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Leaving Academia (2013)

98 pointsby msvanover 10 years ago

22 comments

tensorover 10 years ago
The value in academia is not in the political benefits that it gives in getting a job or being recognized. If you are in it for fame and fortune, you are a fool.<p>I was in academia. Not just a grad student, but achieved the phd and did a post doc. I don&#x27;t regret any of it. It taught me many invaluable lessons, all of which have been useful in industry starting a company.<p>My impression of industry so far: they don&#x27;t get progress. They don&#x27;t get innovation. They have problems, but they they don&#x27;t understand them and are unable to commit resources to the procedures that are needed to solve them.<p>Only the very biggest of tech companies like Google, Palintir, Apple, Facebook, are able to tackle the really hard problem. These are the problems that you can not make an estimate for in terms of completion. The majority of industry will not even entertain this class of problem.<p>Academia, too, has a lot of problems. I left because of the publish or perish mentality. I liked to work on hard problems, and had some successes, but overall it is the numbers that matter not the difficulty. There are an equal number of politics in academia as in industry, though they are different in academia.<p>In industry, politics often involves a lot of incompetent people in high places following paper work procedures that do not support their supposed cause, while in academia it is more a lot of infighting over government grants and insultingly simple metrics like the number of papers published.<p>In short, the author of this post is full of ignorance, and I am only slightly less full of ignorance in that I haven&#x27;t achieved tenure in academia, and only have several years in industry helping to run a company. None the less, what I learned in academia in terms of the science of computing, it was invaluable.
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dgmdougover 10 years ago
Isn&#x27;t part of the problem that we place this artificial wall between academia and industry? I often found myself confused in this respect. I attained my PhD a number of years ago, and found this an invaluable experience, which has no doubt helped me to excel in industry, however I still meet people (developers and senior level executives especially) who think academia is about locking yourself in a room and writing stuff without building anything useful. Ironically, these are the same people who build products and code without surveying the field, understanding what is already out there and building on top of existing solutions. Their naivity and ignorance is such that they believe they are building something truly unique, and will get it right first time, every time.<p>It seems to me that we should stop standing on each side of the fence and looking down on each other, and start working together. We might actually achieve something great it if we do that.<p>Regards the OP, if it was the right time for him&#x2F;her to leave, that&#x27;s great. Nobody should continue on a path that they do not find fulfilling. It says nothing about academia, or industry though. It only reveals the feelings of the author.<p>The true travesty here, is that he&#x2F;she will find it extremely difficult to pick up that work again and find a place in a university if they change their mind in the future. Our system in the UK is broken, since you only get a single shot at academia -- unless of course you are independently wealthy.<p>Perhaps this is the cause of the divide. You are either in, or you are out -- and once you make your choice there is no going back.
navaitover 10 years ago
&gt;Maybe a handful, I said. And then I realized that there was no way I could work on that problem. Success in academia is measured in the number of citations your paper receives. What point is there in writing a paper that is only interesting to such a small audience?<p>I wanted to say at first that if he was in it for the sake of being a successful, high-impact researcher, he was in science for the wrong reasons. But really, unless you are one of those high-impact people, you aren&#x27;t getting tenure. I don&#x27;t feel like tenure is asking for much if you&#x27;re a hard worker who&#x27;s produced some novel results. I get that science is supposed to be about passion, but you can&#x27;t support a family on passion alone.<p>&gt; A career in academia would just require even more proving my worthiness...I&#x27;d constantly be evaluated. That&#x27;s not what I was looking for.<p>He&#x27;s in for a rude awakening. You&#x27;re only as good as your last envelope.
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sktrdieover 10 years ago
I find myself in the exact opposite situation. Been working for industry since I was 18 and am 28 now. Never got a degree. I&#x27;m tired of working in a consumer setting where everything has to be faster, better, more pleasing for the client. I&#x27;ve now moved to academia because I want to work on things that are foundation for other work and not always things that are immediately useful to people. However I see how he had enough of that always being examined environment, but in Industry you&#x27;ll also get examined, this time by a cranky costumer that wants a button a little more to the left, and who doesn&#x27;t have the professional skills to examine your work.
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cs702over 10 years ago
This is <i>terrible</i> in my view:<p><i>&quot;As a PhD student you get to choose some interesting problem and work on that, right? That&#x27;s what I naively imagined before I started at the institute. Some day at lunch I told my supervisor about this idea I had. We could take his fluid simulation method from computer graphics and apply it to a problem related to molten polymers. There was this experiment by a group of applied physicists that would fit nicely. He asked me how many people would be interested in the problem. Maybe a handful, I said. And then I realized that there was no way I could work on that problem. Success in academia is measured in the number of citations your paper receives. What point is there in writing a paper that is only interesting to such a small audience? To be successful you need to target a large audience, and not just pursue whatever obscure problem takes your fancy.&quot;</i><p>As a society, don&#x27;t we <i>want</i> our young academics to be able to pursue their intellectual passions, no matter how obscure? A lot of original research is produced in areas that others have overlooked or considered unimportant. Do we really want a &quot;citation market&quot; to determine whether researchers can pursue their passions?
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nilknover 10 years ago
This is probably a very naive question, but could somebody explain how education is becoming so expensive in the United States and yet there seem to be so few tenure-track positions available? I understand that the number of Ph.D.s has grown quite significantly in the last few decades, but so has the cost of attendance of almost all colleges. The number of tenure-track positions, meanwhile, hasn&#x27;t caught up at all.<p>I&#x27;m still amazed to consider that the college I attended, had I not received scholarships, would have cost me $50,000&#x2F;year to attend in total. Yet I can&#x27;t actually think of a single faculty member in the department I majored in who attained tenure while I was there. I do remember somebody joining with a Ph.D. from Harvard, having studied under a renowned mentor, for a non-tenure-track and low-paying &quot;lecturer&quot; post. This greatly talented person, naturally, is now gone, presumably at some other transient and low-paying post elsewhere. I just looked up one of my professors, who was a brilliant topologist and knot theorist doing a postdoc, and was surprised to find she&#x27;s abandoned academia and is working as an analyst in oil &amp; gas now.
nicklafover 10 years ago
Footnote: this story is oddly similar to the top story on the first archive.org snapshot of SN:<p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20070221033032/http://news.ycombinator.com/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20070221033032&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycomb...</a>
tspiteriover 10 years ago
The title &quot;Leaving Academia&quot; made me expect the author to have been in academia for some time, and not as a student, and to have decided to move on to something else. The article is not about leaving academia, but about not joining academia.
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berbcover 10 years ago
&gt; A career in academia would just require even more proving my worthiness.<p>I do not think the industry will accept you without you regularly proving your worthiness. Of course, a PhD is something special so I understand anybody would not want that, but not for the reasons given in the article. Same for crazy ideas and being educated. I believe someone could have given roughly the same reasons for &quot;Leaving X&quot; because she&#x27;s tired of doing the things that X requires. At least we learn about what doing a PhD entitles you to do, but as others have pointed out, this is quite a rude awakening.
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keredsonover 10 years ago
I also left my PhD program shortly after passing quals. I think it&#x27;s a great time to bail. There are too many great classes you&#x27;ll have to pass on if you&#x27;re only long enough to get a masters, and you haven&#x27;t yet burned a ton of dissertation hours. (Assuming you do it right - I remember my advisor being quite miffed that I wouldn&#x27;t stop signing up for a full load each semester.) Grad classes really are the best learning bang for the buck&#x2F;hour I&#x27;ve ever experienced. Just make sure you fill out the paperwork so you do get that MS along the way...
jcfreiover 10 years ago
Doing PhD has crossed my mind as well. From reading quite a slew of articles (most of them talking about abandoning academia, few of them happen to be positive), I would cynically summarize: Do a PhD if you are either a) doing it for the prestigious degree or b) because the subject really interests you. Don&#x27;t do a PhD if a) you are hoping for a tenure or b) expect to earn more. I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s anything inherently &quot;noble&quot; in doing a PhD, so I think the outcome of the decision should entirely depend on how realistic your expectations are.
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gradstudentover 10 years ago
I remember this article the first time it was posted here. I remember I was not impressed. My opinion in in the interim has not improved. For a start, this should really be titled &quot;Why I dropped out&quot; as you cannot leave an institution to which you do not yet belong. Moreover, the article, then as now, seems as vapid as the comments it inspires; i.e. tall poppy bullshit.<p>Bah humbug.
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ins0mover 10 years ago
A conclusion I am starting to see at the horizon for myself. Especially as a CS major the academic reality hits you hard - realizing this is probably not the direction you should bet your best years on. Taking the risk can be more fulfilling.<p>I would by quit interested in your next steps and way down the road.
jmcmahon443over 10 years ago
You are an expert in computer graphics and you think that the entertainment industry is the only one for you?<p>Go work for Autodesk, SolidWorks, Flux.io, PlanGrid, or one of the other companies making CAD software. WE NEED YOU GUYS.
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noelwelshover 10 years ago
<i>What point is there in writing a paper that is only interesting to such a small audience?</i><p>Substitute &quot;writing a paper&quot; with &quot;building a product&quot; and you&#x27;re well on your way to being an entrepreneur.
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arca_voragoover 10 years ago
&quot;Success in academia is measured in the number of citations your paper receives.&quot;<p>Which is why the quality of papers (among other reasons) has gone downhill. I knew a particularly brilliant scientist who would do basic work at a reduced rate in a corporate setting as long as the people actually writing the paper included him in the author list. He shows up on over 1000 papers, many of which are of dubious scientific merit, but because of those kinds of numbers, more and more people flock to him for similar work, without realizing it.
nooberminover 10 years ago
I&#x27;m curious what this fellow&#x27;s experience after leaving was.
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Hermelover 10 years ago
PhDs in IT do not pay off, at least salary-wise. The time is takes to complete them is much better invested in a regular job, gaining practical experience.
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sgnelsonover 10 years ago
I&#x27;m currently in graduate school. I&#x27;m constantly asking myself why I&#x27;m there. It&#x27;s certainly not for my future job prospects (though in my particular field, they do get better with a Master&#x27;s degree), and it&#x27;s not because I want to go into academia (Academia, at least for the social sciences, is slowly dying in my view).<p>But I do know why I&#x27;m there. I&#x27;m there to continue to learn new things, to interact with others who are like minded, and to work on problems that I may not get to explore in a paid position for a private company who seeks profits above all.<p>I could probably write an entire book on what is wrong with academia (the short answer: a lot). But at the same time, I have a freedom to explore that I wouldn&#x27;t have at even the most liberal companies (unless it was as a pure researcher, which quite frankly are rare positions, especially for a non-PhD).<p>All this being said, it seems obvious to me that the author made the right decision in his case, however, I think he misunderstood the reasons for going into academia. That might sound naive from my point of view (and to some degree, it absolutely is, but I won&#x27;t get into that now.), but I also think that it was naive in the author&#x27;s case to think that the only reason to go into academia is to further his career prospects.<p>Jumping through all the hoops of academia sucks. I was supposed to graduate in two weeks. Let&#x27;s just say I won&#x27;t be. It was quite the punch to the gut when I finally came to realize that I was going to miss the deadline to turn in my thesis. I made the comment to my advisor just two days ago: &quot;I hate this system, as if officially turning in what we&#x27;ve talked about for the past two years means that I will have learned any more than I already do, but if I don&#x27;t do it, I don&#x27;t have a piece of paper that certifies me as somewhat knowledgeable in a specific field.&quot; Which is pretty normal for almost anyone to note about this academic system. But I know that for many jobs, I need that piece of paper. So it goes. But I didn&#x27;t go back to school for a job, I went for an education, which I have received.<p>Academia isn&#x27;t for everyone of course, but if you go into it just for a better career, I feel many people will be sorely disappointed. If you go into it trying to see how much you can learn and realize that you get out of it, what you put in, you&#x27;ll still have a lot to complain about, but hopefully it won&#x27;t be a waste of time.
miochatover 10 years ago
Sadly, most of the people I care about also care about degrees, so I&#x27;m still struggling for a PhD title..
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serve_yayover 10 years ago
You will never stop qualifying yourself to other humans for as long as you live, never. It&#x27;s true that you can choose whether to seek certain of those qualifications, as is shown here. But it never really stops.
panjaroover 10 years ago
How can I vote down this link?