TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Artificial sweeteners linked to glucose intolerance

412 pointsby bensedatover 10 years ago

33 comments

biotover 10 years ago
I like how all the people who benefit from artificial sweeteners are refuting something which the study doesn&#x27;t claim. For example:<p><pre><code> &quot;The International Sweeteners Association (ISA) says it strongly refutes the claims made in the study: &#x27;There is a broad body of scientific evidence which clearly demonstrates that low-calorie sweeteners are not associated with an increased risk of obesity and diabetes as they do not have an effect on appetite, blood glucose levels or weight gain.&#x27;&quot; </code></pre> It&#x27;s true that artificial sweeteners have no immediate effect on appetite, blood glucose levels, nor weight gain. None of these are claims made by the study. Everyone is refuting the immediate effects of artificial sweeteners. The study claims that <i>after</i> consuming artificial sweeteners, if you then consume something naturally sweet, the prior consumption of an artificial sweetener alters your glucose tolerance levels.<p>It&#x27;s the equivalent of saying that removing all the trees from around rivers has no effect on fish population because clearly fish don&#x27;t live in trees. But it&#x27;s the secondary effects of this which such a statement ignores: the increase in soil erosion impacting water quality, change in water temperature due to having more direct sunlight, and so on.<p>Also:<p><pre><code> &quot;&#x27;Decades of clinical research shows that low-calorie sweeteners have been found to aid weight-control when part of an overall healthy diet, and assist with diabetes management,&#x27; says Gavin Partington of the British Soft Drinks Association.&quot; </code></pre> This has little meaning without having a reference point to compare the results to. If the study is correct, take one group of people who use diet soft drinks with an overall healthy diet and compare it to another group of people who consume the same overall healthy diet but drink water instead of diet soft drinks, and the group that drinks water should have a better glucose tolerance response than the diet soft drink group.
评论 #8332688 未加载
评论 #8332615 未加载
评论 #8332395 未加载
评论 #8333949 未加载
nostromoover 10 years ago
Here&#x27;s a nice write up about the results: <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329872.600-artificial-sweeteners-linked-to-glucose-intolerance.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newscientist.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;mg22329872.600-artificia...</a><p>Note that the mice were given the human equivalent of 18 to 19 cans of diet soda a day.
评论 #8331895 未加载
评论 #8331820 未加载
评论 #8331855 未加载
评论 #8332107 未加载
skueover 10 years ago
For those not aware, other studies have shown that consuming diet soda may actually increase the chance of obesity. So that is not necessarily news. If you are curious, here is a pretty good study (full text):<p><a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2008.284/full" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;10.1038&#x2F;oby.2008.284&#x2F;full</a><p>More recently, studies have tried to determine whether there is a satiety or protein mechanism that can explain this, whereas this new study demonstrates that gut flora may play a role.<p>This needs to be confirmed, and there may still be other mechanisms at play as well, but it is interesting.<p>(Disclaimer: I do have a healthcare background, but am not a researcher in this field. Would be happy to hear more from anyone who is.)
评论 #8332155 未加载
评论 #8332173 未加载
评论 #8332121 未加载
jimrandomhover 10 years ago
The headline is suspicious, but unfortunately, this article is paywalled, so I can&#x27;t tell what&#x27;s really going on. The main problem with the headline is that it lumps together &quot;artificial sweeteners&quot; as a category, when that is in fact a pretty widely varied class of molecules.
评论 #8331953 未加载
mratzloffover 10 years ago
FDA acceptable daily intake (ADI) for aspartame is 50 mg per kg of body mass.[0] For an individual 180 pounds, that&#x27;s about 82 kg. That means his ADI is 4100 mg. Aspartame in popular diet sodas is between 50 and 125 mg.[1]<p>You&#x27;d have to drink A LOT of diet soda to reach these levels.<p>[0] <a href="http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/aspartame" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cancer.org&#x2F;cancer&#x2F;cancercauses&#x2F;othercarcinogens&#x2F;a...</a><p>[1] <a href="http://static.diabetesselfmanagement.com/pdfs/DSM0310_012.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;static.diabetesselfmanagement.com&#x2F;pdfs&#x2F;DSM0310_012.pd...</a>
评论 #8335142 未加载
sadfaceunreadover 10 years ago
This is an impressive piece of work but I worry that a larger amount of work is needed in the relationship between glucose intolerance, diabetes and metabolic syndromes in general. The fact that glucose intolerance is induced by a high sugar diet and leads towards a path of clinical outcomes ending in diabetes, doesn&#x27;t necessarily indicate that glucose intolerance developed via artificial sweetener consumption is indicative of being on the same clinical pathways towards metabolic syndrome and diabetes.
themgtover 10 years ago
I&#x27;d be curious if they tried this study with xylitol. I chew xylitol gum for dental health and from my understanding it&#x27;s not thought to contribute to metabolic problems in reasonable quantities:<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol#Diabetes" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Xylitol#Diabetes</a>
评论 #8331835 未加载
评论 #8331768 未加载
评论 #8331692 未加载
评论 #8331883 未加载
sp332over 10 years ago
Does this mean diabetes could (in some cases) be caused by gut bacteria? Can we reduce diabetes risk factors with targeted antibiotics that attack certain glucose-intolerance-causing bacteria?
评论 #8332109 未加载
评论 #8333812 未加载
评论 #8333295 未加载
kensover 10 years ago
This result seems pretty strange to me - why would artificial sweeteners affect bacteria&#x27;s metabolism in this way?<p>It seems like a bizarre coincidence that bacteria would react in the same way to three different sweeteners, unless they have receptors that happen to match human taste receptors (which also seems unlikely). In other words, to bacteria these sweeteners should just seem like unrelated random chemicals.<p>(I read the Nature paper - most of it looks at saccharin since that had the strongest response, but all three artificial sweeteners caused marked glucose intolerance.)
评论 #8332543 未加载
评论 #8332208 未加载
kazinatorover 10 years ago
This seems misleading.<p>If you go through the graphs and results, what emerges is that only the sweetener saccharin has that altering effect on the gut bacteria. I cannot find among the results any claim that the other NAS that were studied (sucralose and aspartame) have the effect.<p>The thing is that saccharin is not widely used any more. If saccharin is found to be harmful, that is nice to know, but not highly relevant.
blackbagboysover 10 years ago
The New Scientist article notes that four of the seven human subjects who consumed three to four sachets of sweetener a day saw a significant change in their gut bacteria.<p>As someone who has consumed significantly more than that for a very long time, my question would be, did their gut flora reconstitute itself after they stopped using the sweetener? And if not, how could you go about repopulating your microbiome short of a stool sample?
评论 #8332259 未加载
评论 #8335316 未加载
评论 #8332254 未加载
oomkillerover 10 years ago
This seems very misleading. The abstract (available without paywall) mentions a group of sweeteners, whereas the findings seem to show that only saccharin has these negative effects. I feel like NAS are probably bad, but without evidence to support it they should not claim that in the abstract.
rcthompsonover 10 years ago
For some biological context, we have taste receptors in our digestive tracts identical or nearly identical to those on our tongue, only the ones in our digestive tract are not hooked directly to sensory neurons, but instead trigger endocrine signals and such. Since the receptors are identical, then anything that tastes sweet on your tongue will activate these receptors as well. If I recall my metabolism course correctly, studies have found that artificial sweeteners can trigger insulin release through these receptors in the same way as real sugar (leading to possible hypoglycemia as your body compensates for a rush of sugar that never comes).<p>So basically, I have no trouble believing that artificial sweeteners can have many of the same long-term health effects as excessive consumption of real sugar, since they&#x27;re already known to have many of the same short-term effects, including effects on insulin regulation.
leeover 10 years ago
So given a choice, between Diet Soda vs. Normal Soda, what would be worse for your overall health?<p>I imagine even with increased glucose intolerance, you&#x27;re still better off choosing Diet?
评论 #8332288 未加载
评论 #8332033 未加载
评论 #8333619 未加载
评论 #8333713 未加载
评论 #8338271 未加载
评论 #8332017 未加载
voidlogicover 10 years ago
I&#x27;m not really surprised Saccharin isn&#x27;t great for you personally- but this isn&#x27;t so damning there are many other artificial sweeteners to choose from.<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_substitute#Artificial_sugar_substitutes" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sugar_substitute#Artificial_su...</a><p>I&#x27;d of course like to see them all studied in this manner.
mladenkovacevicover 10 years ago
I hope this doesn&#x27;t hold true for stevia as well :&#x2F;
评论 #8332110 未加载
评论 #8332626 未加载
mcmanciniover 10 years ago
Overall, this was a nicely done study. The microbiome is fascinating and an exciting area of research.<p>One criticism however would be that the dose of artificial sweetener tested was atypically high.<p>It&#x27;ll be neat to see further research into the cause of variable responses of the subjects to the artificial sweeteners.
评论 #8331955 未加载
pistleover 10 years ago
The industry takeaway should be to try to isolate the bacteria that play the secondary part in the glucose resistance, then put ANOTHER additive in the drinks to kill that bacteria, then sell a more expensive NEW zero calorie drink?<p>People like sweet. Let&#x27;s make sweet safe.
duschang27over 10 years ago
Abstract can be found here.<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature13793.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;nature&#x2F;journal&#x2F;vaop&#x2F;ncurrent&#x2F;full&#x2F;natu...</a>
raverbashingover 10 years ago
This raises more questions than it answers I think (which is a good thing)<p>1 - Is there such thing as a &quot;sweet base&quot;? Our tongues perceive sweeteners as sweet (duh) but it seems it mimics sugar in a way for bacteria as well.<p>2 - From the article &quot;Wiping out the rodents&#x27; gut bacteria using antibiotics abolished all the effects of glucose intolerance in the mice. In other words, no bacteria, no problem regulating glucose levels.&quot;<p>Soooo... Bacteria affects absorption of glucose? They consume it? They change the intestinal PH? Or something else?
driverdanover 10 years ago
Can someone post the full paper? The charts shown at the bottom seem to contradict some of their conclusions and implications. For example, some of the sweeteners seemed to result in lower chow consumption and increased energy expenditure. That would be a positive effect that isn&#x27;t mentioned in the abstract.
SCHiMover 10 years ago
Can anybody explain or guess what the consequences of this intolerance are or could be?
评论 #8331740 未加载
评论 #8331930 未加载
FranOntanayaover 10 years ago
Do they compare pure sweetener diet with pure sugar diet calorie per calorie, and sweetness units per sweetness units? Sweeteners are still caloric, the point is that they provide the same sweetness for less calories.
WesleyRourkeover 10 years ago
Raised insulin levels are much more complicated than we once thought. You can get an insulin response from artificial sweeteners just swished in your mouth and spat out. Solution, eat real food when you can
评论 #8331783 未加载
devindotcomover 10 years ago
Doesn&#x27;t seem so strange - if you create a sugar deficit in your body by significantly reducing your intake, wouldn&#x27;t you expect the body to be more responsive to sugars when it encounters them?
评论 #8332685 未加载
dbboltonover 10 years ago
Now let&#x27;s see a human study where people who consume those sweeteners, eat carbohydrates in moderation, and exercise regularly are still at increased risk for diabetes.
Dirlewangerover 10 years ago
&quot;metabolic abnormalities&quot;<p>Anyone know if they go into these into the paper? Really want to know what else is in the paper; I chew way too much sugar-free gum.
评论 #8334563 未加载
评论 #8331733 未加载
评论 #8331838 未加载
coldcodeover 10 years ago
People rarely consider how what you eat affects your microflora which then affects various other systems and may even affect your desire to consume.
评论 #8331978 未加载
评论 #8331790 未加载
louwrentiusover 10 years ago
The maximum dose is quite high, but does the effect also occurs when consuming more sane dosage a day?
tokenadultover 10 years ago
I&#x27;m paywalled out of seeing the whole article until I try a workaround (after which I may expand this comment), but I think we can all see the abstract of the article if we follow the link kindly submitted here. Yet some questions in other comments raise issues that are already responded to by the article abstract. Here is the full text of the article abstract available in the free view at the link:<p>&quot;Non-caloric artificial sweeteners (NAS) are among the most widely used food additives worldwide, regularly consumed by lean and obese individuals alike. NAS consumption is considered safe and beneficial owing to their low caloric content, yet supporting scientific data remain sparse and controversial. Here we demonstrate that consumption of commonly used NAS formulations drives the development of glucose intolerance through induction of compositional and functional alterations to the intestinal microbiota. These NAS-mediated deleterious metabolic effects are abrogated by antibiotic treatment, and are fully transferrable to germ-free mice upon faecal transplantation of microbiota configurations from NAS-consuming mice, or of microbiota anaerobically incubated in the presence of NAS. We identify NAS-altered microbial metabolic pathways that are linked to host susceptibility to metabolic disease, and demonstrate similar NAS-induced dysbiosis and glucose intolerance in healthy human subjects. Collectively, our results link NAS consumption, dysbiosis and metabolic abnormalities, thereby calling for a reassessment of massive NAS usage.&quot;<p>AFTER EDIT: After reading all the comments in this thread to the time of this edit, I see that some participants here disagree entirely with how I commented at first (as above). I note their opinion with interest and say here for the record simply that I saw previous comments that raised questions about information that is available in the article abstract for all of us to read. I meanwhile did find my workaround to get the full text of the article (I have library access with journal subscriptions for one aspect of my work, which is rather slow and buggy) and from the full article text I see that the experimental approach the researchers tried--feeding mice with the artificial sweetener to see if that changed gut microbiota in the mice, and then transferring the gut microbiota to other mice--did indeed bring about clinical signs consistent with the idea that the sweetener itself might cause related clinical signs in human beings.<p>&quot;To test whether the microbiota role is causal, we performed faecal transplantation experiments, by transferring the microbiota configuration from mice on normal-chow diet drinking commercial saccharin or glucose (control) into normal-chow-consuming germ-free mice (Extended Data Fig. 1e). Notably, recipients of microbiota from mice consuming commercial saccharin exhibited impaired glucose tolerance as compared to control (glucose) microbiota recipients, determined 6 days following transfer (P &lt; 0.03, Fig. 1e and Extended Data Fig. 2e). Transferring the microbiota composition of HFD-consuming mice drinking water or pure saccharin replicated the glucose intolerance phenotype (P &lt; 0.004, Fig. 1f and Extended Data Fig. 2f). Together, these results establish that the metabolic derangements induced by NAS consumption are mediated by the intestinal microbiota.&quot;<p>This preliminary finding, which of course needs to be replicated, has caused alarm in the industry, according to the link participant nostromo kindly shared in this thread.[1] There is epidemiological signal that human beings who consume a lot of artificial sweeteners are not especially healthy people compared to people who consume few. Teasing out the mechanism that may underly that observational finding will take more research, but this is important research to get right.<p>&quot;To study the functional consequences of NAS consumption, we performed shotgun metagenomic sequencing of faecal samples from before and after 11 weeks of commercial saccharin consumption, compared to control mice consuming either glucose or water. To compare relative species abundance, we mapped sequencing reads to the human microbiome project reference genome database16. In agreement with the 16S rRNA analysis, saccharin treatment induced the largest changes in microbial relative species abundance (Fig. 2a, Supplementary Table 2; F-test P value &lt; 10−10). These changes are unlikely to be an artefact of horizontal gene transfer or poorly covered genomes, because changes in relative abundance were observed across much of the length of the bacterial genomes, as exemplified by one overrepresented (Bacteroides vulgatus, Extended Data Fig. 7a) and one underrepresented species (Akkermansia muciniphila, Extended Data Fig. 7b).&quot;<p>The authors sum up their experimental findings by writing<p>&quot;In summary, our results suggest that NAS consumption in both mice and humans enhances the risk of glucose intolerance and that these adverse metabolic effects are mediated by modulation of the composition and function of the microbiota. Notably, several of the bacterial taxa that changed following NAS consumption were previously associated with type 2 diabetes in humans13, 20, including over-representation of Bacteroides and under-representation of Clostridiales. Both Gram-positive and Gram-negative taxa contributed to the NAS-induced phenotype (Fig. 1a, b) and were enriched for glycan degradation pathways (Extended Data Fig. 6), previously linked to enhanced energy harvest (Fig. 2c, d)11, 24. This suggests that elaborate inter-species microbial cooperation may functionally orchestrate the gut ecosystem and contribute to vital community activities in diverging environmental conditions (for example, normal-chow versus high-fat dietary conditions). In addition, we show that metagenomes of saccharin-consuming mice are enriched with multiple additional pathways previously shown to associate with diabetes mellitus23 or obesity11 in mice and humans, including sphingolipid metabolism and lipopolysaccharide biosynthesis25.&quot;<p>There have been a lot of questions raised in this thread, and indeed the article itself raises plenty of interesting questions to follow up with further research. When discussing a new preliminary research finding like this, we can work outward from the article abstract to news reports about the article findings to the article text itself to focus on the known issues and define clearly the unknown issues. I appreciate comments from anyone here about how I can help contribute to more informed and thoughtful, in Hacker News sense of &quot;thoughtful,&quot;[2] discussion of research on human nutrition.<p>Other comments here asked why we should respect journal paywalls at all, and the basic answer to that question is a basic principle of economics, that people respond to incentives. (That&#x27;s the same reason you don&#x27;t found a startup that you expect will always lose money for all time.) <i>Nature</i> is one of the most-cited scientific journals in the world, so it&#x27;s a big coup to be published there, and that means <i>Nature</i> gets a lot of submissions. To slog through all the submissions with adequate editorial work does cost money. (I used to be a junior editor of an academic journal.) The article gets more attention (it has received a lot of attention in this thread) if it is in a better rather than worse journal. Some journals are lousy enough to publish anything, and those journals beg for submissions, but <i>Nature</i> can charge for subscriptions and impose paywalls (which expire for government-funded research, with author sharing of author manuscripts on free sites usually being mandatory after a year embargo) because what it publishes is often worth reading (as here).<p>AFTER ONE MORE EDIT:<p>I see that while I was reading the fine article from <i>Nature</i> submitted to open a thread, my comment is now part of a thread that is about the <i>New Scientist</i> popular article on the same research finding. This will be confusing to readers newly visiting this thread. The title of the <i>Nature</i> article is &quot;Artificial sweeteners induce glucose intolerance by altering the gut microbiota&quot; (the Hacker News thread title I saw, per the usual rule of using the article headline as the submission headline) and the article DOI is<p>10.1038&#x2F;nature13793<p>for the full article published online (behind a paywall) on 17 September 2014.<p>[1] <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329872.600-artificial-sweeteners-linked-to-glucose-intolerance.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newscientist.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;mg22329872.600-artificia...</a><p>[2] &quot;The most important principle on HN, though, is to make thoughtful comments. Thoughtful in both senses: both civil and substantial.&quot;<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newswelcome.html</a>
评论 #8332280 未加载
评论 #8331965 未加载
评论 #8331989 未加载
Someone1234over 10 years ago
So the public funds studies, which they give to journals for free, who then sell access for $3.99&#x2F;view. I&#x27;m really not sure this was the &quot;free exchange of ideas&quot; which science is based upon.<p>Even the New York times only charges $3.75&#x2F;week (the nature price is per article&#x2F;view NOT per week, it would be $4.14 if their $199 plan was weekly) and the NYT has to actually pay journalists to create the content. Nature gets all their content for free.<p>So what are Nature&#x27;s expenses anyway? They no longer have to type set as it is just an identical PDF which is sent to them. Is hosting and management of the web-site really so costly that it is $3.99&#x2F;article?
评论 #8331810 未加载
评论 #8331813 未加载
评论 #8332035 未加载
jimhefferonover 10 years ago
Diet soda makes you fat.
kolevover 10 years ago
Sweeteners are suspected to have downed the Roman empire (via lead poisoning), so, learn from history and just change your taste norm and you&#x27;ll live longer and happier. I had a sweet tooth once and it took about a couple of years to even not being able to tolerate it. The weak find excuses, the strong adapt and improve. Just reject anything with refined sugar or fancy new &quot;healthier&quot; sweeteners - do you like sugar more than tomorrow? Cane sugar is not healthier than HCFS (it might be just slightly less harmful). Agave &quot;Nectar&quot; actually has significantly more fructose than HCFS... and it&#x27;s not unprocessed as claimed, and so on. Stevia is slightly different, the plant has other benefits, but I wouldn&#x27;t ever use the adulterated version (Reb A or whatever). Hack your taste buds, hackers!
评论 #8332120 未加载