I have mixed feelings about this. How long until we see a game of he-said-she-said? Of course, socially engineered link building aimed at gaming the SERP is against the interest of consumers and google. However, now that we can see a competitor get taken out from google SERP by pointing their attention to a malicious technique, we should see more stories like this.<p>The problem I have with SERP is that while it&#x27;s good at finding the most relevant site (still returns spammy sites so not perfect) most of the time, it&#x27;s built around the advertisement model. It doesn&#x27;t give you a snapshot of the cross section of the data you are looking at across all the domains out there so that you can&#x27;t choose on your own which lyric is the most to your liking (it really doesn&#x27;t matter because lyrics are same across different websites). So the question of who ranks first even though they have identical content shows some underlying inefficiencies caused by the Advertisement revenue model. The more there is, the more advertisement gets seen and clicked.<p>I feel that the search engine space with selling our attention to advertisements only creates more waste by others trying to get a share of the revenue by jumping into a profitable niche by creating an identical or similar content (article spinning etc). In turn, more competition would create people to use more Adwords or other advertising platforms. The end result is that consumer ends up with untrustworthy websites with content in the back of their priorities. Content should be judged by comparing it with other websites that offer the same content with an overview listing all the different domains showing that content. While displaying such cross domain contents, it should not bring advertisement as an incentive model.
greatsuccessover 11 years ago
How is what Rap Genius any different than selling ad space, Googles core business? It seems to be that this was just an interpersonal request for an AD to link back to Rap Genius.<p>What is wrong with that anyway? Adwords and Adsense are just an affiliate program anyway.<p>I dont see much of a problem with it.