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John Carmack's former employer claims he stole tech for Oculus VR when he left

144 pointsby pytrinabout 11 years ago

19 comments

chollida1about 11 years ago
&gt; In August 2012, ZeniMax began seeking compensation for the intellectual property, according to people familiar with the discussions. Negotiations continued on and off for nearly six months, with Oculus eventually offering ZeniMax a small equity stake, but no deal was reached, the people said. This past summer, Mr. Carmack joined Oculus, and earlier this year, five ZeniMax employees joined Oculus, the people said. In February, ZeniMax asked Mr. Carmack to disclose all of the virtual-reality inventions he developed while working at ZeniMax, one of the people said.<p>it sounds to me like they are saying that John Carmack did VR work for Oculus while still at Id and then took his tech demo with him when he left Id&#x2F;ZeniMax.<p>This seems like the kind of thing John had done in the past and no one cared when they were still Id software. Once they sold themselves, it seems like the parent company no longer considers this type of activity to be ok.<p>or put another way, it sounds like shades of Sergey Aleynikov (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sergey_Aleynikov</a>), where a programmer does something he always does but once he leaves the company the company decides that they weren&#x27;t cool with it after all.
pachydermicabout 11 years ago
Ugh, Zenimax legal is the worst. I mean, maybe they have a claim - Carmack was probably working on Oculus stuff while employed there - but I find the idea that businessmen own everything a programmer works on just because he&#x27;s an employee abhorrent.<p>Remember the whole Scrolls debacle? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrolls_%28video_game%29#Bethesda_lawsuit" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Scrolls_%28video_game%29#Bethes...</a> Apparently that was Bethesda Softworks, not Zenimax... but I wonder who was really behind it.
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NDizzleabout 11 years ago
Smart people should stop leveraging the amount of information in their brain. That&#x27;s the property of some corporation! What was he thinking?!
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clavalleabout 11 years ago
&gt;The proprietary technology and know-how Mr. Carmack developed when he was a ZeniMax employee, and used by Oculus, are owned by ZeniMax.<p>John Carmack&#x27;s &#x27;know-how&#x27; is owned by ZeniMax? Absurd.
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ensmotkoabout 11 years ago
Carmack&#x27;s response: &quot;No work I have ever done has been patented. Zenimax owns the code that I wrote, but they don&#x27;t own VR.&quot; [0]<p>[0] <a href="https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/461918500307472384" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;id_aa_carmack&#x2F;status&#x2F;461918500307472384</a>
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cromwellianabout 11 years ago
This is what happens when you sell your company to lawyers (CEO&#x2F;founder of Zenimax)
NoPieceabout 11 years ago
When you are acquired for $2 billion, know that there will be hundreds of lawyers looking to find a way to sue you and get some of that Facebook stock.
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wdewindabout 11 years ago
&gt; To be completely clear, Zenimax is claiming that John Carmack took software with him to Oculus VR that he developed while still an employee at id Software (owned by Zenimax).<p>But:<p>&gt; ZeniMax provided necessary VR technology and other valuable assistance to Palmer Luckey and other Oculus employees in 2012 and 2013 to make the Oculus Rift a viable VR product, superior to other VR market offerings.<p>My guess: it sounds like John Carmack began an informal relationship with Luckey and Oculus, and possibly wrote some code for or advised them while he was still at iD. If so, Zenimax is likely legally in the right. Yikes.
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aw3c2about 11 years ago
Actual source is <a href="http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303948104579534013624548846" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;online.wsj.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;SB1000142405270230394810...</a> which sadly is behind a paywall. So here is a Google Cache <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303948104579534013624548846" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;webcache.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:http:&#x2F;&#x2F;...</a> or as more permanent archive <a href="http://archive.today/fz5Ge" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.today&#x2F;fz5Ge</a>
rageearabout 11 years ago
I guess this means that ZeniMax owns all the code that Carmack wrote for Armadillo Aerospace, too.<p>Oh right, AA isn&#x27;t worth $2B.
Dirlewangerabout 11 years ago
Hmm...sounds quite hairy, and quite likely that Carmack did, to some extent, leverage existing proprietary id software to assist in developing Rift&#x27;s SDK or whatever before he left. I mean, who wouldn&#x27;t? But at the same time, you&#x27;d think someone like Carmack would be aware of the murkiness of using company IP to make something...and then taking that something to another company.
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drawkboxabout 11 years ago
A gaming giant going against a gaming legend, not sure if Zenimax thought this one through. Also doesn&#x27;t Carmack still own a portion of id software and thus Zenimax? Carmack tried to get them to pursue VR but they didn&#x27;t want to. Sounds like a bratty response to a bad decision.
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snorkelabout 11 years ago
For those who bemoaned the Facebook acquisition, now you can be reassured that papa Facebook has deep enough pockets to make the patent troll go away.
callesggabout 11 years ago
Do they&#x2F;companies in general have no notion of how bad stuff like this makes them look.<p>Either they should fire the people handling PR or talk to them before doing dumb shit.
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madroxabout 11 years ago
Honestly, the details in something like this don&#x27;t matter. ZeniMax is betting on Oculus not wanting a spurious legal claim holding up the closing of the Facebook deal. Oculus leaders don&#x27;t really care, because they just want their big payday. Oculus will settle, ZeniMax will get some money, and we&#x27;ll all move on.
chazuabout 11 years ago
This reminds me of _Count Zero_. The whole plot about a scientist leaving one corporate nation-state to work for another, and having to be extracted by a team of commandos so his old bosses don&#x27;t kill him.
nemofabout 11 years ago
so here&#x27;s the agreement Oculus allegedly broke: <a href="http://recode.net/2014/05/01/heres-the-agreement-oculus-allegedly-broke-according-to-zenimax/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;recode.net&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;01&#x2F;heres-the-agreement-oculus-alle...</a>
mcvabout 11 years ago
I can certainly understand why Carmack left. Doesn&#x27;t sound like his kind of company.
grayclhnabout 11 years ago
Teenager me would have had no way to process this. Adult me&#x27;s struggling too.