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The Kiva Fairytale

89 pointsby jkurniaover 11 years ago

6 comments

curiouscatsover 11 years ago
I agree Kiva should have more results data. The article is fairly lame though.<p>In one quote is says &quot;With interest rates often exceeding 100 percent,&quot; which I am pretty sure is completely false. I have made hundreds of loans and I worry about rates above 40%. I seek lower rates (often between 20-30%) and find them often. The article says Kiva doesn&#x27;t discuss the rate - but it is shown on every lending page, as a lender you can select based on loan rate (I know, I do).<p>The article also doesn&#x27;t provide data either on the failure of Kiva to help. Granted I think Kiva should provide more data on the impact of loans and whether it is helping or not - I like to believe it is but &lt;a href=&quot;<a href="http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2009/10/16/micro-credit-research/&quot;&gt;I" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;investing.curiouscatblog.net&#x2F;2009&#x2F;10&#x2F;16&#x2F;micro-credit-...</a> do question how useful Kiva really is&lt;&#x2F;a&gt;.<p>I don&#x27;t know about expenses for Kiva (though sites like Charity navigator rate it highly). But as a lender on Kiva it really doesn&#x27;t matter. Kiva expenses are paid by donation. To lend using Kiva you can make donations but you don&#x27;t have to. High expenses matter it seems to me if you are choosing who to donate to.<p>Kiva does take advantage of human psychology in a smart way it seems to me, connecting lenders to people that need loans. It is a bit of a fiction as the article points out but it is also real - your re-payments are based on that loan. I see the benefits of that human connection as worthwhile (people like that human connection - showing their photos adds to that) though agree if you want to find fault it is something you can question.<p>I like another site that provides charity to local groups directly <a href="http://www.globalgiving.org/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.globalgiving.org&#x2F;</a> I do figure there is more chance of fraud given the nature of having lots of little organizations that it is hard to monitor. But I like getting directly to small groups that are making an effort and being able to target what you like.<p>Some sites that have published research on micro lending<p><pre><code> http:&#x2F;&#x2F;microfinanceresearch.org&#x2F; http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.microfinancegateway.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;site&#x2F;m&#x2F; http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cgap.org&#x2F;</code></pre>
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skybrianover 11 years ago
If you&#x27;re interested in this sort of thing, you might want to give to GiveDirectly instead. It gives grants instead of loans (so interest rates aren&#x27;t an issue) and is one of the very few charity organizations to do randomized controlled trials to prove its effectiveness.<p>More detail than you probably want to know: <a href="http://www.givewell.org/international/top-charities/give-directly" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.givewell.org&#x2F;international&#x2F;top-charities&#x2F;give-dir...</a>
steve19over 11 years ago
The article boils down to<p>1) Kiva spends to much money on marketing and is therefor inefficient. 2) Kiva gets to much media attention. 3) Kiva are attracting more than their share of micro-investors. 4) Kiva does not export Western cultural values.<p>Regarding number 4, I think individual investors should decided what and what not to fund. I find cock&#x2F;dog-fighting to be inhumane, but I enjoy hunting, many people would say hunting is inhumane and immoral and a smaller group would go as far to say &quot;eating meat is murder&quot;. What about businesses using malnourished horses to transport goods? Should Kiva not fund anything animal related?<p>As far as only funding legal organizations. I am sure Kiva does not fund narcotic production or gun running. But how can they possibly be sure all businesses they fund are 100% legal, complying with all health, zoning, retail, licensing etc. laws of the local county&#x2F;state&#x2F;country?
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unclebucknastyover 11 years ago
Another thing that&#x27;s interesting is that it&#x27;s really not all about enabling entrepreneurship. Increasingly, I have noticed loans for education [1], home-building [2], and other needs.<p>I point this out not to be a jerk. Certainly, these are worthwhile causes in themselves, but there is no lack of traditional charitable giving opportunities elsewhere. I suspect Kiva knows this and is really selling the more differentiated and compelling idea of helping people to stand on their own, as the article mentions.<p>To be fair, most of their loans are still around enterprise, but I cannot help but wonder if loan requests for such needs reveal that the very idea behind Kiva is unrealistic to some extent. That is, when you have people who don&#x27;t have homes or basic subsistence wherewithal, is it realistic that they can launch or run a successful business? Is it also realistic to expect that a significant portion of their loans won&#x27;t end up redirected to other needs? This concern is not helped by the fact that the only updates I&#x27;ve ever received are regarding loan repayment, and not how the recipient is actually faring. It&#x27;s also not encouraging when I see people requesting loans to pay off other loans. [3]<p>Recent articles posted on HN have shown that just giving money to poor people with no pretense or payback requirement is surprisingly effective. Maybe Kiva is selling a dream that has greater marketing appeal, but less actual effectiveness.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.kiva.org/lend/667533" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kiva.org&#x2F;lend&#x2F;667533</a><p>[2] <a href="http://www.kiva.org/lend/667257" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kiva.org&#x2F;lend&#x2F;667257</a><p>[3] <a href="http://www.kiva.org/lend/652349" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kiva.org&#x2F;lend&#x2F;652349</a>
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nmridulover 11 years ago
- Interest rate : You should understand that these are people that no mainstream institute would be willing to lend money to, even at high interest rates. So Kiva&#x27;s high interest rate is not really high.<p>- Marketing expense : I joined Kiva because they said they will make the first contribution on behalf of me. I chose the borrower and Kiva sent the money. I didn&#x27;t spend anything. I&#x27;m sure this would come in as marketing expense. This was one of their largest marketing campaign.
jasoncavnarover 11 years ago
Yay for pseudo-journalism! @mfheretic, fact checking your work wouldn&#x27;t be hard.<p>Kiva&#x27;s Response: <a href="http://www.nextbillion.net/blogpost.aspx?blogid=3731" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nextbillion.net&#x2F;blogpost.aspx?blogid=3731</a>