TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Nootropics Survey Results And Analysis

121 pointsby Nogwaterover 11 years ago

19 comments

Xcelerateover 11 years ago
What I find interesting is the fact that modafinil and caffeine ranked almost the same. I&#x27;ve always thought it would be interesting to try modafinil because of the widely claimed cognitive benefits and how it has less drawbacks than caffeine, but if it ranks essentially the same as caffeine, there&#x27;s really no point to trying it that I can see. Caffeine doesn&#x27;t really do <i>that</i> much to be honest. It seems as though none of these really have any profound effects on mental capability.
评论 #7249139 未加载
评论 #7249202 未加载
评论 #7253551 未加载
评论 #7251220 未加载
评论 #7249743 未加载
评论 #7249229 未加载
评论 #7251304 未加载
fatmanover 11 years ago
What about Nicotine? Back in college and for a few years afterward, I used to put in a big fat dip (or chew) for all&#x2F;late-nighters to help me buckle down, focus, and stay alert. I stopped for all the standard health reasons, but I find that caffeine is only about 2&#x2F;3 as good.
评论 #7249131 未加载
评论 #7249086 未加载
JosephRedfernover 11 years ago
Gwern has written a lot on the subject of Nootropics: <a href="http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gwern.net&#x2F;Nootropics</a>
评论 #7248756 未加载
oziover 11 years ago
I think a better way to deal with the placebo affect is to only look at accounts where usage is greater than ninety days. As my psychopharmacologist put it, &quot;you can cure just about anything for four weeks with a sugar pill.&quot;
Havocover 11 years ago
Interesting idea. Some pretty wild comments in the XLS file too. e.g.<p>&gt;In a tiny blind self trial I could easily tell this from placebo<p>&gt;I&#x27;ve forgotten what doses I tried.<p>&gt;Long lasting panic attack<p>&gt;Most vile substance I have tasted<p>This guy wins though:<p>&gt;1.5 tsp brewed grounds, rectally [caffeine]
评论 #7249464 未加载
proggy123over 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve been taking modafinil for a while now (over a year). I initially started taking it to help with a massive workload at my job. I was a long-time software engineer at Google at the time. I was utterly burned out and couldn&#x27;t retain my focus for more than 10-15 minutes- definitely not enough when you&#x27;re writing c++ code and need to retain a huge amount of state in your head (header file definitions, pointer ownership, etc. etc.). But i wasn&#x27;t in a situation where i could immediately take time off or change jobs&#x2F;groups. So i started taking Modafinil to see if it would help me concentrate and get things done.<p>The immediate benefit and the thing that i still love it for today is how focused it makes me. As a programmer, most of my day is just getting things typed out. Pure creative thinking is maybe 1 hour a day at best. Without modafinil, if people came and interrupted me, i would get distracted, surf the web and it could easily take me upto an hour to get my head back in the code (especially since i hated what i was doing). With Modafinil, i would just retain stuff and be able to get back to work immediately. I&#x27;m in my mid-30s. Even on a good day, without Modafinil, i could stay in flow for maybe an hour or so before i would get distracted and lose focus. On Modafinil, 3 hours is average, 4 hours happens sometimes.<p>You know when you&#x27;re fixing bugs in a big codebase and for each bug you kind of have to load up state in your head and think -oh yeah i need to change x,y,z here and a,b,c there and these tests 1,2,3 have to change and i should probably make sure foo and bar are still working. Well with modafinil i was able to think of that and keep all of it in my head for the 2-3 hours it would take me to type out a fix. Or you&#x27;re reading a few bug reports and you are working on fixing one - you look at the file you&#x27;re in and realize that while you&#x27;re working in that file you could fix 2 or 3 other things or you could do a refactor - and you just do it without losing state in your head of where you are in the original bug. Modafinil let me do that- it was totally like a ram upgrade. (Or really like i wasn&#x27;t burned out or was 25 again or something).<p>So yeah my short-term recall also went up. Another example - at google we had lots of command line tools each with tons of options. It used to be a real mental effort for me to recall the 8-10 options i would have to pass on the command-line along with gigantic path and filenames to get something simple done. This isn&#x27;t uncommon- some of the most popular internal webpages are commandline option references for the really common tools. And it was a huge distraction - to have to drop what you&#x27;re doing to have to go to some webpage, scroll around or click find until you found some poorly documented option that maybe did what you wanted etc. With Modafinil, that was all just in my head for the whole day - enough so that at the end of the day i could make up shell scripts for the useful stuff, but during the day i could work really fast because i wasn&#x27;t looking stuff up all the time.<p>So yeah it did great things for me. But the bad news- i tried taking it every day - after a week, paranoia set in and mood swings. I would get extremely defensive about simple comments in code reviews. Typically i would take 200mg only in the morning so i could sleep at night- but if my schedule was bad and i went more than 3-4 days without sleep i would start having persistent hallucinations that lasted 10-15 seconds - not just corner of the eye stuff but talking to people who weren&#x27;t there.<p>Nowadays, i take it at most 100 mg at a time a maximum of twice a week. I really enjoy programming and i want to think i&#x27;m good at it so taking Modafinil felt a little like cheating with steroids or something. My current job is much easier than Google and I&#x27;ve been able to replace most of the positive effects of Moda by doing a ton more planning - e.g. i help my short term memory by writing copious comments, keeping a detailed log of exactly what i&#x27;m doing in org-mode, exercising good email discipline, writing code much more defensively so i don&#x27;t actually keep a lot of state in my head etc. etc. I meditate every day even for 5 minutes just in case that will help with focus. A lot of this works really well. But if the shit hits the fan at work and I&#x27;m debugging blind in a bunch of crappy code i&#x27;ve never seen before, or my fragile ego requires I be the guy who is just faster than others and gets stuff done, that&#x27;s when i still reach for Modafinil.
评论 #7250898 未加载
pakitanover 11 years ago
I&#x27;m quite surprised to see caffeine ranked so close to modafinil. I&#x27;ve never used modafinil but from what I&#x27;ve read, for some people it&#x27;s almost a wonder-drug. Caffeine gets me &quot;high&quot; but if anything, it can even be counter-productive at times. I wouldn&#x27;t rate it anywhere near life-changing.
评论 #7249024 未加载
评论 #7248983 未加载
_deliriumover 11 years ago
The definition of nootropics used here excludes them (too many adverse health effects), but I wonder how the drugs on this list compare to e.g. amphetamines in terms of pro-productivity effects.
评论 #7249644 未加载
评论 #7249171 未加载
评论 #7249288 未加载
mistercowover 11 years ago
&gt;One of the nootropics measured, choline bitartrate, has carefully regulated ability to cross the blood-brain barrier beyond a certain level, and so it would be surprising if it had direct and immediate cognitive effects.<p>This isn&#x27;t quite right. This is true of choline bitartrate itself, but IIRC it is fairly quickly metabolized into other forms of choline that can cross the BBB.<p>I would say it&#x27;s pretty likely that increasing choline intake would have a significant effect on cognition. Humans have been consuming large amounts of fish for much of our evolutionary history, compared to today&#x27;s typical diet. Given the way choline is used by our brains, and the relative plethora we had available when our brains were evolving, it&#x27;s hard to believe that we get as much as we can use in a modern diet.
评论 #7249437 未加载
computerover 11 years ago
I have a fair bit of experience with modafinil&#x2F;adronafinil, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. I&#x27;m not recommending trying them without docter&#x27;s prescription, of course.<p>It helped me greatly to stay up longer, to sleep less, and to concentrate better. However, those effects get much weaker over time: the sleep effects for me were less clear after 1-2 months, the concentration after weeks. Side effects can be nasty though, including limited appetite and gastrointestinal discomfort.<p>For the rest of the list: I&#x27;ve also tried various -racetam&#x27;s, and they did nothing for me. Creatine, vitamin D don&#x27;t have nootropic effects for me (but I still take them for other reasons). Caffeine is meh. Haven&#x27;t tried the rest of the list.
评论 #7249028 未加载
评论 #7249030 未加载
drakaalover 11 years ago
I think you have to have certain conditions for nootropics to really do anything.<p>I take Aniracetam and it makes a big difference in my life. I take a LOT less than most people, and the thing I notice is that I don&#x27;t have songs stuck in my head.<p>This may seem like a weird condition to be trying to get rid of but it makes a huge difference in my life and my concentration. There may be other effects, and some fuzzy metrics we could test for like how well I do at Baby Animal Match, or how fast I can do a Sudoku, but I can &quot;observe&quot; this one in my day to day life.<p>I talk about my experience here:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcHkTuMlqys" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=IcHkTuMlqys</a>
评论 #7249487 未加载
评论 #7249679 未加载
joe_computerover 11 years ago
Gwern also has a detailed personal examination of Nootropics.[0]<p>0: <a href="http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gwern.net&#x2F;Nootropics</a>
aestraover 11 years ago
Just to let everyone know, a very very rare but very serious side effect of modafinil is Stevens–Johnson syndrome and other potential life threating skin conditions.<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens%E2%80%93Johnson_syndrome" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Stevens%E2%80%93Johnson_syndrom...</a><p>I am not trying to discourage use.
twobeardover 11 years ago
What makes people believe that their brains are not good enough just as they are? If you take nootropics you&#x27;re messing with the most precious mechanism of your body. Are there any studies at all about the effects of long-term use on perfecly healthy young people?
dominotwover 11 years ago
I used truBrain (Piracetam) religiously for a 1 month and felt zero effects whatsoever.
rdlover 11 years ago
I wish they&#x27;d included amphetamines (both ADHD medications like adderall&#x2F;amphetamine and more serious things like desoxyn&#x2F;methamphetamine), for comparison.
tripperover 11 years ago
&quot;nootropics are substances which purportedly improve mental functioning with relatively few side effects when used responsibility.&quot; hello: LSD?
tokenadultover 11 years ago
Okay, I have read the fine blog post (which took a while to load). The article leads off by defining nootropics as &quot;substances which purportedly improve mental functioning with relatively few side effects when used responsibility.&quot;<p>The blog post author mentions a few small-n, limited duration studies, and then describes his voluntary-response survey methodology:<p>&quot;I asked people in the two largest online nootropics communities (that I know of), Reddit’s r&#x2F;nootropics and Longecity’s Brain Health forum, to take a survey describing their use of 31 different substances. I got 162 responses.&quot;<p>&quot;Respondents were asked to rate their subjective experiences of different nootropics on a scale of zero (completely useless, did nothing) to ten (life-changing). Comments on Reddit suggest several people misunderstood the scale, but not much I can do about that at this point.&quot;<p>So all the data here are voluntary-response data, with the known problem of response bias[1] and other defects about which I have an entire FAQ[2] I post on HN from time to time. Worse than that, all the data are self-report data,[3] which also have plenty of problems, even when gathered in a comprehensive survey with a representative sample of the general population, because of the risks of incorrect self-reports unless checked by other data sources that are objective.[4]<p>The blog post author then gives a lengthy description, with pretty colored charts, of his hand-waving statistical analysis of these dubious voluntary reponse, self-report data. It would not be wise (that is, it would not be a sign of improved mental functioning) to take these conclusions seriously as a description of how nootropics work, or indeed if they work at all. The author would do well to study fundamental principles of statistics by reading the online articles &quot;Advice to Mathematics Teachers on Evaluating Introductory Statistics Textbooks&quot;[5] and &quot;The Introductory Statistics Course: A Ptolemaic Curriculum?&quot;[6] to wrap his mind around how strictly necessary it is to have a valid data-gathering plan before engaging in any statistical manipulation of the data. Garbage in, garbage out. More background on experiment design to think about while evaluating the blog post kindly submitted here can be found in the essay &quot;Warning Signs in Experimental Design and Interpretation&quot;[7] by Peter Norvig, LISP hacker and director of research at Google, on how to interpret scientific research.<p>What might big-time convince me to try out a nootropic substance would be an objective demonstration that someone with typical abilities (say, someone who goes into online discussion with a known propensity to believe what&#x27;s on Reddit without checking it) can become a person with thoughtful insight (say, someone like Peter Norvig) at adult age simply by ingesting the nootropic. On my part, I like to improve mental functioning with relatively few side effects as much as anybody here, and one way I attempt to do that in middle age is by reading thoughtful articles by careful scholars and then discussing those among the learned participants on Hacker News. I&#x27;d appreciate comments from any of you about how one could know, objectively and verifiably, that a nootropic substance really does people good (even if they don&#x27;t feel that themselves). I especially invite comments from participants here who have a professional understanding of statistical studies in clinical trials of new medicines.<p>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Response_bias" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Response_bias</a><p>[2] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2322237" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=2322237</a><p>[3] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Self-report_study</a><p>[4] <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15528061" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;15528061</a><p><a href="http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/barker/supp/excerpt.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wiley.com&#x2F;legacy&#x2F;wileychi&#x2F;barker&#x2F;supp&#x2F;excerpt.pdf</a><p>[5] <a href="http://statland.org/MyPapers/MAAFIXED.PDF" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;statland.org&#x2F;MyPapers&#x2F;MAAFIXED.PDF</a><p>[6] <a href="http://escholarship.org/uc/item/6hb3k0nz" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;escholarship.org&#x2F;uc&#x2F;item&#x2F;6hb3k0nz</a><p>[7] <a href="http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;norvig.com&#x2F;experiment-design.html</a>
评论 #7249728 未加载
评论 #7249662 未加载
评论 #7249795 未加载
评论 #7249898 未加载
评论 #7250365 未加载
评论 #7249792 未加载
评论 #7249689 未加载
评论 #7249671 未加载
GrahamsNumberover 11 years ago
What kind&#x2F;brand of modafinil? The indian-online-pharmacy deal doesn&#x27;t seem too trustworthy to me