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What the Tortoise Said to Achilles (1895)

49 pointsby brettover 10 years ago

3 comments

oskarthover 10 years ago
The Wikipedia page is worth reading: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Tortoise_Said_to_Achilles" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;What_the_Tortoise_Said_to_Achi...</a><p>Particularly this quote:<p><i>The Wittgensteinian philosopher Peter Winch discussed the paradox in The Idea of a Social Science and its Relation to Philosophy (1958), where he argued that the paradox showed that &quot;the actual process of drawing an inference, which is after all at the heart of logic, is something which cannot be represented as a logical formula ... Learning to infer is not just a matter of being taught about explicit logical relations between propositions; it is learning to do something&quot; (p. 57). Winch goes on to suggest that the moral of the dialogue is a particular case of a general lesson, to the effect that the proper application of rules governing a form of human activity cannot itself be summed up with a set of further rules, and so that &quot;a form of human activity can never be summed up in a set of explicit precepts&quot; (p. 53).</i>
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tunesmithover 10 years ago
Is the point here that the very structure of syllogism itself can be denied? That however inexorable a &quot;If A and B, then C&quot; argument is, someone else could always argue that it&#x27;s not quite valid yet? It kind of reminds me of the point made (turgidly, but still) by Yudkowsky in The Simple Truth[1] - sometimes you just have to throw up your hands and declare the counter-arguments specious.<p>[1] <a href="http://yudkowsky.net/rational/the-simple-truth" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;yudkowsky.net&#x2F;rational&#x2F;the-simple-truth</a>
hyp0over 10 years ago
Reading this story in Hofstadner&#x27;s GEB destroyed my ability to accept mathematical proofs as &quot;proven&quot;. I just don&#x27;t find them convincing; but more like using authorised forms o argument within an artificially stylised tradition (like English Literature). And I wonder if alien mathematics will reveal our mathematics as embarassingly parochial - and not the universal common ground usually assumed.<p>So, instead of proof, I have to fall back on intuition and working code, with their severe limitations.<p>However... studying mathematical proof has at times informed and grown my intuition, by revealing new ways to see a problem and new (bizarre and unintuitive) ways to decompose it.<p>I might have been better off never having seen this story.
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