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Be Nice Or Leave

180 pointsby dmarinocalmost 11 years ago

38 comments

wallfloweralmost 11 years ago
Neil Gaiman<p>“You get work however you get work, but keep people keep working in a freelance world (and more and more of todays world is freelance), because their work is good, because they are easy to get along with and because they deliver the work on time. And you don’t even need all three! Two out of three is fine. People will tolerate how unpleasant you are if your work is good and you deliver it on time. People will forgive the lateness of your work if it is good and they like you. And you don’t have to be as good as everyone else if you’re on time and it’s always a pleasure to hear from you.”<p><a href="http://vimeo.com/42372767" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;vimeo.com&#x2F;42372767</a><p>A commencement speech so good it is now a slim book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062266764/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;exec&#x2F;obidos&#x2F;ASIN&#x2F;0062266764&#x2F;</a>
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palebluedotalmost 11 years ago
A saying that I heard a long time ago, that really stuck with me (both as a business owner, and from the flipside as a customer):<p><pre><code> You can shear a sheep many times, but you can skin it only once. </code></pre> If you go in for the kill, and really take advantage of someone in a transaction (i.e, skin the sheep), that will likely signal the end of any (positive) transactions with that person, unless you have a monopoly or other such power. Even if they don&#x27;t realize what you did at the time, eventually they will, and they will resent it.<p>But by just shearing the sheep, you are creating a sustainable profit &#x2F; relationship with someone, that will have the potential to be repeat business.<p>This works on the customer side, as well - are you the sort of person that grinds away at every contract and transaction, so that the other side makes (almost) nothing? Well, you are walking the line of skinning that sheep...
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jgrahamcalmost 11 years ago
Some time ago I was involved in founding a company and two VCs were working together to fund us. They&#x27;d come up with a term sheet and we needed to alter some of the parts of it.<p>So, we sat down with them and the CEO of our company laid things out by running through all the parts that everyone agreed on and framing the discussion as &quot;and there are these two provisions that we don&#x27;t, so we&#x27;re really close&quot;.<p>The rest of the discussion was super-smooth because of the way it begun.
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upthedalealmost 11 years ago
This was one of my key take-aways from Dale Carnegie&#x27;s classic, &#x27;How to Win Friends and Influence People&#x27;. I&#x27;ve seen it mentioned on various reading lists for those wanting to go into the business world too.<p>Funny thing is, when recommending it to a friend, they mistakenly assumed from the title that it was a book of underhand tactics, which couldn&#x27;t really be further from the truth. There&#x27;s a lot to be said for being genuinely nice to others.
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rayineralmost 11 years ago
Here&#x27;s the thing about being not nice: you can usually get away with it if you&#x27;re really exceptional, but if you ever misstep, nobody will want to help you out, and some may gleefully put the screws to you. Just in the last couple of years, a couple of acquaintances that had a reputation for being not nice have stumbled career-wise, and unsurprisingly no one was there to lend a hand. Honestly, I was shocked how little time it took to catch up to them.
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protonfishalmost 11 years ago
Everyone is throwing around &quot;nice&quot; like it is a well-defined term and not a fluff word. Let&#x27;s try to define it a little better.<p>In my experience, there are 3 types of &quot;nice&quot;. One is where somebody is subservient to you. Another is when a person is polite and tells you what you want to hear. The other is where somebody is honest and can be counted on to do what they promise.<p>I propose that you cannot be either #1 or #2 and #3.<p>A subservient doormat may seem great, but don&#x27;t forget that you are not the only person they will grovel to. They will follow the most dominant person, and you can&#x27;t count on it being you forever. They are cowards that cannot be trusted.<p>#2, pulling no punches, is a two-faced liar. They are the primary suspects for back-stabbing. Being &quot;nice&quot; is used as a tool to gain your trust.<p>#3 can be rude and abrasive. If they are angry with you, they will act angry with you. They will tell you the truth, even if it hurts your feelings.<p>Being rude and being duplicitous are almost always opposites, but both can be described as being &quot;not nice.&quot; If I had a beach house, I&#x27;d like people to be the #2 type of nice. My goal there would be to relax, so please don&#x27;t burst my obliviousness bubble. But when I get back to work I&#x27;d rather have my allys be #3.
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usingathrowawayalmost 11 years ago
I work with a legitimately talented and hard-working Lead Architect who is not nice.<p>He&#x27;s constantly petty, degrading, and passive-aggressive. He&#x27;ll interpret whatever you say in whichever way allows him to insult you. His &quot;arch reviews&quot; are provided in a way that makes people feel shitty instead of making them smarter. He doesn&#x27;t create sharable documents or written guidance. He is, in essence, a borderless micro-manager, who shits on the whole damned engineering team.<p>He&#x27;s tolerated by the CEO because he shipped the first version of the product quickly, so the CEO thinks he&#x27;s brilliant.<p>He&#x27;s tolerated by the CTO because the CTO doesn&#x27;t realize that his ego and passive-aggressiveness have both swelled as the company has grown.<p>He is the reason that many of our best engineers have left. Every single one of his direct reports has transferred or quit in less than 12 months.<p>He is undermining a great company.<p>At this point, he better hope that we have a great outcome despite his bullshit, because if he doesn&#x27;t make enough money to retire, he&#x27;s fucked. <i>Zero</i> of the engineers (and engineering management) would ever work with him, ever again. It&#x27;s too lousy of an experience.<p>And the really sad thing is that if he was just <i>nice</i> about stuff, he&#x27;d be one of our best employees. But he has to be a dick about every single little thing. He has to be snarky. He has to be the smartest guy in the room. On all topics.
pjmorrisalmost 11 years ago
I spent a long time in the South Florida IT job market. In an area with millions of people and thousands of companies, it never ceased to amaze me how many people in the field knew each other. One of the key factors in job-hunting, then, was your reputation. If you did good work <i>and</i> people liked working with you, there was usually something available. If either of those things wasn&#x27;t true, life was more difficult. A consulting firm founder down there used to say &#x27;People like working with people they like to work with&#x27;. It pays to invest in your friendships and your decency as well as in your technical chops.
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dsirijusalmost 11 years ago
<i>&quot;We know that some of the most successful entrepreneurs in tech have been difficult individuals who did what they had to do to get ahead.&quot;</i>,<p><i>&quot;We know that a lot of investors, VCs included, will do what is required to make a buck.&quot;</i>,<p><i>&quot;It&#x27;s conventional wisdom that being nice is a bad idea&quot;</i>,<p>followed by a singular anecdotal data point arguing otherwise. I&#x27;d posit that it depends on the actual business domain. Some are cutthroat and being nice is gonna be a world of pain for you. I&#x27;m not doing dry flower arrangements myself, so I wouldn&#x27;t know. But in my domain (games) being nice bit me on my ass as much as being mean (if that&#x27;s even an antonym to <i>nice</i>) did.<p>So, in conclusion, it&#x27;s a perpetual dilemma, not one-size-fit-all.<p>EDIT:<p>The whole article is a bit disingenuous imho. Title might as well be paraphrased as &quot;Be nice or I&#x27;m gonna be mean&quot;.<p>Another food for thought - etymology of <i>nice</i> is from Latin <i>nescius</i>, meaning <i>ignorant</i>.
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digitalengineeralmost 11 years ago
I have noticed certain people seem to think &#x27;being nice&#x27; equals &#x27;dumb&#x27; and &#x27;unexperienced&#x27;. Most people are so used to others claiming everything; their time, their concepts, designs,… they think just because you&#x27;re not an asshole, you&#x27;re a push-over.
peteretepalmost 11 years ago
My boss is a former M&amp;A guy, and very very financially focussed but: I have a lot of trust in him, because I know that he will always delegate to &quot;doing the right thing&quot; over a quick buck. That&#x27;s saved him a lot of money in working with me when it&#x27;s come to bonus, salary, or work-related negotiations.
rthomas6almost 11 years ago
This reminds me of the book &quot;Getting to Yes&quot;.<p>If you take a principled stand in negotiations and truly want what is fair, you can separate the issue at hand from the people. In doing so, you can be polite and nice, while not getting steamrolled in negotiation. You can look at negotiations like working together to get to agreement on what is fair and best for both parties, instead of fighting against one another to get as much as you can. It also allows you to say &quot;no&quot; in a non-personal way, because you&#x27;re only doing what makes sense for your side.
phatboyslimalmost 11 years ago
There appear to be a number of anecdotes in the book Hatching Twitter where Fred Wilson is painted as the bad guy. I wonder how much of this was for the book, or how possibly I am misinterpreting it.
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jacquesmalmost 11 years ago
&quot;nice guys finish last&quot; and other bs is what drives that culture.<p>The fact that some of the idols in the tech industry are definitely not nice (and in fact are revered for that) does not help either.<p>Your reputation is your most hard won capital, spend it wisely.
candybaralmost 11 years ago
Being nice is easy. Being good is hard.<p>What&#x27;s missing here is that powerful people are almost always transacting on behalf of many others who are not present at the bargaining table. By being nice, they may be trading other people&#x27;s money for personal goodwill that they get to keep for themselves. This is &quot;being nice&quot; in some ways, but this isn&#x27;t good for society and may be highly unethical. Would you want government regulators to be nice to the industry people they are regulating because in the long run they benefit from having good relationship with industry leaders? Would you want hedge fund managers who&#x27;s managing your money to be nice to banks, that is, overpay for services, because fees come out of your pocket while they can monetize the relationship in the future? Would you want college admissions officers to be nice to their friends with college-bound kids? When you&#x27;re applying for internships, would you want the hiring managers to be nice to all their church friends who may need something to do during the summer?<p>People in powerful positions being nice to personal acquaintances at the expense of strangers is a huge problem and the root of all corruption. I&#x27;m not saying that you shouldn&#x27;t be nice - being ethical and balancing the interests of all parties involved is an extremely tricky proposition but I&#x27;m surprised at the amount of agreement here, because so much of what people complain about around here often comes down to other people being nice to one another at your expense.<p>Edit: I&#x27;m especially surprised that a VC would make such a comment because it&#x27;s an industry where being nice for the sake of relationship can be highly unethical. You&#x27;re always working with other people&#x27;s money and whether as an investor or a board member, you&#x27;re often responsible for making decisions that benefit people you represent even if it involves some kind of hit to your &quot;nice&quot; reputation. At the top level of management, big decisions are rarely easy and always have winners and losers.<p>Edit2: As another example, the recent non-poaching deal between SV companies was probably rationalized as &quot;let&#x27;s be nice to one another&quot; while those that didn&#x27;t participate were seen as not being nice or being too cutthroat. Niceness between natural competitors can quickly lead to a collusive agreement.<p>Edit3: I&#x27;m not advising any specific course of action, simply noting that the advice as given is far too vague and can often lead to rationalization of highly unethical activities. I&#x27;m sure Steve Jobs thought Google trying to recruit Apple employees was &quot;Google screwing over Apple&quot; and the consequent no-poach agreement is partners being nice to one another.<p>Edit4: Dreamweapon, I didn&#x27;t downvote you (don&#x27;t have the power anyway) but regulators work with executives, directors and employees who are people. Regulators have strong incentives to cultivate relationships with people in the industry so that they can transition into the private sector. Likewise, hedge fund managers aren&#x27;t trying to be nice to the banks - they are being nice to specific salespeople, brokers and bankers because they can expect favors in return. Also favoritism to people you know is being nice to people you know - the gist of what&#x27;s being advocated here is be nice to people you know, because relationship.
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antirezalmost 11 years ago
In the specific case of open source software &#x2F; IT scene, which I believe is in part a &quot;business&quot; a this point since a lot of programmers see it as a way of self promotion (which surely is), and many companies build OSS software even if the way it is created is mostly closed-source-alike, I believe that there is a tension between being nice and be successful. It boils down to the fact popularity among IT folks can be reached in two main ways. 1) Build great stuff. 2) Criticize stuff and set a new trend (either for self-promotion or to move people to your product). &quot;2&quot; is a lot simpler than &quot;1&quot;, and &quot;2&quot; is definitely not about being nice, so the result is that the IT community is full of people that are not nice and I think this is not going to change in the long run since there are big gains in not being nice.
mathattackalmost 11 years ago
Being nice is like the Prisoner&#x27;s Dilemma. It doesn&#x27;t pay in the short term, but people who are consistently nice to each other help out in the long run. This is why CEOs that are nasty are actually the exception, though some of their lower level attendants can be jerks. If you aren&#x27;t trustworthy, you lose access to a lot of people and opportunities.
SyneRyderalmost 11 years ago
Possibly related: last week on This Week In Startups, the interview with Yossi Vardi discussed his philosophy of only investing in &quot;nice&quot; people:<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozcfDoC-srM#t=14m37s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ozcfDoC-srM#t=14m37s</a><p>And later that week, during the interview with Gil Penchina, Jason mentions the benefits of being nice, after being screwed over by someone who shut him out of a deal and took advantage of a founder by offering them a term sheet &amp; telling them not to shop it around.<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flX3NEb5bf0#t=30m49s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=flX3NEb5bf0#t=30m49s</a><p>(more specific comments here) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flX3NEb5bf0#t=37m57s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=flX3NEb5bf0#t=37m57s</a><p>Maybe I&#x27;m reading too much into this, but it&#x27;s curious to see so much discussion of &quot;nice&quot; at the moment.
lukasmalmost 11 years ago
This is especially true for VCs. Since dozen of winners generate 90% of returns you should by all means attract the best companies. This is not apparent in stock market.<p>Apart from moral side and integrity. Defaulting to not being evil will yield the best return in the long term. You should do it even if your motives are purely selfish.
mcmattersonalmost 11 years ago
We also have one of those signs, from when a good friend lived next door to Dr. Bob&#x27;s workshop (he being the purveyor of those signs). He&#x27;s an incredible (and incredibly oddball) guy, and a visit to his workshop &#x2F; junkyard is a great example of the part of New Orleans that most visitors never see.
baldfatalmost 11 years ago
I think this all is based on a person&#x27;s comfort level with conflict.<p>A) I can&#x27;t sleep at night when I possibly was a jerk.<p>B)Other&#x27;s sleep with a smile on their face.<p>Sometimes the room is full of type A or B and everything is good. 95% of the time the room is full of A + B and A thinks they are jerks and B thinks that A is just stupid.
bowlofpetuniasalmost 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve found that the people that seem the nicest are the worst people to do business with. Niceness is often mistaken for not telling the whole truth.<p>Also, many of those nice people often disappear when the shit hits the fan, because they don&#x27;t want to be seen bringing bad news. That doesn&#x27;t fit with the &quot;nice&quot; image they have of themselves.<p>All things being equal I would rather do business with an honest asshole than a nice person I cannot trust.<p>Niceness is overrated. Not screwing people over and being &quot;nice&quot; are two very different things.
jimmyjohnson12almost 11 years ago
One of the biggest companies in the world invited us the little guy innovator to demo our new technology. They were down right NASTY and mean.<p>I say this not because they didn&#x27;t buy us out, but because we spent our money to fly to the valley to demo our tech only to learn they blocked our tech from working and said things like, you better run the race is on.<p>They also baited us with money and opportunity if we told them how our tech worked. We took the bait and they kicked us out!<p>Not sure why they had to be such jerks!?!
demystifiedalmost 11 years ago
It is all about taking the short-term vs. long term approach. Both would work -- but I would prefer the latter.<p>Focus on short-term, work towards maximize profit&#x2F;value and capture immediate benefits (without taking into account other&#x27;s thoughts). If it works that&#x27;s great, but most likely it won&#x27;t.<p>Or focus on long-term - invest in people (your time and resources). No immediate benefits but long-term returns are likely higher.
anarchitectalmost 11 years ago
This reminds me of a piece of advice I heard somewhere, which I keep coming back to – &quot;be someone that people want to work with again&quot;.
seanmcdirmidalmost 11 years ago
Sounds very American; like the server in a resteraunt being overly nice, making those of us who aren&#x27;t used to the wallmart greeter style uncomfortable.<p>Cut the bull; I would rather people be more honest than be more nice (and if they are trying too hard, it&#x27;s easy to tell). It&#x27;s amazing how a bit of bluntness automatically influences me and how much niceness projection makes me sick.
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robbiepalmost 11 years ago
Pareto Optimal solutions start with this behaviour
smegmalifealmost 11 years ago
Funny how often conventional wisdom is wrong, and &quot;not being nice&quot; is no different. When you look at the great companies, they were always focused on relationships and generally doing the right thing. Being nice is good not only from a business standpoint, but a personal standpoint as well.
ZenProalmost 11 years ago
Almost everybody I have ever learned something truly valuable from was a nice person.<p>I have yet to meet an example of the single-minded-asshole-genius who is actually a success.<p>Most of the truly credible successes I have met are nice people and highly regarded.
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adamzerneralmost 11 years ago
This post makes a claim, and provides minimal&#x2F;no support for it. Really, the support is because it&#x27;s a trustworthy source. But still, there&#x27;s a lot more value in truly understanding the reasoning behind it.
ChuckMcMalmost 11 years ago
I find this an interesting counter to the Diplomacy post (Alpha Nerd Game) yesterday. I wonder if the same rules apply in Fred&#x27;s world.
sbherealmost 11 years ago
&gt; It’s not the fastest way to make a buck. It takes time. But it is way more sustainable than screwing people over.<p>Being nice != not(screwing people over)<p>Big difference.
JVIDELalmost 11 years ago
Being nice in business is easy, it&#x27;s the not-being-a-backstabing-jerk part that most people don&#x27;t seem to get.
lgmspbalmost 11 years ago
I think it is important to either be nice to everyone or to be an asshole to everyone. As simple as that
anathebealioalmost 11 years ago
Too often I find that people who are nice in daily life are considered naive or push-overs. It is a skill to be kind to others and to retain the reputation of standing your ground. I&#x27;m not sure why there is confusion between having an opinion&#x2F;looking out for yourself and being a jerk -- and this certainly shines through the most in business where everyone is looking to make money.<p>My boss is an extremely kind man, but when it comes down to it, he always comes out of meetings and negotiations with what he wanted. Everyone in the company highly respects him for it and everyone is better off because of it.
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comrade1almost 11 years ago
There will always be conflict. I&#x27;m currently working with two of the nicest people I&#x27;ve ever met but we still have conflict and we still argue and &#x27;fight&#x27; over big things such as direction of the company, goals for growth, etc.<p>It&#x27;s a matter of how you fight - with these guys it&#x27;s respectful arguing, sometimes raised voices, even talking over each other, but I know in the end that they&#x27;re fair and we respect each other.<p>In my previous company I worked with one of scummiest people I&#x27;ve ever met and the fighting was quite different. He avoided it rather than addressed it, and he also seemed to take my disagreements personal. But from the outside it probably looked like he&#x27;s &#x27;nicer&#x27; than my current partners.
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michaelochurchalmost 11 years ago
I worked at a company once that conflated mean-spirited policies with &quot;just business&quot;. The result was a downfall that was <i>entirely</i> preventable.<p>Vacation and sick leave were combined (&quot;PTO&quot;) which meant that you had to take a vacation day if you got sick. The result of this was that people came into work when ill and <i>everyone</i> was less productive. Very little ever got done in the winter, because it was just one constant office-wide cold. (I had so many colds, that season, that I saw a doctor to find out if something was wrong with my immune system.)<p>Open-plan offices are another penny-wise, pound-foolish institution. They&#x27;re not used because they&#x27;re &quot;collaborative&quot; or &quot;hip&quot; but because they&#x27;re cheap, and they&#x27;re cheap because they&#x27;re shitty. The result, however, is high turnover, increased sick load, distraction and antagonism. There&#x27;s also an overwhelming amount of evidence that open-plan offices hurt the best employees the most, which means you&#x27;re losing off the top. That&#x27;s not where you want to lose.<p>The killer was when it bought (<i>cough</i> rescued) another company and installed the acquired company&#x27;s upper management. The new regime&#x27;s first move was to kill the acquiring company&#x27;s R&amp;D team-- not because it wasn&#x27;t doing useful work (it was) but because &quot;their side&quot; (the acquiring company) didn&#x27;t have an R&amp;D team. So a high-performing R&amp;D team that had already built some powerful stuff (and was 6-9 months away from solving an existential-risk fraud problem) was shut down. Those guys over there have too much freedom! They&#x27;re in danger of actually saving the company! Shut them down, now!<p>Of course, the health benefits were shit, which meant that days of work time were lost to haggling with insurance companies and hospitals about bills. Whatever pennies are saved by having a crappy health plan is lost when employees have to haggle on their own behalf to get health care.<p>Sometimes, cost cutting is the right way to go, but that&#x27;s rare and usually in a well-understood existential crisis. As in, &quot;this company won&#x27;t be around in two years unless we&#x27;re really tight, and here&#x27;s how we plan to make it up&quot;.<p>I can&#x27;t respect companies that play against their employees. If you have a crappy health plan, a bad PTO policy, closed allocation, stack ranking, and a bad office space, then you&#x27;re not playing to win. Instead, you&#x27;re in the business of competing against your employees, when you should be in the business of excelling at something, and of winning in the market. You only get to pick one, in the long term, in this world.<p>Unfortunately, for the individual executive, the &quot;be a dick&quot; strategy often works. Most &quot;tech&quot; startups are scams: companies not built to last, but just to be sold to some &quot;greater fool&quot; before it falls to pieces on account of its own sloppy constitution. The individuals who build these crap companies generally get to cash out (or, at least, move on to cushy venture capital jobs) before that happens and, when it does, they can plausibly (if falsely) blame their successors.
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showsoveralmost 11 years ago
Can&#x27;t seem to read the article as the server&#x27;s not working.<p>Also, this submission gets 11 votes even though it isn&#x27;t readable? Strange.