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Girls Get Better Grades Than Boys

50 pointsby throwaway344over 10 years ago

16 comments

minimaxirover 10 years ago
I recently did an analysis of Harvard and MIT&#x27;s MOOCs to determine which gender gets the better grades in classes. (full post: <a href="http://minimaxir.com/2014/07/online-class-charts/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;minimaxir.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;online-class-charts&#x2F;</a>)<p>Turns out, there&#x27;s no statistically significant difference between male and female grades. <a href="http://minimaxir.com/img/online-class-charts/gender-grade.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;minimaxir.com&#x2F;img&#x2F;online-class-charts&#x2F;gender-grade.pn...</a>
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yummyfajitasover 10 years ago
tl;dr; Girls work harder than boys and are more diligent about getting things done. Awesome for them. What&#x27;s the problem?<p>The article does raise one real issue - grades in school are based on more on obeying arbitrary rules than on actual mastery of the knowledge. That&#x27;s a problem worth fixing. But it&#x27;s a problem worth fixing because grades are measuring the wrong thing, and it&#x27;s worth fixing regardless of it&#x27;s affects on statistical gender disparities.<p>But I guess &quot;modern grading systems measure the wrong thing&quot; is far less of a clickbait topic.
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gphover 10 years ago
This article brings up an important point about our education system. How much is it about teaching a subject versus teaching you how to work.<p>I always did well on tests and in any class I didn&#x27;t totally hate I felt like I gained the knowledge I needed to. However, I never did all the homework. Hated it. Most of it felt like busy work, or just plain unimportant.<p>Not that I think self-discipline is worthless. It is a very important life skill. But they don&#x27;t really teach you how to be self-disciplined so much as attempt to force it on to you by making your grade dependent on a ton of extra work. I like the idea of splitting grades into knowledge and self-discipline like the Minnesota school did.
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ps4fanboyover 10 years ago
I wonder if this has anything to with the massive decline in male teacher population.
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fdsaryover 10 years ago
As a man who left school not that many years ago, I&#x27;m amazed how well I feel this describes the situation back then. I remember being frustrated by grades being all about who (I then thought) manipulated the teacher best by acting like a &quot;Good Boy&#x2F;Girl&quot;. By being neat and by being timely rather than the one who knew what the grade requirements asked of the students.<p>I wonder, is the article true or does it just appeal to my feelings?
cafardover 10 years ago
It seemed to me many years ago that there was an odd pattern in the schools, perhaps exaggerated in Catholic schools, but probably present in the public schools also. In the earlier grades, the girls, who sat still better, had better small-muscle coordination, and were more verbal sooner, pulled down the As, while the boys did more poorly. Somewhere in the middle school years, neat handwriting counted for less, and the boys started to catch up on other fronts. The girls, not always unwillingly, fell back. A cousin of mine infuriated me by saying that she got Bs in high school--boys didn&#x27;t like girls who got As.<p>But, as they say on HN, the plural of anecdote is not science.
cyphunkover 10 years ago
<p><pre><code> She’s found that little ones who are destined to do well in a typical 21st century kindergarten class are those who manifest good self-regulation. </code></pre> The first question is what determines &quot;doing well&quot;? This was not clear to me from the article. Is it grades? High-School completion? Entrance exam levels? Completing University? Getting a PhD? Making their first billion $?<p>For a very long time (40+ years) we know that girls have done better in grades and boys have done better in standardised admission tests. The quality of &quot;good self-regulation&quot; others may describe negatively as a false reward for &quot;girls keep quiet&quot;. In open format classes boys dominate and demand attention. Teachers may be rewarding girls &quot;self-regulation&quot; because they are more considerate of the teacher and fellow students. But as a result teachers give more attention to the students that are worse at &quot;self-regulation&quot;. see: &quot;Failing At Fairness: How Our Schools Cheat Girls&quot; from 1995<p><pre><code> Kenney-Benson and some fellow academics provide evidence that the stress many girls experience in test situations can artificially lower their performance, giving a false reading of their true abilities. </code></pre> The Kenney-Benson study I believe is this one from 2006: <a href="http://news.illinois.edu/news/06/0220mathdivide.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.illinois.edu&#x2F;news&#x2F;06&#x2F;0220mathdivide.html</a><p>This field of study appears to me to be a mess.<p>Here is a study on the male grade crisis with a counter conclusion. Pretty much the similar research results but different conclusion and language:<p><pre><code> The researchers examined 369 samples from 308 studies, reflecting grades of 538,710 boys and 595,332 girls. ... The study reveals that recent claims of a “boy crisis,” with boys lagging behind girls in school achievement, are not accurate because girls’ grades have been consistently higher than boys’ across several decades with no significant changes in recent years, the authors wrote. http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apa.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;press&#x2F;releases&#x2F;2014&#x2F;04&#x2F;girls-grades.aspx</code></pre>
onewaystreetover 10 years ago
It&#x27;s been a while since I was in high school, but looking back I would say that this was true. It doesn&#x27;t surprise me when you factor in puberty and maturity (girls at that age tend to be more mature at least when it comes to school work). Boys also spend more of their time on extracurricular activities (sports).
fsk141over 10 years ago
Is anyone bothered that this has no references, seems like a nice helping of hearsay to me.
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j2kunover 10 years ago
If the difference is just by one year, as one of the studies suggests, why not shift grade&#x2F;age by one year for boys? So six year old boys will be kindergarten age with five year old girls, etc.?
donatjover 10 years ago
So much of school is based on blindly doing what you&#x27;re told and I think young boys have trouble doing what they&#x27;re told. I know I personally wanted to know the <i>reasoning</i> behind things. In the army they have to break young men down before they blindly follow orders.<p>Even as a nearly 30 something I don&#x27;t like being <i>told</i> what to do. Ask, don&#x27;t tell.<p>I know I could see this was pointless charade and would rather do something of actual value, whereas most of what you do in school is pointless busy work with no real educational value at all.
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graycatover 10 years ago
Well, the article is beginning to understand!<p>Some recently reported research (I apologize for lack of a reference) explains that already in the crib girls are paying attention to people and boys, to things.<p>Then what the OP is describing about differences in K through the early grades is essentially just that the girls are more interested in people, e.g., pleasing the teachers, and the boys are more interested in the material, at least if it has to do with things, which in those grades it mostly doesn&#x27;t.<p>In particular, of course the girls are <i>much</i> better <i>behaved</i> in class: From the crib, the girls are <i>much</i> better socially than the boys, and that means girls do better in groups, e.g., the social behavior in a classroom.<p>Next, in those early grades, the girls have much better verbal aptitude so do better at reading and writing, learning languages, etc.<p>Next, by paying more attention to people, girls have much better understanding of people in the fictional reading that is common and, thus, do better in that reading. Also the girls have much better understanding of emotions and, thus, better understand the emotional content of fictional readings. Also, as in D. Tannen, the girls are much more active in talking with their friends, i.e., their girlfriends, with gossip, and, thus, get still better at understanding people and social situations, including what is in the fictional readings, the classroom <i>social</i> dynamics, etc.<p>The OP also claimed that the girls are better at &quot;math&quot;, but here I start to question. Sure, for math in K-8 or so, the girls are much better because they have much better clerical accuracy and much better handwriting (better at getting the columns of digits lined up important for accuracy). And, again the girls are better at and more interested in pleasing the teachers.<p>And, with some teaching and grading styles, the girls might be able to seem better at math through grade 12 or so. It can continue to be a really big advantage to be really good at sensing how to please the teachers, and girls are better at that.<p>But my experience in math (and I was a math major in college and my Ph.D. is in applied math), really, for much of anything like real math, the girls are a big step down. Somehow they don&#x27;t <i>get it</i>; here maybe the main problem is lack of interest due to cultural stereotypes that girls are not supposed to concentrate on STEM subjects.<p>Last I heard, on the math SATs, the boys still do much better than the girls and, yes, on the verbal SATs the girls do better than the boys.<p>Then for the girls&#x2F;women along come marriage and babies, and then on average their ability to compete with boys&#x2F;men in most of more important work fades.
aidenn0over 10 years ago
Well we can always console the boys by telling them they&#x27;ll get paid more once they get a job.
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johngaltover 10 years ago
The general trend in education is less competition and less physical activity. Meanwhile there is more focus on educational minimums rather than maximums. If education was about the &#x27;highest score&#x27; rather than the &#x27;best average&#x27; you would see males doing better.
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DigitalSeaover 10 years ago
I find this incredibly sexist.<p>To say that girls worker harder than boys offends me greatly. These studies are never accurate and somewhat biased, and I think work ethic is something that can&#x27;t be averaged out like this. I don&#x27;t doubt a lot of girls out there do work harder than boys, but making statements like: &quot;<i>Girls succeed over boys in school because they are more apt to plan ahead, set academic goals, and put effort into achieving those goals.</i>&quot; is offensive and heavily typecasting all boys into the same category.<p>There are boys out there who put effort into planning and setting academic goals, because I am friends with many guys like this who care and put the effort in, I also know as many women who do the same. If this study were truth, why are there just as many male academics as there are female? If anything, I have seen more male academics than female (in my experience and field). Imagine if the effort that went into this study was put to better use, to help solve a problem or achieve a result that would benefit society? Studies like this are a waste of time.<p>I realise this is just a study and the whole point might be to highlight issues with school curriculum and have no sexist undertones, but at the same time, studies like this are relatively useless. The modern school system being completely broken to the point kids are falling behind is a very well known fact, and sadly, no study is going to change that anytime soon.<p>Maybe if we had less studies and more action on fixing things, then there wouldn&#x27;t be instances of boys getting left behind in the schooling system. Did it ever occur to those responsible for this study that maybe, just maybe, the system is actually broken? And maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with what sex you are? I feel like society already has enough issues when it comes to rampant sexism and gender equality without more fuel being thrown on the fire. All studies like this do is take a handful of people, average and collate the results and then proclaim they&#x27;ve made some kind of conclusive discovery that applies to everyone outside of the sample group. Unless this study leads to change or another longer and more conclusive study, the results mean nothing.<p>Regardless of what sex you are, nobody should be getting left behind. If it is true that boys learn differently to girls, then adjust the curriculum to make it more flexible for different learning styles. When I went to school I struggled, not because I am stupid or because I am a male, I struggled because the curriculum assumed everyone learns the same way and when I couldn&#x27;t fit myself within the mould, I got left behind and taught myself everything I needed to know. Everyone learns differently, we are not all the same.<p>Sorry for getting worked up, Studies like this do nothing to help resolve gender equality gaps whatsoever.
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andylover 10 years ago
This society rewards restraint and conformity. Then there are the mood-altering drugs. When my boys were in elementary school, the teachers wanted to drug them into compliance because they were &#x27;too competitive&#x27;. Nurse Ratchet lives.