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The Secret Guild of Silicon Valley (2012)

66 pointsby nate_martinalmost 11 years ago

16 comments

enneffalmost 11 years ago
What an annoying article.<p>You know what the great engineers that I know have in common? They&#x27;re great at engineering. Once you start looking at other qualities, they are pretty diverse. Some have families, others are single. Some play trading card games, others write musicals. Some wear ironic T-shirts, others dress &quot;up&quot; (not exclusive of course). Some fly planes, others ride bikes. Some are straight white dudes with kids, others are transgender people in polyamorous relationships.<p>You know what else is interesting? They come from everywhere, and every one of them had a first gig somewhere, where nobody realised how brilliant they were (with some rare exceptions).<p>Great people are all around you. Don&#x27;t limit yourself by falling for the caricature.
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Balgairalmost 11 years ago
John lives in the basement of the UCLA center for Health Sciences. It&#x27;s is actually a maze. You can get very lost very easy. There are street signs inside it&#x27;s halls. John is deep inside the foundations of the building. John is part of that foundation, so it fits.<p>John knows. What? Well, just about nothing he&#x27;ll tell you. But it is a lie. John is part of the cadre of people that know what they do not know, and John knows it&#x27;s a lot. But that is the trick, John <i>knows</i> that he is a moron. This is because John has just about seen it all.<p>Here&#x27;s an example. On labtop centrifuges, the transformer for the high velocity motor sits right under the catch lid for liquids on most models. Not the best design, but if it fries, just about anyone will know. And pay. They cost a lot, as they need to be precise. So John repairs them for the UCLA researches that can&#x27;t be bothered. But there is a thing that John knows, because he&#x27;s part of the cadre.<p>If nitric acid, common in organic chemistry, drips on the transformer and fries it, something happens. John knows this because one day he was soldering on the PCB to repair the transformer and the whole ground trace went missing in about one second. John lost his eyebrows to find this out. Turns out, the nitric acid reacts with the various chemicals in the transformer and the PCB. The PCB gets eaten and becomes, well, a very good way of removing hair on your face. The whole board gets contaminated with a drop and you have to very very careful when soldering thereafter.<p>John knows this. Not really anyone else but who John talks to knows this. And since John is part of the cadre, not really anyone knows. But all the guys, and they are universally men, know. And they <i>care.</i><p>The cadre is full of the people the OP talks about. Large shirts holding in bellies of Tab and Fritos, heavy breathing, glasses, a lot of Weird Al and Dr. Demento trivia. These guys are insufferable at first. They couldn&#x27;t hold a girlfriend, let alone a wife, to save their lives. They know nothing of sports or chrome. Their lives are their work. The people upstairs from John are completely reliant on John, and they hate it. John isn&#x27;t unfriendly, in fact, hes a great guy. But Lord almighty, he will talk your ear off.<p>But John knows.
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ilamontalmost 11 years ago
@bdcravens posted this 2-year-old link (<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3922579" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3922579</a>), referencing the same post. Read the whole thread -- lots of interesting comments from all kinds of perspectives.<p>A question for the community, based on this comment:<p><i>hkarthik 780 days ago | link (<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3923997" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3923997</a>)<p>I&#x27;ve been speaking to a few of the more established startups in the Bay Area that built apps on Rails and have started migrating the performance hotspots to the JVM. There&#x27;s definitely a pattern I&#x27;ve seen.<p>1) First version of the app is built in Ruby, Python, or PHP and the lightweight stack helps the business stay nimble as it finds its market position&#x2F;niche. During this time, there are a LOT of inexperienced, younger engineers working on the code.<p>2) Once the right market position is found, the app takes off and scaling problems abound as the lightweight stack starts to fall down at massive scale.<p>3) Funding is secured and more experienced, older talent (the Guild) is brought in (at much higher salaries) to help fix the hot spots. This is usually done using a combination of using the JVM or unmanaged C&#x2F;C++. The engineering demographic often switches here as you see a lot of 30-something veterans from Yahoo, Google, etc come in and bring their tools with them.<p>4) Scaling isn&#x27;t an issue anymore, but the culture has changed a bit as the business has become more established. Many of the early folks have moved on or gone into leadership roles. A few have been absorbed into the Guild and will move on.<p>It&#x27;s very interesting. I&#x27;ve worked mostly in the midwest and the South during my career, and this lifecycle of talent is not something I&#x27;ve really observed outside of the Valley.</i><p>Why wouldn&#x27;t this be something that takes place outside of the Bay Area?
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frozenportalmost 11 years ago
Sometimes they spend a month refactoring Boost. Then you don&#x27;t ship.
kabdibalmost 11 years ago
2012, yes.<p>I recommend reading Robert Gossbach&#x27;s fiction book _A Shortage of Engineers_ for a funny and ironic hardware-centric view of this.<p>I once got a roomful of laughter by quipping, &quot;What we need are some more fat engineers with beards here.&quot; Where there is laughter there is often a painful truth.
noname123almost 11 years ago
Man, what about Clojure, Scala, Go, Node.js, Hadoop and Spark? I wanted to join the elite group and screw those JS&#x2F;PHP monkeys (JS in the backend with Node callbacks are honorary elite members), so I invested so much time learning those - only to understand C is the only l33t!<p>To tell you a secret, C is too hard for me because all of the system programming, de-referencing pointers make my head spin. Their threading, socket multiplexing I usually can&#x27;t understand until Node.js or Scala introduces something similar to it and boils it down for me. Bah, seg-fault again!<p>Well, I hope someone makes a Codeacademy or Railcast for C very soon for a plebe like me. But only give select invitations as not to dilute the membership, I don&#x27;t want to belong to any club that will accept me.
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overgardalmost 11 years ago
I can&#x27;t tell if this is ironic, or if the scene has been so watered down by hipsters that knowing C is like being a magician? I mean, having worked with people like this (outside of the crude stereotypes), these people aren&#x27;t that hard to find. The addendum makes me think it&#x27;s more about valuing real experience with timeless technology over fads, which I guess I agree with, but I find the point of the article to be a bit opaque.
bdcravensalmost 11 years ago
Posted 2 years ago: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3922579" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3922579</a>
sanxiynalmost 11 years ago
A change since 2012. I think ever since <a href="https://blog.twitter.com/2014/manhattan-our-real-time-multi-tenant-distributed-database-for-twitter-scale" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.twitter.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;manhattan-our-real-time-multi-...</a> Twitter is manifestly in the know now.
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rdlalmost 11 years ago
&quot;companies that have struggled to build an engineering reputation, like foursquare, can offer.&quot; Excuse me? Foursquare has pretty well regarded engineering talent, at least their West Coast office.
hyp0almost 11 years ago
Nice and truthy, but backwards: company success causes hiring of the Guild, not vice versa. Sun didn&#x27;t die because neckbeards left. Neckbeards left because Sun was dying.
LordHumungousalmost 11 years ago
As a java programmer I&#x27;m flattered to know I&#x27;m one of the elite few. And here I thought i was just another schmuck.
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kurigealmost 11 years ago
I sure hope these mythical figures have more discerning taste in board games than Settlers of Catan.
ratsimihahalmost 11 years ago
Nmtba, but to what extent is this entertaining generalization true?
eng_monkeyalmost 11 years ago
According to the article, are they then engineers or tradesmen?
MBlumealmost 11 years ago
<a href="http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pbm.com&#x2F;~lindahl&#x2F;real.programmers.html</a>