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Discussing PHP Frameworks: What, When, Why and Which?

27 pointsby vpalmost 16 years ago

8 comments

cesarealmost 16 years ago
If you're a decent enough programmer (web development is really easy compared to other fields) and you really want versatility, coding from scratch without using a framework is still the best decision.<p>This is not necessarily true for non web apps. I love Cocoa for instance and the MVC pattern is great for most kinds of apps. But not for the web, IMHO. It's overkill.<p>There are too many unnecessary abstractions from the protocols. The LAMP stack already gives you everything you need. For instance, PHP with mod_php already is a template processor. There's no need to build another one on top of it. Unless you don't know what you're doing, which is bad anyway.<p>I still prefer to parse the query string myself, to define my SQL queries (and most of the times a single query can replace 4-5 queries generated from a framework so apps are much faster) and to keep the data as clean and separated from the code as I can (data is always much more important than code and it's much better if it is code agnostic).<p>With web frameworks there's a lot of magic and it's faster to have a web app up and running. But it's a pain as soon as you want to modify the default behaviors. At least in my experience.
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Zakalmost 16 years ago
This article could omit the words "PHP" and "web" until it starts listing the specific frameworks and still be valid.<p>I'm inclined to agree with the posts opposing the use of a generic framework for a very scalable or complex application; they're usually not for that. What frameworks ARE for is small to medium applications with low budgets.<p>I do some contract work on projects with budgets in the $500-2000 range. For projects like that, frameworks like Rails or Django save a lot of time over writing it in scratch (even in Lisp, which I've done a couple times).
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apinsteinalmost 16 years ago
It's amazing how all-over the place these comments are on frameworks! Maybe it's because frameworks vary so much in their goals, weight and architecture.<p>There are really 2 kinds of performance; latency and throughput. Latency is how fast a single request is served; throughput how many requests you can serve concurrently. A good framework has a noticeable but negligible effect on latency (which also goes down all the time as the framework improves and hardware gets faster), yet also makes scalability <i>easier</i> by helping you abstract out the parts that make it scalable. If the framework you're using makes it hard to scale horizontally, that's a failure of <i>that</i> framework, not of the concept of frameworks.<p>I also disagree on the size of web sites that frameworks are useful on. I see a lot of comments like "ok for small/medium sites but bad for large sites". Why would frameworks suddenly get bad on a large site? For performance reasons? Architectural reasons? If either of these happen to you then you've simply chosen the wrong framework.<p>The argument that "an organizational system and set of useful libraries for programming web-related tasks" all of the sudden stop working once a site reaches a certain size is bogus. It might be true for a framework, but it won't be true for all of them.<p>I ended up writing a php framework (<a href="http://phocoa.com" rel="nofollow">http://phocoa.com</a>) in order to write <i>less</i> code. Frameworks give you leverage. They only box you in or cause scalability problems if they're architected poorly. I have really enjoyed the experience of building a framework as well as using it. I have been writing web apps, mobile apps, and desktop apps of all kinds for nearly 15 years and so I have had broad exposure to a variety of development stacks, from nothing to rich frameworks. Of course it's just my personal opinion, but in my experience a well-written framework is always better than doing it yourself, and a poorly-written one is almost always worse than doing it yourself.
billclericoalmost 16 years ago
We use Kohana, which is a lightweight php5 port of codeigniter. we like it a lot
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jacquesmalmost 16 years ago
the list he gives is very very short, here is a longer one:<p><a href="http://www.phpframeworks.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.phpframeworks.com/</a>
asnyderalmost 16 years ago
There's also NOLOH (<a href="http://www.noloh.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.noloh.com</a>), which allows you to create sophisticated web sites and web applications easily and intuitively in a single development language.<p>Disclaimer: I'm a co-founder of NOLOH.
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metachrisalmost 16 years ago
A small mistake: this site is writing "Codelgniter" (with L) instead of "CodeIgniter" (with I).
garnet7almost 16 years ago
No drupal?