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Ask HN: What should i answer to a question about salary?

34 pointsby xkarga00over 10 years ago
I am a fresh graduate trying to find a junior developer job. I often get asked in interviews how much i think i should be paid.<p>How can i know that? What is the best answer i can give so that i won&#x27;t overestimate and underestimate myself at the same time?

22 comments

DanielStraightover 10 years ago
This is pretty much the definitive answer as far as I&#x27;m concerned:<p><a href="http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;23&#x2F;salary-negotiation&#x2F;</a>
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davismwflover 10 years ago
You should know what is fair, and you can get some good feedback likely if you provide your geographic area.<p>In general, when negotiating salary make an employer put a price tag on you first, then if it is fair, you can go for it or negotiate a little more, ask for extra time off etc. If it is a low offer, they may be testing you to see if you know the market, don&#x27;t be afraid to come back at a fair market value for new grad in your area.<p>And don&#x27;t accept an offer below market with some unwritten promise to increase your pay if you do XYZ. That isn&#x27;t fair to you and the employer is trying to take advantage of you. If you get a fair offer and you ask for say $2k more, and they say well if you execute over the first 90 days with X Y Z and those are tangible real goals, not subjective, then that is reasonable. Just make sure it is in writing in the offer letter.
S_A_Pover 10 years ago
I would answer with &quot;I expect my salary to fall in line with the current market rate&quot; for wherever you live. I would put more of the impetus on them, because giving a number to them rarely works in your favor. I would also try to delay money talk until you are certain you want to work there and they want you to work there. As has been suggested if you want to get an idea of the current market rate glassdoor and other sites will help but may be sparse for your market.
JSeymourATLover 10 years ago
Research salaries in your local market via Indeed.com or Salary.com. As a benchmark, median entry-level developers in Boston are getting $63,500&gt; <a href="http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Software-Developer-I-Salary-Details-Boston-MA.aspx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;swz.salary.com&#x2F;SalaryWizard&#x2F;Software-Developer-I-Sala...</a><p>Answer: I&#x27;m happy to evaluate the entire compensation offer package if we get to that stage. I understand junior developers are getting in the range of low $60s-to-high $70s. *Then flip the question: Can you share with me what your compensation band is for this role?
philangistover 10 years ago
You have to give your location, otherwise any number you&#x27;re given is meaningless.. Making 60k&#x2F;yr as a junior developer in NYC is not the same as 60k&#x2F;yr in Montreal or Louisiana.
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psKamaover 10 years ago
I&#x27;m not sure how accurate it is for recent graduates but I would definitely give a try with salaryfairy.com. It is a platform that people try to guess salaries of other people anonymously basing on their resume. when you have enough number of guesses you will see how much you would worth in the market.
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ericbover 10 years ago
The best answer is to try and group your interviews and offers so you have a competitive situation. Talking to several recruiters at once can help with this.<p>You can almost always say you have an interview scheduled on (some day about 4 days away) that you&#x27;ve committed to, and attend whatever interviews you can. In a competitive situation, you should get market price. If a company wants you on Monday, regardless of what they say about the offer expiring, they will usually still want you on Friday, at least in this market. Also, when you start scheduling interviews, try and make them a few days out, so you can schedule more before then.
bowlofpetuniasover 10 years ago
Unlike what some suggest here: do NOT use public sources as reference points for salary negotiations. Virtual all of them come up with average salaries that are way, way lower than what most good developers could earn.<p>I strongly suspect these sites are being gamed. Either that, or the numbers are based on surveys that are mostly filled in by people that are worried about being underpaid (guess what, that means they probably are).
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eldelshellover 10 years ago
Check out what the standard for your profile using Job sites in your country that show salaries, or ask around in IRC.<p>Also make some calculations, and start with housing. Calculate your salary to be no less than 30% of this expense since it&#x27;s the one more critical and gives a good all around base which depends on your location. If you don&#x27;t pay for housing now, you&#x27;ll in the future, so better take that into account and save it in a bank.<p>Then give a range, say &quot;I&#x27;m in the X and Y range, but I would feel much more comfortable making Z&quot; where X&lt;Z&lt;Y, X is your lower limit and Y is the top of the line for what you&#x27;ve seen online.<p>Finally, don&#x27;t go into an interview talking about salaries unless the potential employer starts talking about it. They might find it rude on your part.<p>BTW, if you&#x27;re starting to look for jobs, this tool might help you (<a href="https://github.com/Eldelshell/JobHunter" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Eldelshell&#x2F;JobHunter</a>) &lt;plug shameless=&quot;true&quot;&#x2F;&gt;
bavcycover 10 years ago
Salary information is part of the negotiation for the job. Learn to negotiate and how to answer the question without answering the question.<p>Read &quot;Ask The Headhunter&#x27;s&quot; articles&#x2F;columns on salary negotiation for some background information.<p>If you say too large of number, you won&#x27;t be hired. If you say too low of number, then you either leave $$$ on the table or they wonder why your number is low.<p>I&#x27;ve asked &quot;are you offering me the job?&quot; If they say no, then I ask if we can continue to see if I fit. This did not always work well.<p>Someone on HN posted the link to the Noel Smith-Wenkle method which is a better method and it works well, I&#x27;ve used it more than once effectively.<p><a href="http://infohost.nmt.edu/~shipman/org/noel.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;infohost.nmt.edu&#x2F;~shipman&#x2F;org&#x2F;noel.html</a>
ap22213over 10 years ago
While it&#x27;s good to understand the market prices for your skills, negotiation is a lot about understanding the other party&#x27;s goals and needs and best-guessing their maximum price. They will have a maximum price in their head. So, determine that maximum price.<p>Assume that since you&#x27;ve gotten to the negotiation phase, you&#x27;ve exceeded their expectations.<p>Ask, &#x27;how many people are you hiring?&#x27; If it&#x27;s more than one, at the same position, then they may have more demand. It also may imply that their budget for hiring is above average.<p>Ask, &#x27;how difficult has your interviewing been?&#x27; If it&#x27;s been difficult, and you&#x27;ve reached this stage, then your in a better position for negotiation.<p>Ask, &#x27;what have been your main criteria in hiring?&#x27; If it points to a rare skill that you have or some background experience or knowledge that is unique, then you&#x27;re in a better position.<p>Ask, &#x27;are there any other candidates that you&#x27;re interviewing, and how do I measure up?&#x27; If there are no other candidates, and&#x2F;or you&#x27;re the best candidate that they have, then you&#x27;re in a better position.<p>Ask, &#x27;do you have upcoming milestones or deadlines?&#x27; If so, then may have higher immediate demand.<p>Ask, &#x27;what are your goals in hiring me?&#x27; If they want to put you to work immediately, then you&#x27;re in a better position. If they are primarily interested in grooming you, they may have more patience to hire.<p>Ask, &#x27;who approves the hiring, and are you able to hire me today?&#x27; If someone else approves, it may be a harder negotiation. If they can hire you immediately, then you&#x27;re in a better position.<p>Finally, don&#x27;t set your price, first. If they ask, &#x27;what is your price?&#x27;, ask them &#x27;what is your typical range for this type of position?&#x27; Get them to offer their price first because it&#x27;s always on the lower end of what their range is. Then, consider your position. Ask for something that is slightly outrageous. For example, let&#x27;s say you determine that you&#x27;re in a good position. They offer you 80,000. Say that you were thinking more in the 120,000 range. Read their reaction to that. If they seem offended, say &#x27;but, that can be negotiable, based on your benefits, etc.&#x27; Then, talk to them about the other benefits of the position, and come down slightly. But, once your initial price is set, that will be the baseline for further discussions.<p>Always come to the table with as much information as possible.<p>Always ask for add-ons. Ask for more non-financial benefits. Ask for more vacation. Ask for a more flexible schedule. If it&#x27;s a big company, you&#x27;re not in a good position to ask for extras, however.<p>Tell them that you&#x27;ll give them an answer very soon, and set a specific date. It will show that you&#x27;re serious. If you plan wisely, you can have multiple offers from different companies at similar time. Use these other offers to both gauge the demand and to play each offer against other offers.<p>And, remember, it&#x27;s always supply and demand.
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josefrescoover 10 years ago
Since you&#x27;re fresh out of school, and don&#x27;t have a work experience to create value...<p>Calculate your cost of living and use that to determine what you need to not only survive, but thrive enough that you&#x27;re able to be productive at work. A good boss does not want an employee who is stressed because they cannot make ends meet at home.<p>You can probably find some good personal income&#x2F;financial tools online to help you determine what your salary <i>should</i> be given your costs.<p>While it&#x27;s common, the tactic of asking an employee what they think they &quot;deserve&quot; is a rather aggressive (IMHO) negotiating technique. Keep that in mind when dealing with management&#x2F;ownership in the future.
lettergramover 10 years ago
This depends, I would recommend checking out Glassdoor for the position you are applying.<p>Review the average salary, multiply that salary by 1.2 (increasing that salary by 20%), and that is what you should tell your employer.<p>Why 20% you ask? Well, Glassdoor has data from several years prior, meaning the average will be lower than the current average. For example, I was offered 40% more than the Glassdoor average for the same position.
pacofvfover 10 years ago
find out your salary range where you live, ask 20% more but tell them that your are willing to negotiate or accept less if it&#x27;s the &quot;right&quot; job. If they really want you, you get to keep that extra 20% , if you are just ok then you get a market rate which is a good thing too. If they are not willing to pay the market rate then maybe is a good thing to not work with them.
bytelayerover 10 years ago
In negotiation, always, always ask the other party to name a figure first. Then you add 15% to that figure as your counter-offer for a salary.
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mga226over 10 years ago
Other people have pointed to patio11&#x27;s definitive answer. Another awesome resource on this topic (with albeit similar advice) is Ramit Sethi. Start here:<p><a href="http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/salary-negotiation/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;salary-negotiation...</a>
ISNITover 10 years ago
My first job (when I was 16) was as a software developer for a start-up in London. I was asked, panicked and said £25k. He seemed totally okay with it.<p>I guess it depends on the company&#x2F;person employing you, along with how persuasive you can be :).
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Igglybooover 10 years ago
Really depends on location, 100k&#x2F;yr in the midwest would be insanely high for a junior developer but in SF it wouldn&#x27;t be unreasonable.
mailshanxover 10 years ago
The HR lady asked me what is my minimum salary threshold, below which i wouldn&#x27;t be willing to go. How does one respond to that? Note that the HR interview was my first contact with the company: the tech interviews had not even begun yet.
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fecakover 10 years ago
There are a few ways to try and discover what your market rate is.<p>The first method is a set of websites or statistics that you can find pretty easily. You&#x27;ll hear Glassdoor and Salary.com as a couple examples. Some schools might have data on their past graduates. I know that Carnegie Mellon [1] publishes their data, which includes the employer a graduate joined, the location, and some compensation data.<p>Unfortunately, much of what you&#x27;ll find is anonymously self-reported, and when people self-report salary information they are probably more likely to exaggerate up than exaggerate down.<p>A second method of getting numbers on market rate is from talking to people. For you, that may be other graduates who have already landed jobs or people that graduated last year who may be willing to share what they were paid. Recruiters who work local markets are also a good resource for this information, as they actually see the job offers and are likely to have more accurate figures than the self-reported data seen on salary websites.<p>As for overestimating or underestimating, most people here are going to tell you to never give a number first. Negotiation is described as having a winner and a loser, and if you don&#x27;t get the maximum amount someone was willing to spend than you lost. There isn&#x27;t a clear way to determine how much someone would have spent, so approaching negotiation in this win&#x2F;lose manner isn&#x27;t all that useful.<p>Someone who knows the market rate for their experience and skills is in a much better position, and someone with a long track record of successful employment that knows their market rate is completely set and more able to use tactics in negotiating that are being offered to you here in this thread. Unfortunately, you (as an entry-level candidate) won&#x27;t typically have that same amount of leverage or power in negotiations, as entry-level candidates are generally considered more homogenous.<p>In other words, if a company finds an entry-level candidate being somewhat &#x27;difficult&#x27; (for lack of a better word), they may take the attitude that there may be 10 other entry-level candidates who won&#x27;t be. I&#x27;m not saying you shouldn&#x27;t negotiate - in many cases you should, and in some cases you shouldn&#x27;t (most obvious being when a company offers you what you requested or even more than you requested).<p>Last bit of advice - if and when you give your number, don&#x27;t follow it with anything. Entry-level candidates have a tendency to state a number, and if there is even a few seconds of delay by the other party they add &quot;but that is negotiable&quot;. Don&#x27;t do that. There is an article on that a few weeks ago [2] that explains a bit more.<p>1 - <a href="http://www.cmu.edu/career/salaries-and-destinations/2014-survey/Post%20Graduation%20Survey%20Results%202014.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cmu.edu&#x2F;career&#x2F;salaries-and-destinations&#x2F;2014-sur...</a><p>2 - <a href="http://jobtipsforgeeks.com/2014/08/08/negotiable/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jobtipsforgeeks.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;08&#x2F;08&#x2F;negotiable&#x2F;</a>
julesover 10 years ago
$12.3 billion. What are you willing to pay?<p>It is a negotiation tactic. They know perfectly well what they are paying their other developers, what the market rate for that position is, and what they are willing to pay you. The only purpose of this question is to trap you into a low number, don&#x27;t fall for it.
maxafover 10 years ago
Go off the cost of living: decent enough apartment, cost of food, clothing, leisure items, cell phone&#x2F;Internet service, one vacation for the year, any books&#x2F;study materials&#x2F;courses you&#x27;d want to pay for yourself. Sum all that up, add 15% on top to give yourself room in case you&#x27;re forced to negotiate, and throw that number over the fence.<p>If they try to push you down lower, this isn&#x27;t the place for you: your cost of living is what it is, and forcing you to work for less than that is simply unfair. Keep looking for a better place.
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