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Why Van Halen's tour contract had a "no brown M&M's" clause

246 pointsby magsafeabout 11 years ago

26 comments

Monkeygetabout 11 years ago
It reminds me of the orange juice test. You organize an annual convention for hundreds of people.<p>You tell the banquet manager of the hotel you are considering that the morning breakfast must include a large glass of freshly squeezed orange juice for everyone of the attendees. It must be squeezed no more than two hours before the breakfast.<p>It is not possible to do so. Squeezing that much orange in much a short amount of time would be prohibitively expensive.<p>If the manager says yes he is either lying or incompetent and you&#x27;d better find someone else who will tell you it&#x27;s not possible.
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JonnieCacheabout 11 years ago
This seems like a good opportunity to post RMS&#x27; rider again:<p><a href="https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;secure.mysociety.org&#x2F;admin&#x2F;lists&#x2F;pipermail&#x2F;developer...</a><p>Fabulous stuff. I wonder how often he has&#x2F;gets to hang out with random parrots since this document became widely known. In my mind he is surrounded constantly by sandal-wearing acolytes wielding exotic birds of every variety.
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emiliobumacharabout 11 years ago
Engineer&#x27;s version: Write-only memory<p>&quot; Out of frustration with the long and seemingly useless chain of approvals required of component specifications during which no actual checking seemed to occur, an engineer at Signetics once created a specification for a write-only memory and included it with a bunch of other specifications to be approved. This inclusion came to the attention of Signetics management only when regular customers started calling and asking for pricing information. Signetics published a corrected edition of the data book and requested the return of the &#x27;erroneous&#x27; literature.&quot;
baneabout 11 years ago
One of the interesting things about tech work is that it&#x27;s almost all &quot;brown M&amp;Ms&quot;. It&#x27;s amazing how important attention to detail is in this field and how quickly something will simply not work if the details aren&#x27;t sweated.<p>We see it time and again when things go into production where the &quot;brown M&amp;Ms&quot; haven&#x27;t been looked into and we end up with things like enterprise class websites that cost millions of dollars to produce crumbling under the load of a dozen simultaneous users.
Nanzikambeabout 11 years ago
A contract &quot;poison pill&quot; or litmus test. Pretty ingenious, is that sort of thing common practice in contracts?
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gnymanabout 11 years ago
There are quite a few applications that do something similar, they leave a &quot;disabled=1&quot; or similar in the config to make sure people look at the config before trying to run the software. I remember the eggdrop IRC bot doing it (<a href="http://cvs.eggheads.org/viewvc/eggdrop1.6/eggdrop.conf?view=co" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cvs.eggheads.org&#x2F;viewvc&#x2F;eggdrop1.6&#x2F;eggdrop.conf?view=...</a> , look for the lines starting with die) this and I&#x27;m sure there are more.
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exDM69about 11 years ago
I recall reading that the &quot;no brown M&amp;M&#x27;s&quot; clause was added after a near-fatal accident on stage where a member of the Van Halen band got electrocuted because of bad wiring on the stage.
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spingsprongabout 11 years ago
An episode of the TRC podcast covered this, and came to a different conclusion than snopes.<p><a href="http://www.trcpodcast.com/trc-219-can-men-and-women-be-friends-foods-with-animals-van-halen-mms/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.trcpodcast.com&#x2F;trc-219-can-men-and-women-be-frien...</a>
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JunkDNAabout 11 years ago
See previous HN discussion (360 points, 1,744 days ago) here: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=743860" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=743860</a>
YesThatTom2about 11 years ago
Once I buried a crazy request in a list of &quot;you need to agree on these points or the book won&#x27;t make the deadline&quot; email to my publisher. My editor flat out agreed to them all.<p>That&#x27;s how I knew she was lying about having read them and I had to escalate to the production editor.<p>It saved the book.
dvanduzerabout 11 years ago
You can listen to Ira Glass and John Flansburgh of They Might Be Giants talk about it in the prologue: <a href="http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/386/fine-print?act=0" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thisamericanlife.org&#x2F;radio-archives&#x2F;episode&#x2F;386&#x2F;f...</a><p>&quot;there&#x27;s 30 people the promoter&#x27;s going to hire on our behalf ... but in only half of them did we require that they be sober&quot;
rhizomeabout 11 years ago
Contrary to Snopes&#x27; last-updated, this is at least 10 years old.<p>Summary&#x2F;spoiler: It was to ensure the contract was read thoroughly.
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Roonerelliabout 11 years ago
I’ve heard similar stories regarding developers and IT Services<p>Where the devs weren’t allowed access to the Production environment so would have to leave written instructions on how to deploy the software they’ve written. And convinced that IT Services weren’t reading their instructions they would write something really offensive in there and see if they complained<p>Possibly just a myth, but amusing all the same
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saurikabout 11 years ago
<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2839581" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=2839581</a>
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ctdonathabout 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve read thru a bunch of other nit-picky riders. Strikes me that an under-discussed factor is that these high-value stars (contracts running into the $millions) are under <i>extreme</i> pressure, which is severely aggravated by so much change on a daily&#x2F;hourly basis; something as &quot;trivial&quot; as wrong-temperature or brand drinks (I dislike Poland Spring water, and prefer Mt Dew in cans not bottles), uncomfortable seats, or even brown M&amp;Ms (hey, everyone has a pet peeve) can be an unnerving &quot;last straw&quot;. Having a few &quot;perfect&quot; arrangements everywhere gives them something to center on for mental stability.<p>ETA: I realize this is a tangent. Methinks it&#x27;s relevant.
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HERRbPUNKTabout 11 years ago
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwHO2HnwfnA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=YwHO2HnwfnA</a><p>Interview with Eddy Van Halen, telling the story first hand. :)
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harrybabout 11 years ago
Interesting lesson about getting confidence by adding bugs. This was mentioned at a recent tech talk about Java Mutation Testing and PIT <a href="http://pitest.org/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pitest.org&#x2F;</a> - video here <a href="http://vimeo.com/89083982" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;vimeo.com&#x2F;89083982</a>
salehenrahmanabout 11 years ago
I&#x27;m stealing this tactic when interviewing a QA guy, if I ever do end up looking to hire QA guys, that is.<p>Me: &quot;So here are a set of instructions are programmers were asked to follow. Can you see anything wrong&quot;<p>QA candidate: &quot;Why yes. They forgot to remove the brown M&amp;M&#x27;s&quot;<p>Me: &quot;You start tomorrow.&quot;
bttfabout 11 years ago
This reminds me of some IRCd configurations, in which the server will not function properly unless you&#x27;ve thoroughly read through the conf file and found the single commented line which disables the entire process.
yp_allabout 11 years ago
Maybe a more interesting question is whether they ever exercised their right to terminate for brown M&amp;M&#x27;s.<p>Is there any notion of material breach, major vs minor breach, etc. in &quot;tour contracts&quot;?
sgdreadabout 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve seen same kind of tests on one of the fire ranges. You have to read safety rules. One of the points was to put x mark on the 2nd page if you read that.
supergeek133about 11 years ago
Instantly thought of this: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_7kg5ZzDZo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=k_7kg5ZzDZo</a>
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quothaabout 11 years ago
You have to remember, it was the 80s!
circaabout 11 years ago
How is there no mention of Wayne&#x27;s World in these comments?
pjbrunetabout 11 years ago
I&#x27;m not a lawyer, but as I understand contract law, delivering something &quot;close enough&quot; is all that&#x27;s required to satisfy a contract. Let&#x27;s pretend everything&#x27;s perfect except for one brown M&amp;M. I&#x27;m sure a lawyer can explain it better, but if everything else is in order, I think Van Halen would have to perform their end of the deal.
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bjourneabout 11 years ago
Maybe a mathematician can explain whether this &quot;trick&quot; works or not? Intuitively, I can&#x27;t see that knowing whether the M&amp;M demand was filled makes it more probable that the other demands are filled.<p>Say you have a pile with five black or white marbles. You want them all to be black. So you check that the first marble in the pile is black (ie no brown m&amp;m:s). Is it now <i>more probable</i> that <i>the other four marbles</i> also are black?<p>Because you are just checking one specific marble instead of sampling a number of randomly chosen marbles (which of course would increase the probability), I don&#x27;t see how it can work.
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