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This Man's $600K Facebook Disaster Is a Warning For All Small Businesses

248 pointsby warrenmarabout 11 years ago

33 comments

Silhouetteabout 11 years ago
It amazes me that Facebook don&#x27;t get sued more often, if our experience with their ad management is at all representative. The UI is terrible, and plenty of the statistics it shows appear to be broken in unfathomable ways.<p>Estimated audience sizes? Nonsense.<p>Suggested ranges for bids? Sometimes change by almost an order of magnitude between submitting the ad details and checking the dashboard a few minutes later.<p>Preview your ad as viewers will actually see it to make sure you&#x27;ve got the image size right? ::hilarious laughter::<p>Figures for click-through rates? I don&#x27;t know why you&#x27;d only want to pay for actual clicks to your site and not other things like people clicking like on your ad or your page. After all, someone liking an ad that will be gone tomorrow is surely worth as much to you as someone actually visiting your site.<p>What times will your ad run? We&#x27;ll assume you&#x27;re in the US even though you explicitly told us you&#x27;re in the UK. And then we&#x27;ll also price everything in dollars, so you pay a conversion fee on every bill. And no, you can&#x27;t change this once your account is set up.<p>Just set it up the same way as last time, we were satisfied with that? Sorry, the system has changed again and you have to start over.<p>Maybe we could use a third party ad manager to try to overcome some of these difficulties? Sure, but they&#x27;re all going to work a bit differently, and the options they present won&#x27;t match what you see on Facebook&#x27;s own ad management pages.<p>All of this is based on various experiences as a small business advertiser, and in most of the cases I&#x27;m thinking of the real numbers still worked out favourable despite all the problems and the frustration of trying to get everything working so the campaigns went ahead. But if Facebook treats larger customers spending serious money the same way, it&#x27;s not hard at all to see why we hear stories like this from time to time and why legal action can result.
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tlrobinsonabout 11 years ago
Here&#x27;s a good (but long) video that goes in depth into why they believe this happens <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfHeWTKjag" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=oVfHeWTKjag</a><p>The theory is pay-for-likes click farms click everything they see, including legitimate &quot;like&quot; ads to avoid detection. This increases the number of fake profiles liking your page, which decreases the percentage of users liking your posts, which decreases the number of users posts are shown to (unless you also pay to promote your post...)
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x0054about 11 years ago
What I find interesting is that apparently YouTube can differentiate between fake and real views. But Facebook can not differentiate between fake and real likes. Difference, YouTube pays you, but you have to pay Facebook. Hmm...
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DivByZeroabout 11 years ago
Reading this story honestly I would summarize it like this: &quot;User don&#x27;t know anything about Facebook Ads. Decide to test them. Test with $400k in 4 days. Totally waste his money&quot;.<p>Facebook is not perfect ... and click fraud is a huge problem. This does not means that Fb Ads does not work or return a negative ROI. You simply need to know the medium you are advertising on and use it wisely.<p>Thanks god we live in 2014 ... we can track everything ... real things like sales, leads, subscriptions. WHY people keep advertising to go after vanity metrics such as Number of likes or clicks. Who cares about the clicks.<p>Part of them are fake? Sure! Facebook should do more? Sure! Can you still earn money tracking you Facebook Ads overall Cost per sale instead of the cpc? Damn sure!
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kevingaddabout 11 years ago
Other metrics reporting ~100-150k vs Facebook reporting 600k+ clicks seems well beyond the level of error that would be produced by not tracking things in the exact same way.<p>Coincidentally, FB metrics reporting 2-5x what the target site&#x27;s metrics show would be very easily explained by bots generating traffic to FB&#x27;s servers without actually redirecting over to the target site...
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mgkimsalabout 11 years ago
&quot;Clearly, the vast majority of businesses that use Facebook for marketing are pleased with the experience. Facebook&#x27;s growing revenues, up 63% last quarter, indicate it is only getting more successful at selling advertising, not less.&quot;<p>Clearly? Just because they&#x27;re getting better at selling doesn&#x27;t mean the people are actually pleased with the experience. And as this article points out, &quot;selling&quot; is the same as &quot;collecting payment&quot;.
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colinplamondonabout 11 years ago
One key here - eCPC dramatically ramps as a campaign goes on, given the same target demographic.<p>If he was targeting a demographic like women in SE Asia, 18-35, then his test campaign would have first seen cheap clicks. Facebook&#x27;s algorithms would find the cheapest users within that demographic, who are the least in demand by other advertisers, for whatever reason. CPC&#x27;s would be low right off the bat, with a $200-300&#x2F;day campaign.<p>Then, when he just suddenly increased to $100,000&#x2F;day, he would have absolutely tore through the cheap available impressions within a matter of minutes, leaving only the more expensive users, with much higher CPC&#x27;s.<p>As soon as the CPC skyrocketed, he should have pulled the plug on the campaign. But, it sounds like, there was a bad mix of both him being inexperienced with online advertising (needing training in their office) and FB sales reps encouraging him to let it ride.<p>If he had slowly increased budgets, from $300&#x2F;day to $500&#x2F;day to $1,000&#x2F;day, he probably would have started to see a spike in CPC as soon as he moved it up to $1,000&#x2F;day, and a vertical &quot;holy crap KILL THIS CAMPAIGN&quot; spike in CPC when he hit $1,500&#x2F;day - $2,000&#x2F;day.<p>It&#x27;s really hard to manage campaigns at that volume - and there&#x27;s entire teams of people needed to manage a campaign at the level of $100,000&#x2F;day.<p>This reminds me of those Groupon horror stories. The small businesses were wrong to not running the numbers on deals that would clearly absolutely destroy them. But, the sales people at Groupon were even more in the wrong by taking advantage of those small businesses to turn a quick profit.
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rrradicalabout 11 years ago
Seems odd that Facebook didn&#x27;t pursue the huge bill he wouldn&#x27;t pay. Is it too much to assume they wouldn&#x27;t want the details to come out in court?
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auctiontheoryabout 11 years ago
What doesn&#x27;t ring true about this article is that the advertiser would spend $100K&#x2F;day without building up to it with a whole lot of testing first.<p>Facebook may have declined requests for comment, but we are still only getting one side of the story, and I cannot completely believe this one side. There&#x27;s more to it.
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ypodeswaabout 11 years ago
Why the hell would you ramp from virtually zero spend on FB to spending $100K&#x2F;day, especially if you&#x27;re a &quot;small business&quot;? Quite frankly, this guy seems like a bit of an idiot - ramp slowly! That is an absolutely insane budget for FB ads.
im3w1labout 11 years ago
Summary: Man runs online magazines, revenue from ads. Advertises himself on facebook, hopes to make more ad revenue than he has to pay. Spends $100k&#x2F;day for a few days. Notice that google analytics says he hasn&#x27;t got as many hits as facebook says they referred. He stopped the campaign. Disputed bill.
marescaabout 11 years ago
After seeing a few stories like this, it seems facebook advertising makes sense for one thing: buying likes. When one of us sees a site with 11.2K likes, we would know better. But the average user might not.<p>Fake it until you make it.
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callmeedabout 11 years ago
The click discrepancy is what always has bugged me about Facebook ads (well, aside from the poor CTR). I&#x27;ve tried small FB ad campaigns since they&#x27;ve had the service and they ALWAYS report significantly higher clicks than what GA reports as coming from Facebook.
gregpillingabout 11 years ago
From the article &quot;Facebook works hard to get rid of fake accounts. In its annual report, the company said that only about 0.4% - 1.2% of all active users are abusive accounts that create fake likes.&quot;<p>I find it incredibly hard to believe that only 1.2% of FB accounts are creating fake likes. Go to Fiverr.com and get 5,000 likes for $5.
therobot24about 11 years ago
this type of story seems to appear over and over again, i don&#x27;t know much about facebook advertising, but with so many stories of fake account clicks i would expect facebook to comment at least once on the subject
snorkelabout 11 years ago
They should fire their own media buyer rather than blame Facebook. When buying any type of advertising you first have to buy a small campaign and measure the ROI (ie. new customers gained, not likes and followers and other social metrics bullshit, but customers) from that campaign before investing more in that same channel. They threw big money at a bad channel without testing it, that&#x27;s their fault.<p>If their goal was just to buy likes and followers then that&#x27;s just twice as idiotic: the goal should always be to gain customers. That&#x27;s the only ROI metric you should be looking at. So if you buy small test campaign on Facebook and you didn&#x27;t gain any customers then don&#x27;t spend any more money on Facebook. It&#x27;s that simple.
poopsintubabout 11 years ago
It sounds like the all too common case of a business owner who has no idea what they&#x27;re doing.
yesplorerabout 11 years ago
For starters, if you really have to go to Facebook&#x27;s office to be trained on how to spend money on their ad system, I&#x27;m not sure you are knowledgeable enough to be spending $100,000 a day on those ads. I doubt Facebook was going to teach you how to optimize your campaign in order to spend less money than you would.<p>As stories like these continue to pop up, it is important that FB take action to protect their brand. How about simply refine the target audience for ads? for instance, in order for a user to be served ad; you must have a minimum number of friends, say 50, you must have a minimum number of say 3 pictures of yourself, you must have a reasonable level of activity on the site for over the last X period whether 3, 4 or 5 month period.<p>A combination of such measures in some ways will clearly weed out most of the fake account and honestly even if there is a genuine account who doesn&#x27;t match any of these criteria, then it&#x27;s obvious they aren&#x27;t even engaged on the site, so why ruin the experience further for them with ads?<p>Ultimately, FB&#x27;s objective is to please advertisers and the natural flow is that they will end up pleasing shareholders. But focusing of the hard accounting numbers in the short term at the expense of goodwill of the marketers paying your bills is simply suicide. Once a significant number of advertisers distrust the platform and stop spending on it, its&#x27; 1.2 billion users will mean nothing and that is where the shareholders will start dumping them for the next company.
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rokhayakebeabout 11 years ago
I do not have data to back this up, from my observation, most people do not know what is or is not an advertisement unless it is flashing. Even then, there is a not-negligible percentage that does not know. People just click to find out what things are, not because they are interested in the message. Perhaps a simple way would be to ensure that user does not come back to the page within x seconds, otherwise you should not pay.
reppicabout 11 years ago
Reading that last sentence gave me an idea for a SaaS company that (for a small monthly fee) marks and lets you purge suspicious fans of your page. Too bad it&#x27;s impossible to get a list of your page&#x27;s fans: <a href="https://developers.facebook.com/x/bugs/147185208750426/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.facebook.com&#x2F;x&#x2F;bugs&#x2F;147185208750426&#x2F;</a>
al2o3crabout 11 years ago
Terrible title. Better one: &quot;This Man&#x27;s $600k FB Disaster Is a Warning For All Morons Who Try Arbitraging Ad Networks&quot;
sidcoolabout 11 years ago
The article does mention, rather inconspicuously, that most of the advertisers seem happy with Facebook. I am no fan of facebook or their advertising model, but to me the title seems a bit editorialized.
hrjetabout 11 years ago
There could be three explanations for fake FB likes:<p>1. As mentioned in the story, click farms trying to cover their tracks by clicking FB ads.<p>2. Competitors creating fake profiles and fake likes. It seems like a cheap way to drain out the advertisers budget.<p>3. FB itself creating the fake accounts &#x2F; likes. I know it is implausible, but there is a profit motive, so I guess the possibility should be considered.
drakaalabout 11 years ago
Even if Facebook was a scam... You don&#x27;t put $600k in before you know what you get out of every dollar you put in.<p>This is why you outsource your SEO&#x2F;SEM&#x2F; Social Marketing. (To someone reputable who is results driven&#x2F;incentivized )<p>He needed someone to say, &quot;hey look you put $5 in you got 10 cents out. Time to move on&quot; before he got to $600k in spend.
duskwuffabout 11 years ago
There&#x27;s one part of this I still don&#x27;t get, though. Where&#x27;s the motive in running Facebook &quot;like&quot; farms?
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mcfunleyabout 11 years ago
&gt; &quot;At one point, data from Facebook indicated his ads had delivered 606,000 clicks, but the site itself registered only 160,000 incoming clicks&quot;<p>My initial reaction is that this guy is confusing &quot;clicks&quot; with &quot;visits&quot; or possibly &quot;unique visitors.&quot; Counting things is hard.
richardwabout 11 years ago
Facebook needs to charge different click prices depending on the quality of the profile. clicks from 10-friend profiles that are only a year old and like every page they hit, aren&#x27;t as valuable as clicks from profiles that are more organic and have been around for years.
TallboyOneabout 11 years ago
Only an idiot would spend $600k in a few days without testing. That&#x27;s just painful to read.
genofonabout 11 years ago
As highlighted before in the top topic on reddit of the past weeks (VIDEO) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVfHeWTKjag" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=oVfHeWTKjag</a>
jokoonabout 11 years ago
I hope this gets traction, I really do want the facebook stock to drop.
raphaeljabout 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand why someone would put resources to make fake likes&#x2F;clicks.<p>What&#x27;s the deal ? A concurrent who wants to discredit Facebook&#x27; Ad service ?
cwaniakabout 11 years ago
Well, if you your whole business model depends on &quot;Facebook likes&quot; 100%, you are asking for it…
flowernteaabout 11 years ago
fake