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Always Hungry? Here’s Why

153 pointsby kozlovskyabout 11 years ago

27 comments

Udoabout 11 years ago
There seems to be a pervasive unwillingness to understand the nature of positive feedback cycles, and instead we&#x27;re just continually hearing &quot;fat because of intake&quot; and &quot;intake because of fat&quot; arguments that try to fall on an extreme interpretation of simplified causality.<p>This article belongs to the very few that actually do a job of describing a feedback cycle, but then it falls short and does the popular simplification thing.<p>Fat cells emit hormones that cause hunger, and they actually do require energy for upkeep. The body prioritizes not losing any of its substance, so most &quot;healthy&quot; adults will always at least eat the amount they need to not lose weight. On top of that come fatal breakages in the messaging system the body uses to control the flow of energy. Fat people are prone to insulin resistance, physical extension of their digestive system that leads to the urge for more throughput, and other mechanisms - all of which cause an almost insurmountable desire to eat a lot.<p>It&#x27;s an addiction that subverts two of our most powerful mental priorities: the reward&#x2F;pleasure system and the survival instinct. In most people there is not a lot that can be done to overcome what these two systems tell you. That&#x27;s why diets fail: my body is lying to me. It&#x27;s like getting two popup alert boxes every minute, one saying &quot;you are DYING! eat something&quot; and the other goes &quot;you&#x27;re unhappy, eat something, you deserve some happiness&quot;.
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rayinerabout 11 years ago
People who say &quot;just eat less&quot; aren&#x27;t thinking like engineers. Engineers don&#x27;t get to ignore the wrenches thrown into the works by reality. If seemingly simple advice fails for almost everyone, then the advice is flawed and someone thinking like an engineer has to figure out how to work around those flaws.<p>I don&#x27;t know if low-carb diets are the full solution, but I think they&#x27;re at least part of the solution. Avoiding carbs is a simple rule that let&#x27;s you avoid eating too many calories with relatively less effort than trying to stick to a low-calorie balanced diet. Its easy to blow through 200-300 calories of bagle without even a thought, not so much for an equivalent amount of bacon (6-7 slices).
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HarrietJonesabout 11 years ago
Saying that fat contains twice the calories as carbs ignores the plain fact that carbs contain a hell of a lot of calories.<p>This is the problem with modern eating. We don&#x27;t realise how many calories there are in a slice of bread or a bowl of pasta.<p>Low carb works because people can&#x27;t seem to understand that flour is 95% the energy density of sugar, and it&#x27;s easier for them to trick themselves into calorie restriction by pretending that carbs are metabolised in a weird fat making way than it is for them to understand that wheat contains a lot of calories.<p>Also - people don&#x27;t realise that after you&#x27;ve done all the calculations - eating an extra pound of fat will make you weigh roughly an extra pound.<p>Here&#x27;s my diet advice: If the thing you&#x27;re eating is used in nature as an energy store, then it&#x27;s probably packed with calories.<p>The article sets off alarm bells with me, because it places so much emphasis on slowing metabolisms at the beginning. As far as I&#x27;m aware, your metabolism doesn&#x27;t slow down until you&#x27;re close to starvation (all reserves used), and the reduction in energy output caused by the slowing metabolism is minor. Speed of metabolism seems to be something only people on the dodgy end of the weight loss spectrum believe in.
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falcolasabout 11 years ago
Caloric restriction does work, but from my experience, it&#x27;s hard, and requires conscious effort all day every day.<p>That&#x27;s why, until a year ago, it never worked for me. I would imagine that&#x27;s why it doesn&#x27;t work for most people as well.<p>Well, conscious effort, and a thoroughly ingrained habit to eat everything on my plate because &quot;starving children in Africa&quot;.
greggmanabout 11 years ago
Just a random &quot;obvious&quot; comment but..<p>I&#x27;ve lost some weight recently by cutting my intake. My inspiration was my sister who used to be 5&#x27;2&quot; and 260lbs but is now ~130lbs. She got her stomach stapled and for some number of months was on a 500 calorie a day diet. (I don&#x27;t recommend that)<p>Anyway, seeing that and reading things here on HN about how calorie restriction has an order of magnitude more effect than exercise (which I do) I decided to try to eat ~1500 calories a day for a while.<p><i></i>It&#x27;s surprisingly HARD because of how little food that is.<i></i><p>They way people eat in the USA, it&#x27;s crazy how large the portions are. I&#x27;m in Japan where the portions are smaller but, calories are labeled on most things and even with small portions it&#x27;s amazing to me just how little I can eat and stay under 2000 a day let alone 1500 a day.<p>A &quot;small&quot; Japanese convenience store style sandwich is 300 calories. Those are probably only 60% the size of the smallest sandwich I&#x27;d see in the USA. Pretty much any small Japanese pastry, donut, thing made with bread is 300-500 calories. Again those are at least 30% smaller than their USA counterparts.<p>Soda, Fruit juice, coffee with sugar, etc, all around 140 calories for 12oz.<p>Potato-chips or fries or a sugary snack? Forget about it!<p>The point is, it wasn&#x27;t until I actually tried seriously looking at my calorie intake that I realized how many calories I was consuming. A small lunch, a medium dinner and a snack and I&#x27;m over 2000 calories easily. There&#x27;s no way I could fit any kind of &quot;normal&quot; breakfast in that routine and still fit in 1500-2000 calories.<p>Anyway, I guess like I said that&#x27;s kind of obvious but for whatever reason it wasn&#x27;t to me until I actually started paying attention. As for being hungry all the time, yea, because of 48+ years of eating way too much my idea of what a meal should be or how much I should eat to feel like I&#x27;ve done more than just had a snack is seriously out of whack.
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kephraabout 11 years ago
All those theories ignore the epigentics part ob obesity.<p>One of the main factors are what did your mother eat, when she was before puberty, and what did you eat before puberty.<p>Children of immigrants are often fat, because their mothers came from a culture where food was scare but natural, and they now grow up in in a culture where food is cheap and contains lots of sugar. The epigentics now cause that they will store the sugar into fat, whenever available. Grand children of immigrants are often thin again. Because their parents already grown up in a culture where food was cheap.<p>So there are only a few things one could do:<p>1st - try to keep your children thin. Let them make sport, let them drive bicycle to school, and do not drive them by car. Avoid sugar, especially fructose.<p>2nd - its to late, once you left puberty. Only a hormone change could change weight. Women get a 2nd chance to get thin when pregnant or during menopause. But they normally get fatter.<p>3rd - So just try to live with your weight. Start a sport where weight is good, e.g. sailing. Every sailor is always searching for fat crew, as self loading ballast on the rail. Even if sailing does not feel like sport, you burn lots of calories by moving your body to balance the waves. You learn to move your fat fast, and to balance yourself, even with high weight. A few years sailing might only cause 10lbs of weight loss, but the health benefit is much bigger then just the weight loss. And the self esteem gains a lot, regardless if you win a race, or only sail recreational.
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komeabout 11 years ago
Obesity rates in Europe (2008): <a href="http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50326000/gif/_50326564_obesity_rates_464.gif" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.bbcimg.co.uk&#x2F;media&#x2F;images&#x2F;50326000&#x2F;gif&#x2F;_50326564...</a><p>Why Italians, that eat pasta (carbohydrates) almost every day are so thin? Goddammit.
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tpengabout 11 years ago
The stomach is not a good judge of whether you should be eating more or less food. For whatever reason, some individuals may be prone to overeating or undereating. If your natural eating tendencies have caused you to be over- or underweight, common sense says that you should stop listening to those natural urges.<p>The key to successful dieting is to transform eating from a biologically-mediated process into a cognitively-mediated process based on counting calories. Given this cognitive feedback, your stomach will actually adapt to a new calorie intake level, lessening hunger. Hunger can also be managed by eating more satiating foods and drinking water.<p>Caloric deficits (or surpluses) work like clockwork. The metabolic slowdown discussed in the article has marginal effects if any -- perhaps a couple hundred calories worth per day at most. A simple thought experiment shows us that the idea of a &quot;set point&quot; body weight is ludicrous: at starvation, of course, the body cannot possibly maintain weight.<p>The reasons why many people fail at dieting is that people underestimate the amount of effort&#x2F;pain required:<p><a href="http://www.cracked.com/article_18544_how-the-karate-kid-ruined-modern-world.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cracked.com&#x2F;article_18544_how-the-karate-kid-ruin...</a>
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Tychoabout 11 years ago
I have a theory that being overweight is mostly caused by lack of walking. Everyone seems to get heavier as they get older, and most people seem to be slim when they&#x27;re students. Regardless of how &#x27;healthy&#x27; their lifestyle is (ie. if they eat junk food, or go jogging).<p>So basically my theory is that when you&#x27;re a student, you&#x27;re probably walking a long way to get to university each day, and then when you&#x27;re there you spend a lot of time walking about campus. When you leave university and get a job, you get into a car and drive to work, and then sit at your desk most of the day. And then retreat to the family home for the evening, rather than walking about town to meet your friends. Most people are aware of their sedentariness, and put effort into diets and exercise regimes (which they never dreamt of when they were younger), but without the daily walking it&#x27;s an uphill struggle. So gradually over the years they put on the pounds, until virtually all of them have lost that slim figure.
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SixSigmaabout 11 years ago
&gt; Specifically, it’s the first law of thermodynamics<p>&gt; exert willpower and eat less<p>&gt; this advice doesn’t work<p>As we know round these parts, &quot;Ideas are useless without execution&quot;
ravabout 11 years ago
I was moderately <i>shocked and confused</i> at the pasta&#x2F;cake illustration midway in the article.
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findjashuaabout 11 years ago
Stephan Guyenet has written extensively on the issues with the insulin hypothesis: <a href="http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/01/insulin-and-obesity-another-nail-in.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wholehealthsource.blogspot.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;insulin-and-ob...</a><p>He has also written about how low carb diets work by reducing the variety and the reward factor of the diet (<a href="http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/08/carbohydrate-hypothesis-of-obesity.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wholehealthsource.blogspot.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;08&#x2F;carbohydrate-h...</a>)<p>some other counterarguments are: 1. Protein digestion also raises insulin, so why doesn&#x27;t a high protein diet result in weight gain? 2. There are plenty of cultures around the world whose diet is primarily starch based (eg. Kitavans). Why isn&#x27;t obesity prevalent in these cultures (<a href="http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/08/kitavans-wisdom-from-pacific-islands.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wholehealthsource.blogspot.com&#x2F;2008&#x2F;08&#x2F;kitavans-wisdo...</a>). 3. More recently, someone lost weight while eating only potatoes for 60 days (<a href="http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-potato-diet.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wholehealthsource.blogspot.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;12&#x2F;the-potato-die...</a>). It&#x27;d be interesting to see the effects of just eating nuts (high fat, low carb) for 60 days.<p>tldr: it&#x27;s not insulin that causes us to eat more than we need, it&#x27;s the high reward factor and low satiety of the diet. A simple diet comprised of foods with low reward factor and high satiety makes it very easy to stay within the caloric budget.
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charlieflowersabout 11 years ago
Lustig has his critics[1]. In fact, seems the mainstream <i>almost</i> thinks of him as a quack (almost). Myself, I can&#x27;t discern who&#x27;s right and wrong. I can see that a lot of people are overstating their level of certainty.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alanaragonblog.com&#x2F;2010&#x2F;01&#x2F;29&#x2F;the-bitter-truth-ab...</a>
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guyinblackshirtabout 11 years ago
I first read about insulin&#x27;s role in weight loss in Ferriss&#x27; book &quot;Four Hour body&quot;, and the results from his approach have been pretty impressive (tracked 3,500 people and 84% of them lost weight)<p><a href="http://fourhourworkweek.com/2013/01/22/is-the-4-hour-body-a-scam-tracking-3500-people-to-find-out/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;fourhourworkweek.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;01&#x2F;22&#x2F;is-the-4-hour-body-a-...</a>
moron4hireabout 11 years ago
One of the problems is that, when you are hungry, you are least likely to succeed at deciding to not overeat. Will power is a function of energy. It&#x27;s why it&#x27;s so easy for me to decide on things before bed, when I feel the most awake, and find it nearly impossible to pull through on them when I first wake, when I feel the most tired.
codeshamanabout 11 years ago
Calories and energy sources (carbs, proteins, fats) are a small part of the riddle. Besides calories our bodies need lots of micronutrients, amino-acids, enzymes,... - the quality of the food is paramount.<p>Our modern food is high in calories and low in nutrients, that&#x27;s mostly due to the &#x27;advances&#x27; in modern agriculture and the whole chain of food production and distribution.<p>Then there is the aspect of the mind. Look into the mind of any overweight or obese person and you&#x27;ll find a bucket of psychological disorders, most of them caused by poor nutrition and most of them being the reason for the person &#x27;fixing&#x27; them with more food or alcohol or drugs.<p>Few people ever learn to listen to their bodies and when their bodies scream &#x27;I need nutrients&#x27;, the mind hears &#x27;I am hungry&#x27; and goes and procures more empty calories. That&#x27;s the cycle which leads to weight gain and obesity and all the related health problems.
ninkendoabout 11 years ago
This article goes to a lot of effort to make calorie-counting diets seem futile due to human nature, and there&#x27;s certainly some truth to it. But I still think &quot;pure&quot; calorie counting (and by that I mean not changing much of what you eat, just how much you eat) can work for the average person.<p>It&#x27;s just that, to &quot;just eat less&quot;, you actually have to log everything you eat so that you can&#x27;t lie to yourself and blow your calorie budget without knowing it. This is true IMO even if you&#x27;re doing low-carb or any other kind of diet. Accountability and making it impossible to lie to yourself is key.<p>Personal anecdote follows:<p>I lost 50 lbs (220 -&gt; 170 lbs at 6&#x27;2&quot;) by logging every single (non-zero-calorie) thing that passes my lips, and I&#x27;ve kept it off for over a year. I have no idea if the amount of willpower I have is typical, but I definitely couldn&#x27;t have done it if I didn&#x27;t log what I eat. My theory is that if you don&#x27;t actually account for all the food you eat, you&#x27;re more likely to slip out of good habits because you gradually lie to yourself more and more until you&#x27;re consistently blowing your calorie budget without realizing it.<p>But I really have to log <i>everything</i>, no matter what, even when I overeat. I can never say to myself &quot;I&#x27;m on vacation, I can skip a day&quot; or &quot;well I&#x27;m already way over my calorie budget, may as well stop logging.&quot; Even if I end up 1500 calories over budget, all the food I ate is right there in my log.<p>There&#x27;s a couple of reasons why I think this works for me:<p>* If I log everything, then it&#x27;s impossible to blow through 200-300 calories on a bagel without realizing it, because the act of logging it puts it in the front of my mind.<p>* So long as I log everything, I can allow myself to blow my budget now and again. But since it&#x27;s logged, I know exactly how many calories I need to make up in the coming days. On a week-to-week and month-to-month basis I can make it all even out.<p>* Even though it&#x27;s human nature to want to eat back all the calories you lost (and you <i>will</i> slip), there&#x27;s nothing in human nature that&#x27;s preventing you from logging it all. I may binge and overeat because my body&#x27;s telling me to, but perhaps the next day when I realize I&#x27;m already 1500 calories over for the week because of yesterday, I&#x27;m better equipped to compensate for it and have a salad for lunch instead.<p>* Once you find the right number of calories, you can avoid under eating as well. For me I decided early I wanted to lose only 1 lb&#x2F;week. So in the early months of my diet there was plenty of times where I was something like 600 calories under my daily budget, and I didn&#x27;t feel like eating, but I <i>forced</i> myself to eat anyway. This throttled my weight loss, but I think it was a major factor in keeping it off... my brain never really went into the severe feast&#x2F;famine recovery that made me yo-yo right back to my old weight.<p>The main downside of this plan though, is I have no exit strategy... I have my &quot;maintenance level&quot; of calories set on my logging app, and I really do plan to just log what I eat for the rest of my life. (I&#x27;ve been doing it for two years straight now.) It&#x27;s completely automatic for me (I use the &quot;Lose It!&quot; app on my iPhone) so I don&#x27;t even see it as a burden any more, but I know that as soon as I stop I&#x27;ll slip back into my old habits and gain all my weight back.
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smtddrabout 11 years ago
<i>&gt;&gt;In studies by Dr. Rudolph L. Leibel of Columbia and colleagues, when lean and obese research subjects were underfed in order to make them lose 10 to 20 percent of their weight, their hunger increased and metabolism plummeted. Conversely, overfeeding sped up metabolism.</i><p>This is kind of useless without knowing if they underfed by decreasing amount of food for each feeding time or reducing the numbers of feeding times. The whole idea of eating many small meals during the day instead of a few big ones. Also, depending on the amount of exercising these people are doing these results could go either way.
germancitoabout 11 years ago
&gt;&gt;<i>Several prominent clinical trials reported no difference in weight loss when comparing diets purportedly differing in protein, carbohydrate and fat. However, these trials had major limitations; at the end, subjects reported that they had not met the targets for complying with the prescribed diets.</i><p>I would really like to know the percentage of subjects who did not comply with the diets. So far the evidence from many clinical trials shows that there is no effect of diet content on weight loss, as much as I like the article&#x27;s point.
Mexxerabout 11 years ago
Is this something new for the American population? Hasn&#x27;t this been known for years or decades already? That&#x27;s why there are low-carb diets. Put that in combination with calorie intake and exercise and your fat will gradually disappear. It&#x27;s not exactly rocket science.
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aianusabout 11 years ago
I wish I was fat so I could achieve my weight goals by sitting around working, watching TV, and not eating. Trust me, trying to gain weight is way more difficult and expensive and time consuming.
encodererabout 11 years ago
I cringe when I hear things like &quot;And when you cut their diets, their metabolism slows down, and when you add to them, it speeds up&quot;<p>That&#x27;s exactly what it&#x27;s supposed to do.
hownottowriteabout 11 years ago
Ref: <a href="http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1871695" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jama.jamanetwork.com&#x2F;article.aspx?articleid=1871695</a>
pkulakabout 11 years ago
If carbs are bad, sugar is horrible. Just in case you haven&#x27;t seen these:<p>Sugar: The Bitter Truth: <a href="http://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;dBnniua6-oM</a><p>Fat Chance: Fructose 2.0: <a href="http://youtu.be/ceFyF9px20Y" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;ceFyF9px20Y</a>
exrationeabout 11 years ago
Everyone wants to be told that it isn&#x27;t their fault that bad things have happened. Its a pernicious, harmful urge most often on display in courtrooms and discussions on weight and diet. Unfortunately reality is what it is: if you eat without consideration and control in this modern world of low-cost calories, then you will get fat. Accepting and acknowledging that you are 100% accountable as to what and how much you eat is a necessary first step to avoiding that end state.
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igraviousabout 11 years ago
Would it be going too far to say the type of person who would most benefit from the nutritional advice of this column is also unlikely to be the type of person who reads the New York Times.<p>And to the person who says that what people put into their mouths is, &quot;generally out of their control&quot; - imagine a legal setting and some crime committed, the only way to claim diminished responsibility is to be a minor or plead various forms of insanity. Are we saying that most overweight&#x2F;obese people are borderline insane when we&#x27;re invoking the, &quot;it&#x27;s not their fault&quot; argument?
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joel_perl_progabout 11 years ago
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTuJ6r1F2hA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rTuJ6r1F2hA</a><p>I&#x27;ve been helping my family and friends with this recipe, and it&#x27;s changing lives. Literally. My father, who I taught how to eat vegetarian, has stopped needing insulin! (After heading steadily down the standard American road...sad...)<p>If you add this smoothie to your daily life, and change <i>nothing</i> else, you will feel better. A lot better. You can still eat bacon and eggs for breakfast (I don&#x27;t recommend that, but you can), and you can still eat a pulled pork sandwich for dinner (also, don&#x27;t recommend), but if you have this smoothie around the middle of the day, you will feel better and experience benefits. More or less immediately from day one.<p>You are quite literally what you eat. How could it possibly be otherwise?<p>EDIT: easily worth any down votes I may receive here. Computer enthusiasts and professionals, for the most part, in my observation, have a huge blind spot for their health. Huge. So down vote away, my friends. As long as you are also involved in your health!
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