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It takes more than practice to excel

105 pointsby Multicsalmost 11 years ago

18 comments

mconealmost 11 years ago
I think this confirms what a lot of us intrinsically felt: Some people are just better at certain things than others. Jeff Bezos came to this realization while he was in college:<p>&quot;Intent on becoming a theoretical physicist and following the likes of Einstein and Hawking, he discovered that although he was one of the top 25 students in his honors physics program, he wasn&#x27;t smart enough to compete with the handful of real geniuses around him. &#x27;I looked around the room,&#x27; Bezos recalls, &#x27;and it was clear to me that there were three people in the class who were much, much better at it than I was, and it was much, much easier for them. It was really sort of a startling insight, that there were these people whose brains were wired differently.&#x27; The pragmatic Bezos switched his major to computer science and committed himself to starting and running his own business.&quot; [1]<p>[1] <a href="http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/7.03/bezos_pr.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.wired.com&#x2F;wired&#x2F;archive&#x2F;7.03&#x2F;bezos_pr.html</a>
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zvrbaalmost 11 years ago
I think the key is &quot;deliberate practice&quot; -- google it; but here&#x27;s an OK article: <a href="http://www.fastcompany.com/3020758/leadership-now/why-deliberate-practice-is-the-only-way-to-keep-getting-better" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fastcompany.com&#x2F;3020758&#x2F;leadership-now&#x2F;why-delibe...</a><p>But before learning about &#x27;deliberate practice&#x27;, I had first heard a saying that &quot;practice makes permanent&quot;. You have to practice with the actual intention of getting better and perfecting your technique, otherwise you&#x27;re just strengthening the old habits.<p>Some context for the rest of the text: my hobbies are aikido and an old Japanese sword art, so I practice sword cuts a lot (wooden sword, no target -- yet).<p>Deliberate practice is hard, it&#x27;s taxing, both physically but <i>also</i> mentally. It requires not only that you focus on <i>what</i> you&#x27;re doing but also consciously focusing on <i>how</i> you&#x27;re doing it. By focusing on what and how simultaneously, you can draw a causal connection between the result (what) and how you achieved it. If you&#x27;re not satisfied with the result, then you try to modify the &quot;how&quot; in a variety of ways until you feel the result has gotten better.<p>This is mentally taxing and absolutely <i>not</i> fun. You&#x27;re watching yourself making mistakes in real time, the mind wants but the body cannot (yet). Sometimes you even need to get a fundamentally new idea about &quot;what&quot; or &quot;how&quot; in order to break the (current) barrier. Suddenly an advice that you got from a teacher a year ago, and which didn&#x27;t make sense then, makes sense NOW.<p>And after having practiced for a while (usually up to 50 min; different exercises), I notice that I have reverted to &quot;blind&quot; practice, that I can no longer focus on &quot;how&quot;, regardless how much I try. That&#x27;s when I stop, regardless of how much &quot;real time&quot; has elapsed.<p>---<p>Trying to write ten thousand different sentences will make you a better writer than writing the same sentence ten thousand times.
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phatbytealmost 11 years ago
To me one factor that matter a lot is motivation, or a goal to achieve something.<p>In my field I see a lot of people coming into CS just because it&#x27;s trendy and they will sure have a job after graduation. But they lack the motivation to do something in that field. A lot are just in it because the pay is great and you can around computers all day..<p>I remember when I was 9 I had a goal, I wanted to make a game. I didn&#x27;t even have a computer back then, but I knew I wanted to make a game so others could play it. I remember spending afternoons drawing level design, characters and how the game would work once I had my own computer. I never actually made a game but I loved the idea of creating something for other to use.<p>When I was 14 (now with a Pentium 100mhz good times) I wanted to be an hacker (hehe), so I learned C, Socket programming, I wet my feet into Linux, I started messing around deamons like email, web server.<p>When I was 18 I needed money, my parents couldn&#x27;t afford to pay my tuition. So I created an app, to add my empty Resume and got hired by a software company to develop web apps.<p>Tens years fast-forward and here I am today, still making apps that people can use and still learning everyday, working for an awesome company, having my own small software-shop on the side and doing what I love to do.<p>I may not excel in my field, I may not be disruptive (haha), but I truly love what I do and can&#x27;t honestly see myself doing anything else.<p>I just wanted to say that&#x27;s fine not to excel or to be in the top 10. If that&#x27;s your goal, go for it, but as long as you love what you do and have something that motivate you I&#x27;m pretty sure you will do just fine.
kappalorisalmost 11 years ago
A funny thought: this is a very obvious thing for people who follow the competitive scenes of (valid) multiplayer games. There are lots of cases where progamers get to a high level of skill after an amount of practice that absolutely would not be enough for other people. In the end it&#x27;s not dark magic, they just tend to already have the right mindset (and experience from other games for example) to make the most of their practice.<p>An iconic example is the team (Na`Vi) that won the first big DotA2 tournament. The game was in closed beta and professional DotA1 teams got a key at different times. Navi got their key just 1 month before the tournament while other teams got theirs way before. Still, 1 month was enough to beat all other professional teams.<p>There&#x27;s a lot of interesting things that one can learn from esports, even just from the sheer amount of data generated (dota2 has almost 10M unique monthly players).
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jwattealmost 11 years ago
If we believe in evolution as expression of genetic traits, And we believe that intellectual capacity has evolved, Then we believe that intellectual capacity is a generic trait.<p>(Remains to determine whether intellectual capacity genetic trait varies like &quot;has two arms,&quot; or like &quot;height,&quot; and of course to try to pin down how to measure it, and count how many &quot;its&quot; there may be.)
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ivotronalmost 11 years ago
From Daniel Kahneman&#x27;s &quot;Thinking, Fast and Slow&quot;: practice AND feedback. Without feedback, you don&#x27;t know how well&#x2F;bad you&#x27;re doing
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RachelFalmost 11 years ago
A lot of it is in the DNA. Here&#x27;s a study where they compared twins, some who practise music and some who didn&#x27;t:<p><a href="http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21606259-musical-ability-dna-practice-may-not-make-perfect" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;science-and-technology&#x2F;2160625...</a>
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jamesromalmost 11 years ago
&quot;Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.&quot; — Vince Lombardi
arh68almost 11 years ago
I&#x27;ve thought about this for years, since hearing about Gladwell&#x27;s 10khrs rule. I recently started reading <i>The Inner Game of Tennis</i>, and I think it&#x27;s clarified what&#x27;s going on here. It&#x27;s obvious the trend is related to <i>physical</i>, not intellectual, skills. Playing violin, soccer, archery, etc. The &#x27;deliberate practice&#x27; concept basically boils down to clearing up interference between Self 1 &amp; Self 2 [1]. You have to maintain the constant feedback loop, where you are aware of what you are playing, you hear the notes, and you make small adjustments to Self 1. The opposite of this, the useless kind of practice, is where you tell Self 2 to shut up and keep making endless adjustments, never <i>listening</i> to the feedback.<p>This state of mind, &#x27;conscious unconsciousness&#x27;, trains your Self 2 to execute. I don&#x27;t know why it takes so long for the subconscious to learn, but muscle memory does develop.<p>Most people think these people are training their Self 1, as if studying music theory will guide their hand, unconsciously, up the scales. It doesn&#x27;t work that way. You can&#x27;t memorize a compound bend on guitar, you can&#x27;t memorize a double stop on a violin. Self 1, as important as it imagines itself, cannot play music all by itself. There are far too many notes in any song to consciously focus on each one as it passes. You have to rely on muscle memory to get you through.<p>Keeping that feedback loop open is about as hard as maintaining averted vision in the night sky. Or staring into a Magic Eye. You&#x27;ve got to relax <i>and</i> focus.<p>[1] you&#x27;ll have to read the book. Self 1 observes &amp; directs, Self 2 executes. Roughly, Self 1 is conscious, Self 2 is subconscious.
jmulhoalmost 11 years ago
“But Macnamara and her colleagues found that practice explained 12 percent in mastering skills in various fields, from music, sports and games to education and professions. The importance of practice in various areas was: 26 percent for games, 21 percent for music, 18 percent for sports, 4 percent for education and less than 1 percent for other professions.”<p>This is just stupid. Suppose I take a test to see how many pairs of three digit numbers I can multiply correctly in one minute. Then I practice multiplying three digit numbers for one hour twice a day for two weeks. Then I take the test again. How much will I improve? 100%, 200%, 1,000%? How close will I be to having “mastered” the skill of multiplying three digit numbers? Is 28 hours enough? Maybe I am just not able to master a skill that is so difficult to master. Let’s suppose I’ve got the right stuff and I am able to master this particular skill. Now convince me that practice explains only 12 percent of my success!
jkscmalmost 11 years ago
There are many threads here discussing the influence of genetic factors but this is not what the article is about. Genetic factors are not mentioned in the article. One of the last paragraphs states other possible factors explicitly:<p>&gt; Her next step is to find out what factors contribute to being an expert on an instrument, playing field, in the classroom or at work. She hopes to investigate such factors as basic abilities, age when starting to learn the skill, confidence, positive or negative feedback, self-motivation and the ability to take risks.<p>I think the whole nature vs nurture discussion in relation to intellectual aptitude is shaped to much by peoples own biases which leads them to ignore the overwhelming evidence for the importance of nurture&#x2F;culture&#x2F;eduction&#x2F;...<p>Maybe it&#x27;s easier to believe some people are born smart.
programminggeekalmost 11 years ago
I don&#x27;t think anyone who has ever truly excelled at something would attribute all the success solely to practice, but I don&#x27;t think anyone who truly excelled did so by not practicing either.<p>Sports are a great example of this. A great athlete is often...<p>One part genetic gifts - if you are tall basketball might work well for you, if you&#x27;re short maybe a horse jockey would be a more sensible sport.<p>One part intuitive skill or affinity - some people naturally are good at throwing a baseball fast or really love to kick a soccer ball. Some people just aren&#x27;t.<p>One part opportunity - I&#x27;ve never had an opportunity to do curling, but I&#x27;ve played football and basketball. If my parents were world class martial artists, I&#x27;d probably be pretty good at martial arts.<p>One part practice and experience - a good amount of skill acquisition can only come from doing and refining that skill. You can read about how to run long distances, but at some point you just have to put in the miles. The more you do, the more you learn.<p>One part obsession - to be the best in the world, you have to have a ridiculous amount of determination. Most people don&#x27;t have that for most of what they do. The ones who reach the highest levels tend to go beyond determination to obsession. Read about how Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan practiced and prepared and you realize that they weren&#x27;t just doing &quot;deliberate practice&quot;, they were obsessed with greatness and that obsession drove them beyond what anyone else was willing to do.<p>One part luck - even if everything else aligns you can get hurt, something else could sideline your career, you might fight a drug addiction or have family problems or an illness. Also, being lucky enough to get certain opportunities come your way at the right time often plays a big factor.<p>When you have all of those things come together you have something special. We can all recognize it simply because it&#x27;s rare.<p>When we try and reduce everything down to a simple idea like &quot;deliberate practice&quot; that might sell a lot of books, or make for interesting papers, it really doesn&#x27;t tell the whole story.<p>I think the human mind wants to reduce complexity to simple things because it makes the story we tell ourselves about the world easier to understand, but it&#x27;s the complexity that makes it all so fascinating in the first place.
agumonkeyalmost 11 years ago
I suck at music. But I suck 1000x more when I started. I love the enlightenment phases a non-genius like me goes through when he passes a landmark. First swing, first rubato .. Even without excellence, it&#x27;s totally worth it.
parasightalmost 11 years ago
It would be interesting to know a way to pick the skills one can excel in. 10000 hours of deliberate practice is a huge investment. I&#x27;d rather invest it in something I can excel in.
sidcoolalmost 11 years ago
The discussion here sort of disheartens me. Does it mean that I will be what I was born with? I would like to believe otherwise as it gives hope to achieve greatness, in spite of it not being in my genes.
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sp3000almost 11 years ago
Why can&#x27;t we just admit that some people are born with certain genetic traits that allow them to excel in certain fields? Practice would accentuate those gifts and is vitally important, but let&#x27;s not pretend everyone is capable of everything if they just practiced more.<p>Hell, even the ability to commit to extended periods of practice requires certain genetic ability. Most people are not born with the ability to hyperfocus like Bill Gates and work for 24 hours straight like he was able to do during the early days of Microsoft.<p>We accept ADHD has genetic components, and so the ability to focus for extended periods of time (which is what practice entails) is inherently easier for certain people.
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caster_cpalmost 11 years ago
I really, really thought that the article contained practical tips for excel, the MS Office Excel
spaldingwellalmost 11 years ago
That&#x27;s because being a master at something requires something science can&#x27;t quantify: you need to care.<p>I don&#x27;t mean pedestrian caring. I mean a deep, rich relationship between you and what it is you practice. That caring translates into focus, attention, deliberation etc.<p>&quot;Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.&quot; - Albert Einstein<p>(PS - I&#x27;m hinting at Heideggers phenomenology here. You can watch a great documentary introduction to it here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-rmGy9gWvE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1-rmGy9gWvE</a>)