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Ask HN: Accounting questions

3 pointsby nkhalmost 11 years ago
Does anyone have a recommendation for books, articles, or actual accountants that specialize in accounting for enterprise software? If we should capitalize vs expense our development. If we capitalize, I believe we have an asset we can depreciate. Although, I don&#x27;t know, that is why I am looking for any helpful direction you guys may be able to point me.<p>I would also like to know the tax tradeoffs for different entities. Like an LLC vs a limited partnership wrapped in a C-Corp etc. I know the basics, but would like to come up with an optimal tax strategy.<p>My current background:<p>I am a member of a bootstrapped three founder startup. We are focusing on the enterprise space, and are currently setup as an LLC.

2 comments

redtexturealmost 11 years ago
See: &quot;Twelve reasons for a startup not to be an LLC&quot; - Joe Wallin - Startup Law Blog (September 30, 2011)<p><a href="http://www.startuplawblog.com/2011/09/30/12-reasons-for-a-startup-not-to-be-an-llc/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.startuplawblog.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;09&#x2F;30&#x2F;12-reasons-for-a-st...</a><p>Best advice is to spend a few hundred dollars and talk to a Certified Public Accountant for about two or three hours. I hope you have people in your network of friends, parents, collaborators, legal advisors, potential funding individuals, chambers of commerce, business development collaboratives, and the like that can send you to a friendly CPA. If you do not, you need to develop your own network of advisors, today.<p>In brief: A Limited Liability Company (LLC) can ELECT with a filing to the Internal Revenue Service to be treated for tax purposes as a partnership, or as a C-Coporation. A limited partnership needs to have one partner that is a &quot;general&quot; partner that has unlimited liability, who then associates with limited partners, and that makes the whole structure more complicated, if you choose to make a corporation a &quot;general&quot;: you then have two entities to manage. A corporation can also elect, by filing with the IRS, to be a Subchapter &quot;S&quot; corp, which has many characteristics of partnership taxation, but also numerous cautions that must be monitored to avoid running into unexpected tax issues.<p>In general, if you&#x27;re expecting funding from outside sources (which could be you, the founders), you&#x27;ll find that a standard C-Corp setup is what the funders prefer and desire. Generally Venture Capital funds (which are typically structured as limited partnerships themselves), and individual investors do NOT want the activities of a funded startup to start showing up on their own personal tax return (which is how Sub-S, Limited Partnership and LLCs that are treated as partnerships work for tax purposes) except in a particular limited and defined way (which is more typical for Real Estate projects). For example, if and when your entity starts being profitable, do you want to start paying taxes on profits of the LLC, that the LLC may not be able to afford to distribute to you (so that you can pay taxes)?<p>And LLCs have enough control and valuation wrinkles, that it can be simpler to do a corporation form of entity, from an investor&#x27;s perspective. It can be, in some cases and states challenging to have more than one class of LLC owner&#x2F;members, whereas Corporations typically have more than one class of stock.<p>You fail to indicate why taxes are an interest, so it&#x27;s not really possible to respond very well to your inquiry. Just talk to a good CPA.<p>I would speculate your main interest is to support your work, with some kind of funding, and figure out how to get something valuable to a newly found or newly created market. Why are taxes worrisome as this stage of your effort?<p>There&#x27;s not much point in capitalizing your startup costs, since you&#x27;re probably not going to make money for a while, and a lot of effort will be thrown away as you figure out what you&#x27;re going to do...and that makes it interesting to justify and characterize the capitalization of the effort. It is likely the ultimate actual product you produce might only have a fraction of the expenditure-to-date located the final result...after you throw away previous efforts thanks to pivoting and re-thinking what in the world your market and product is.
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akg_67almost 11 years ago
I am not an accountant so take my advise with grains of salt. I learnt this working for an enterprise software, hardware and services company, in MBA Accounting class, and having my own startup and side business.<p>If you want to understand tradeoffs for different entities as well as deferred comp, trusts etc., I will recommend this book: Dwight Drake, Business Planning Closely Held Enterprises.<p>As a bootstrapped startup, LLC is a good choice until you decide to take external investor money or start generating significant profits. At that time, you can re-incorporate as C-corp.<p>The main tax benefit of LLC is as you most likely will have losses initially, all those losses will flow from LLC to founders personal tax returns, reducing founders tax liability. Once you start to have significant earnings (net income, not revenue), consider reincorporating as C-corp as C-corp will allow you to retain earnings reducing the earning flow to founders&#x27;s tax returns, preventing founders&#x27; tax liability from increasing.<p>(Accrual Accounting) If you are selling packaged software similar to Oracle, Windows etc. (not service and not SaaS) to Enterprise, you can capitalize R&amp;D expenses for developing that software. These expenses will be depreciated over a &quot;reasonable&quot; number of year. Don&#x27;t recall exact number but I believe most companies use either 3, 5, 7 or 10 years. The revenue from sale of software is realized right away as soon as you sold the software irrespective of whether you received actual cash or not. If the sold license is valid for only certain period of duration, you spread the selling price&#x2F;revenue over the duration of the license.<p>The revenue from integration, implementation, and professional services and associated &#x27;unique&#x27; costs are not realized until you have performed and deliver the service. The revenue from support contract is realized over the life of the support contract.<p>If you decide to sell license, support and services as a package, internally you will need to allocate selling price between the three categories and then apply revenue recognition appropriate for each category separately.<p>Overall, unless you are spending millions of dollars in developing software from your own pockets and very close to millions of dollars in revenue, I wouldn&#x27;t worry too much with Accrual Accounting (described above) and stay with Cash Accounting (Cash In, Cash Out). You can always change things in the future as circumstances change.