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1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

43 pointsby Benvieover 11 years ago

22 comments

jsdaltonover 11 years ago
While true, the <i>actual</i> data presents a different picture:<p><a href="http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;FXMlOZB.png</a><p>[source: <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nsf.gov&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;seind14&#x2F;content&#x2F;chapter-7&#x2F;c07....</a>]<p>So actually, the U.S. had the second <i>highest</i> score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries&#x2F;regions for the remaining questions.<p>The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey was the question about evolution -- only 48% of Americans got that right, significantly behind the rest of the pack.
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dubfanover 11 years ago
The full paper is here (link in the story is broken): <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nsf.gov&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;seind14&#x2F;content&#x2F;chapter-7&#x2F;c07....</a><p>To me the worst part is on page 25. Only about 30% of Americans understand scientific inquiry. I believe this is the root of the anti-science undercurrent in mainstream American society.
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_xhokover 11 years ago
Somewhat related: I&#x27;ve found in my general experiences that many people don&#x27;t know what a scientific theory is. They think it means a guess. For example, a lot of people I&#x27;ve talked to think the Big Bang &quot;Theory&quot; is a work of fiction someone invented.<p>I&#x27;ve found that among a lot of the people I talk to there&#x27;s this severe, fundamental lack of understanding around how science works. Not a lack of scientific knowledge per se; just a misunderstanding of science&#x27;s <i>modus operandi</i>.
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rayinerover 11 years ago
The question as it&#x27;s worded is: &quot;does the earth go around the sun or does the sun go around the earth?&quot; There&#x27;s all sorts of reasons someone might get that question wrong. The way it&#x27;s framed makes you visualize two systems and pick the right one, and people might have a problem with that. The phrasing depends on word order being significant in English in ways that might be confusing to foreign language speakers (of which the U.S. has many). Heck, just parsing it took me enough time that someone rushing through the survey might just not think about it too carefully before answering.<p>I bet if you showed two pictures, with a large sun orbiting the earth and one with a small earth orbiting a large sun, you&#x27;d get a much higher percentage right.
andrewflnrover 11 years ago
The astrology thing is possibly a matter of vocabulary. Especially in a &quot;let&#x27;s talk about science&quot; context, it would be easy to just hear &quot;astronomy&quot; and say &quot;sure, that&#x27;s a science&quot;.
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alphydanover 11 years ago
I had a fascinating discussion with an ex trucker in Spain (who after an injury worked selling souvenirs in the old windmills where Don Quijote had once jousted according to Cervantes&#x27; book).<p>When he heard I was a physicist, he apologized in advance for being such a tool ... and then admitted that he thought the earth <i>rotating</i> around the sun was a mistake. He saw the sunrise every morning, always in the East, move around ... and then set in the West. Plus, wouldn&#x27;t we feel the speed, or even disintegrate if we travelled so fast around the sun?<p>It was the first time I had encountered somebody who didn&#x27;t think heliocentrism was possible, let alone other cosmological models. I paused before answering ... but then realized the man was right.<p>What evidence did he have that contradicted a sun rotating around the sun? He only studied until age 12. He never had a Foucault pendulum. And even if he had had one, the fixed stars idea and the earth&#x27;s rotation is not the only interpretation.<p>I asked ... what about the astronauts who have been up there? Surely they must have seen the earth rotating. He was unconvinced. Things seem to rotate when you are very high as a result of vertigo. Could that be the explanation? What about the great speed of the earth he insisted? Wouldn&#x27;t we feel that? [nobody had ever explained that to him, including his son who was an engineer]<p>I realized that this man was much more of a scientist than his peers who blindly believe what they are told in school: &quot;the earth rotates around the sun&quot;. But ask them a deeper question: What is the evidence? Could the evidence be interpreted otherwise? Are we fooling ourselves (as is very common in science)?<p>Of course the answer to these questions is child&#x27;s play for most technical people. There is a ton of evidence. But are the 3&#x2F;4s aware of it? or do they just parrot the accepted wisdom.<p>The man turned out to be very smart, having learned the names of all his souvenirs in Korean, Japanese, German, French ... and having strong opinions about the dogmatism that religion blindly accepts.<p>So it&#x27;s possible that in that 20% of &quot;non believers&quot; there are true scientists (or Quixotes!) who refuse to believe what they are told before seeing credible experimental evidence that they can reason deeply about.
dgantover 11 years ago
Here&#x27;s a different way of looking a the data, on page 23 of <a href="http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nsf.gov&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;seind14&#x2F;content&#x2F;chapter-7&#x2F;c07....</a><p>Americans know about as much as people in similarly developed countries.<p>Really. Compare to the success rates versus South Korea and Japan. And then compare it to less economically developed parts of the world. Americans were the most correct among the surveyed populations about radiation, antibiotics, atomic structure, and lasers.<p>The takeaway shouldn&#x27;t be &quot;Americans are ignorant&quot; but really that &quot;Education is hard&quot; and &quot;Poverty inhibits education&quot;
eksithover 11 years ago
Depressing, but not unexpected. The problem isn&#x27;t necessarily anti-science; it&#x27;s anti-authority. Anti telling me what I can or can&#x27;t believe. Anti you think your &quot;science&quot; can tell me what I know in my heart&#x2F;what I feel in my bones?<p>The last thing we should do is try to mash heads with this level of warm comfort and confidence in ignorance and instead ask questions to probe the depths of what they do know and why.<p>Why do you believe this? How would that happen?<p>People may be allergic to being told what to do and what to accept, but inviting them to wade in the waters of the scientific method may allow them to find answers themselves.
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judkover 11 years ago
1 in 4 Americans don&#x27;t know a piece of technical trivia that has zero relevance to their lives, and is equivalent to their model on all ways that matter to them.
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sssbcover 11 years ago
So?<p>Even if title quote is true, what percentage of the population needs to know this (to live better, work better, act in some different fashion)? 5%? 1%? less?<p>In other words, it is knowledge of trivia for most people. Perfectly fine, if you go in for that sort of thing (and I do), but why look down your nose at those who don&#x27;t?<p>Of course, knowing the scientific method can change how you act, but so can understanding lots of things. Finite time and attention. Or be a hater.
sonar_unover 11 years ago
The EU was even worse at 66% of those surveyed got the answer correct.
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omaraliover 11 years ago
I thought it&#x27;s relative to what frame of reference you choose.
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pessimizerover 11 years ago
You mean the 6000 year old earth borne through the ether by angels?<p><a href="http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/Four-Americans-Believe-Strict-Creationism.aspx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gallup.com&#x2F;poll&#x2F;145286&#x2F;Four-Americans-Believe-Str...</a> <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/23/believing-in-angels_n_1167100.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;12&#x2F;23&#x2F;believing-in-angels...</a>
baddoxover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m not sure how you would setup the study, but has there ever been a study to see what percentage of people will respond to a survey like this incorrectly <i>even if they know the correct answer</i>, either due to a mistake, or general disinterest, or confusion over the question? Especially for the last possibility, I think <i>reading comprehension</i> could be a big culprit here.
jusben1369over 11 years ago
Everybody thinks the general population should be more knowledgeable about the particular topic they love. &quot;Everyone should learn how to code!&quot; &quot;I can&#x27;t believe people are so apathetic about how laws are made!&quot; &quot;Most people don&#x27;t understand basic finance; how can they buy a home and save for retirement properly!&quot;
BrownBuffaloover 11 years ago
I have Wikipedia for this. No joke. This is kind of like the argument about students during math using a calculator. General knowledge is less of a requirement even here in NYS with the Regents system. California I&#x27;m sure is more of the same. As long as you know how to find it, that&#x27;s all that matters in life.
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trianglemanover 11 years ago
Also interesting, only 32 percent of Indians answered &quot;true&quot; to the statement &quot;The continents have been moving their location for millions of years and will continue to move&quot; whereas 83 percent of Americans answered this question correctly.
mercurialover 11 years ago
I simply refuse to believe that. The notion that a quarter of the people supposed to vote in the ruler of the most powerful nation can&#x27;t wrap their head around the most basic of scientific facts is too depressing to contemplate.
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RivieraKidover 11 years ago
Sherlock Holmes didn&#x27;t either and he was a rockstar detective.
robbiepover 11 years ago
This makes me so sad
antocvover 11 years ago
Who cares about these studies?<p>I too would answer that the Earth orbits the moon if a sciency guy approached me in any kind of test and asked this question.
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wapsover 11 years ago
In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don&#x27;t know the earth doesn&#x27;t orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn&#x27;t change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it&#x27;s matter the distance doesn&#x27;t change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around the sun at the relative speed difference that the earth the sun have, and then transpose said trajectory into an approximate euclidean space with the sun as it&#x27;s point of origin results in a (roughly) ellipsoid trajectory.<p>But make no mistake : the earth is standing still, it&#x27;s not moving. There is no actual movement of either the earth, or the sun, or for that matter, any other planet or body, as a result of gravity. The earth is not circling the sun, it is moving in a straight line through what just happens to be non-euclidean space. Hell there is no gravity acting on the earth, nor for that matter on you (on the contrary : you are being accelerated upward, not downward at roughly the rate at which the earth sucks up space).<p>(Here movement is defined as the only viable relativistic definition of movement : a movement that can be observed to be different from standing still, meaning travelling at a fixed speed in a straight line is not moving at all)<p>If the earth ever starts orbiting the sun, life on earth will become impossible in a matter of minutes, as the resulting acceleration would affect magma flow and would very quickly change the entire surface of the earth into a liquid state. In that case the earth&#x27;s surface would quickly change to the average temperature of the earth itself : ~6000 degrees celcius.<p>People say that the earth is orbiting the sun, because people are thinking within an euclidean reference frame. If you ignore the fact that we live in a relativistic universe and just act as if it&#x27;s euclidean, it looks like the earth is orbiting. But in (what we think) is the real structure of the universe, that&#x27;s not the case at all.<p>Saying that the earth orbits the sun, or God forbid, that it circles the sun, are flat-out wrong statements. The last time scientists actually believed that was about 1931. The &quot;science&quot; that is being popularized is either old, or just flat-out wrong. This goes for other popular versions of scientific theories as well. If evolution is &quot;mutate + natural selection + goto 1&quot;, then humans don&#x27;t evolve at all, and neither does any larger lifeform (and it&#x27;s still an open question if bacteria evolve or not). Hell, did you know the earth is the exact center of the universe ? No joke. Read a bit about Hubble&#x27;s discovery. The big bang is not actually the beginning of time, google inflation theory (and even inflation theory doesn&#x27;t model the beginning of time). Did you know that we lost ~98% (that&#x27;s a lower bound) of all mass in the universe ? We have zero clue where the rest of the universe is.
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