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Optimal Characters Per Line

189 pointsby mikeyandersonover 11 years ago

44 comments

_deliriumover 11 years ago
This is about the font size I read most stuff on the web at, so I guess I agree. The font on most sites is too small for me, so I browser-zoom them in 1-3 stops.<p>As long as browser zoom works, though, I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s a huge deal if people have preferences for larger or smaller fonts. Firefox, at least, even remembers your zoom level between visits to the same site. What really annoys me is that browser zoom breaks some sites. I&#x27;d recommend testing your site at one or two zoom levels in and out and see if the results are at least vaguely usable.
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kyberiasover 11 years ago
Very, very hard to read due to way too large font. I immediately had to zoom out in order to read it.<p>I don&#x27;t think the author can show that this big font provides better readability.<p>One can easily make assumptions on how far the average reader views the screen and optimize the font size to that. As the comments here show, the font size selection here is too large.
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pubbyover 11 years ago
Large fonts stress my eyes more than smaller ones. I fit less words in the center of my vision with a large font, which means I read slower and my eyes have to travel longer.<p>Having ~60 character columns is the important thing. Large fonts, not so much.
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elnateover 11 years ago
Ironically I found that page hard to read. I think it might the constantly having to switch my eyes back at the end of a line breaks the mental flow of the sentances. Anyone else experience similar?
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Lucover 11 years ago
We can&#x27;t really debate the issue given that some of us are seeing a huge font (much larger than the &#x27;magazine held up to the screen&#x27;), and some a more reasonable one, all depending on the width of our browser window. Apparently it flips between the two sizes around 900px width.<p>I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s what the author intended. Back to the drawing board I reckon...
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TacticalCoderover 11 years ago
I find it interesting that both the blog entry and the picture of the physical book he&#x27;s using are not justified but simply jagged right.<p>I&#x27;ve written books in both LaTeX and QuarkXPress and they were always using justification.<p>Actually most books in english &#x2F; french are justified (and probably many other languages) are justified. Heck, I couldn&#x27;t find a single book here not using justification and my oldest book (16th century!) is using justification!<p>As a matter of personal preference I find justification way easier on the eyes than justification (as long as hyphenation is done right) and I&#x27;m very thankful that most books out there are using justification.<p>Of course justification on the Web is hard, especially without hyphenation and even more so if you try to use lines with few characters.<p>But I find it a bit weird to &quot;make a point&quot; by taking of picture of a book which is jagged right when something like, say, 99% of the books out there are using justification.
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clarryover 11 years ago
<i>I hope that this article has at least caused you to think about the way your web page displays text.</i><p>I find it sad that the web page (every web page) has to do it. It would be so nice if the web page were text, which the browser displayed.
teleclimberover 11 years ago
&gt; ...on this blog their are about 75 characters...<p>Sorry to be that guy. I only point out grammar flubs if they are on 20px font or greater.
dredmorbiusover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m all about readable fonts, though mikeyanderson is going a bit overboard in the <i>too big</i> direction.<p>He&#x27;s also committing the fatal sin of mixing ems (for his h1 title font size) and px (for his h1 line height). The result is overlapping characters: <a href="http://i.imgur.com/tEplJmv.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;tEplJmv.png</a><p>I&#x27;ve griped on HN (and elsewhere) more than once about small fonts, low contrast (<a href="http://www.contrastrebellion.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.contrastrebellion.com&#x2F;</a> can&#x27;t get enough good words from me), and the reading-friendly tools such as Readability.com (despite some recent updates I&#x27;m not entirely happy with), InstaPaper, Pocket, etc. The latter are a great way to avoid this pain with minimal effort, and &quot;read now&quot; bookmarklets make this pretty near instant for most users. The styles presented by any of these services would do well as a default for virtually all content-rich sites.<p>I also have become all but obsessive in restyling sites whose CSS fails me. Which is to say, most of them (including Hacker News: <a href="http://stylebot.me/styles/2945" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;stylebot.me&#x2F;styles&#x2F;2945</a>). Using the Stylebot Chrome plugin, I&#x27;ve created, as of this writing, 819 stylesheets (some applied to multiple sites, some the same basic &quot;unstyled.css&quot; sometimes lightly modified). I think I&#x27;ve reached the point where I can make some fairly definitive statements, at least as far as UI&#x2F;UX goes:<p>⚫ Use ems. Do not use px (graphics positioning excepted). <i>NEVER</i> mix ems and px.<p>⚫ Provide a high contrast between foreground and background. No, you&#x27;re not limited to black on white (though it&#x27;s a safe choice). Brad Frost&#x27;s website illustrates a styled but very clear example (and it&#x27;s what he does): <a href="http://bradfrostweb.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bradfrostweb.com&#x2F;</a> (It&#x27;s also a beautifully fluid site).<p>⚫ While we&#x27;re talking about contrast: take your &quot;but black on white is too much contrast&quot; talk and bin it. The guidance for brown type on an off-white page is for paper. Which is a reflective medium. Screens are, almost always, emissive. Which is to say, they have a maximum brightness, a <i>much</i> lower native contrast ratio than paper, and their display properties get markedly worse as ambient light levels increase. Most displays have a brightness&#x2F;contrast control which can <i>reduce</i> the maximum brightness, and on many devices this is either automatic or easily accessed by the user (Fn+PgUp&#x2F;PgDn on my Thinkpad, Macs have similar controls). However they cannot be pushed <i>over</i> their maximums, and in many cases, that&#x27;s going to be insufficient to read your tiny low-contrast font. In my experience, any text at #333 or lighter is already <i>too light</i>.<p>⚫ Single-column designs are almost always preferable to multi-column. With an adaptive width, this will frequently address the needs of both desktop and mobile users with very few additional adaptations.<p>⚫ Respect your user&#x27;s font choices. There are two classes of user: those who&#x27;ve selected font sizes to address their reading comfort and&#x2F;or visual needs, and those who have no idea or clue. By forcing a specification on them, you&#x27;re frustrating both. Using relative sizes &quot;medium&quot;, &quot;smaller&quot;, &quot;larger&quot; is a better bet.<p>⚫ Break the zoom button and you may not die, but your page is dead to me.<p>⚫ Don&#x27;t include iframes with their own stylesheets. These <i>cannot</i> be overridden by the user. And yes, I&#x27;m talking to you, Amazon. Given the visual discomfort these elements present, I&#x27;ve simply set them to &quot;display: none&quot;.<p>⚫ Don&#x27;t explicitly scale HTML elements (p, a, li, tr, td, ol, ul, dt, dd, blockquote, pre). Style classes or IDs instead. One of my quick-and-dirty fixes is to apply an &quot;important!&quot; inherit property to each of these elments. CSS hackers will know about reset.css stylesheets, these can be useful to users as well.<p>⚫ Don&#x27;t push your text to the edge of the screen. Another style I apply to virtually all sites is a &quot;padding: 0 2em 2em 2em;&quot; to the main text block. Generally padding at the top isn&#x27;t necessary, but keeping the text from running straight into the gutter greatly improves readability.<p>⚫ It&#x27;s hard to go wrong with a 45-55em max-width, auto width, and auto left and right margins.<p>⚫ Put some fucking padding and&#x2F;or margins around images and other inline elements. 0.5 - 1em at a minimum.<p>⚫ CSS columns (a trick I picked up recently here on HN) are a good way for presenting your navigation &#x2F; sidebar elements. Not supported in all browsers (what is), but the good ones do. You can see them used in the article below.<p>⚫ And if I sound fucking grumpy, it&#x27;s because I <i>am</i> fucking grumpy. My first response to opening your goddamned webpage shouldn&#x27;t be &quot;fuck it, do I really want to spend time fixing this?&quot; Because usually the answer is &quot;no.&quot;<p>I recently posted to reddit with several specific examples of sites converted from multi-column to single-column:<p><a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/1tm4ox/user_site_restyling_multicolumn_vs_fullwidth/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;webdev&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1tm4ox&#x2F;user_site_res...</a>
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gnicholasover 11 years ago
In my experience, it&#x27;s difficult — if not impossible — to please all of the people all of the time. My startup (www.BeeLineReader.com) has browser plugins that reformat text and display it using eye-guiding color gradients. We get comments from people telling us that the plugin&#x27;s text is too big, and we get comments telling us the that the text is too small. I suppose we should be happy that the ratio of these comments is roughly 1:1 — maybe this means we&#x27;ve struck the right balance?<p>Similarly, we get people telling us that we absolutely must use serif fonts, and others telling us that serifs make text harder to read and must be avoided.<p>Since our startup is focused on enhancing readability, we take these concerns and comments to heart, but we have realized that much of readability is more subjective and less guided by universal, hard-and-fast rules. So now we offer multiple text sizes and are going to incorporate multiple fonts.<p>...But then you get into the problem of offering too many choices instead of telling the user what is right (the paradox of choice). Sigh.
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lessnonymousover 11 years ago
I think the author has a point .. however we&#x27;re all conditioned now to the standard-ish font size on the web. We all sit at a distance from the screen optimised for a particular size - and as most sites are about the same we zoom in or our a little. Changing that is just jarring.<p>The number of characters per line is, however, important. I tend to either resize my browser to narrow sites like HN or use the &#x27;Instapaper Text&#x27; button to totally transform the page.<p>One things missing in this article is talk about line-height. The longer the line of text and the longer the paragraph, the more line-height you need. The white gap between the two lines helps the eye to find the next line as it quickly scans back to the start.<p>Many news sites still use a small line-height reminiscent of newspapers where whitespace is expensive. I think the designers think it gives the feel of &#x27;real&#x27; news.<p>TL;DR: lines around 70 - 80 characters are good. But more important is sufficient line-height to scan back to the start of the next line instantly.
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lucb1eover 11 years ago
For the record, I zoomed out on this website for a more comfortable read. Not really the way to drive your point home I think.
dangoldinover 11 years ago
Nice post. Something similar that was posted on here a while back is the &quot;Interactive Guide to Blog Typography&quot;: <a href="http://www.kaikkonendesign.fi/typography/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kaikkonendesign.fi&#x2F;typography&#x2F;</a>
userbinatorover 11 years ago
<i>On each full paragraph line of text on this blog there are about 75 characters—which is widely regarded as the most characters that you can put on a line and still have it optimal for readers.</i><p>I still use 80 columns as the limit on all the text documents I write, including source code. Occasionally I&#x27;ll push it up to 128 but most of the time even I personally prefer 80 as an ideal width.<p>Also, who maximises a browser, unless their monitor is tiny? Especially with resolutions where they are today. I have around a dozen other apps open at the moment and none of them are maximised.
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mmgutzover 11 years ago
As others have pointed out here, the article above is much too large on an Apple 27&quot; Cinema Display.<p>One of my peeves with web pages in general is I choose a default font face, size and weight based on my monitor or laptop screen and the distance from which I view. The first thing usability experts do is override that with a custom font face at fixed point sizes. I don&#x27;t get bored looking at the apps on the desktop using my preferences, why is it different on the web?
lnanek2over 11 years ago
I like the linked site, personally. I&#x27;ve always liked big huge readable text and will zoom or text zoom a site to make it so.<p>That said, I do think it is tougher to scan his site for relevant headings&#x2F;navigation&#x2F;etc. that I want to interact with. The text is just so huge and there&#x27;s nothing else and even just quick checking the headings you have to scroll a lot. Smaller text would allow more glance-ability.
shaminoover 11 years ago
Maybe the author kept under the character limit that he proposed, but due to large font I still had trouble reading. Not only was it hard to find the next line after finishing the previous one, but it was also hard reading each word. I only want to glance at a word to know what it is - which is why those &quot;the the&quot; tricks work.
nchlswuover 11 years ago
So there were some great points in there, all of which were valid. But immediately addressing those points doesn&#x27;t mean using large type follows.<p>Side note: as monitors increase in size, I&#x27;m curious of the general population is increasing the distance between their eyes and the screen
Kiroover 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t know. I found the article very hard to read.
anonuover 11 years ago
You can never really know how the end result is going to appear to your users&#x2F;readers because everyone has different types of monitors, resolutions, layouts. For example, I have 4 monitors at work that have all been rotated 90 degrees from the &quot;norm&quot; - in other words they&#x27;re all in portrait mode. My browser window dimensions are thus longer than it is wide - which I think is not what most web developers expect. Furthermore, I really do enjoy small fonts and much prefer to see as much of a site on 1 page as possible. I had to zoom out of that page just to be able to read it comfortably without scrolling too much.
jherikoover 11 years ago
did anyone else quickly notice how many eye movements they were making on this page and how irritating it was? i&#x27;ve never before noticed this to be a problem... its surprisingly distracting, and i felt like it was slowing me down which became frustrating quite quickly.<p>i don&#x27;t think i have a particular bias about this - i usually use tiny fonts and want my screen filled with text for coding purposes - although i do tend to stick to 80 chars or less per line for code as well but i think that because code isn&#x27;t read quickly i&#x27;ve just never noticed this before...
wudfover 11 years ago
When I&#x27;m reading a book, I&#x27;ve already decided that I&#x27;m going to read every word. On your website (on any website), I&#x27;m going to skim first to evaluate how much fluff and filler is written and to hopefully get to the point. With such large font, there is so little content in front of me that I&#x27;m actually frustrated with the encumbrance. If I didn&#x27;t know better, I&#x27;d feel insulted that you deemed it necessary to try to control my browsing experience so strictly.
Foomandoonianover 11 years ago
Ironically when I read this on my iPhone the text size was much smaller than an average novel. (Also, the line-heights need some TLC).<p>I like larger text, but I find this too big (when I read it on a computer). And I think for valid reasons beyond just personal preference. For starters, it&#x27;s hard to scan or keep track of where you are in the post. I don&#x27;t think Nielsen would hold this up as a great example of scanability - on my 11&quot; Air I get just about two paragraphs on screen at the same time.
mariusmgover 11 years ago
&quot;I’m sick and tired of cramped websites that have tiny type and don’t use the whole screen well&quot;<p>It&#x27;s own site doesn&#x27;t use the whole screen. So pot...meet kettle.
taericover 11 years ago
Seems silly to say it should mimic a book, without acknowledging that many different type sizes exist in books.<p>Though, in general I agree with the font size needing to be larger. I&#x27;m curious if it is as important as portrayed. Probably depends on the type of reading being done. And, as always, effective use of graphics trumps most &quot;text size&quot; decisions, I would think. (As I look over a comic with ridiculously small type.)
gwernover 11 years ago
Has OP A&#x2F;B tested his claims and theories in any way, or is it just a tissue of personal preferences backed by rationalizations and just-so stories?
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Greedover 11 years ago
I actually found this really hard to read because of how large the text is, the author needs to reevaluate his font size.
analog31over 11 years ago
Limiting the text<p>Just a few letters per line<p>A novel concept
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tech-no-logicalover 11 years ago
first thing I did to make it readable was hitting &quot;ctrl -&quot; three times. so the site kind of defeats itself in that respect.<p>I agree that there&#x27;s an optimal number of characters per line, but it doesn&#x27;t necessarily mean you need huge fonts. just make your content more narrow, or use a multi-column layout.
mddwover 11 years ago
I wholeheartedly agree with your point, but why do you use Facebook comments, displayed in a whooping 11px ?
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tshadwellover 11 years ago
I can&#x27;t read this while doing something else - I have to select the window and scroll every few words.
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narsilover 11 years ago
Shorter lines are easier to read. Long lines with large characters like in the OP&#x27;s post are harder.
brownbatover 11 years ago
For better readability, try 75 characters per sentence.<p>The larger font amplified the &quot;wall of text&quot; feeling.
scholiaover 11 years ago
Oliver Reichenstein from iA did this much better in 2006. He also had a photo of a book next to a screen....<p>The 100% Easy-2-Read Standard <a href="http://ia.net/blog/100e2r/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ia.net&#x2F;blog&#x2F;100e2r&#x2F;</a>
rileyjshawover 11 years ago
If anyone is confused like I was when I opened this, there&#x27;s a media query that reduces the font size when your window is less than 900px wide. Full screen it and the article will have huge text.
lognover 11 years ago
Maybe this is why, even on an 11 inch netbook, I generally surf the web with the browser window at about 3&#x2F;5ths the overall screen width. I don&#x27;t like columns that get too wide.
superpatosainzover 11 years ago
I love how this carefully designed site is sensible with its readibility and then you get the Facebook-powered comments with letters smaller than ants.<p>Not OP&#x27;s fault, but just a heads up.
chjover 11 years ago
Information Architects has a much more thorough article on this matter:<p><a href="http://ia.net/blog/100e2r/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ia.net&#x2F;blog&#x2F;100e2r&#x2F;</a>
coldteaover 11 years ago
Nice, but here&#x27;s an improvement: lose the 2-line section titles.<p>Make them slightly smaller so they fit in one line, and can be read in one fell swoop.
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ianet-googover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m reminded of the &#x27;Osprey - The Magic of Reading&#x27; paper by the late (great) Bill Hill
mattdeboardover 11 years ago
Point #4 is basic journalism. Headline, nut graf + inverted pyramid.
0xdeadbeefbabeover 11 years ago
I hate reading on any screen but my black and white kindle.
gambogiover 11 years ago
I nearly lost it at &quot;inforamavores&quot;
mwwwover 11 years ago
Nm