It's got nothing to do with cost, which is IMHO a complete canard. Spec for spec, MacBooks are actually quite competitive in the market in which they compete[0]. I'd <i>love</i> to see a linux based laptop that is as well integrated and as well made as a Mac. It'd be great if it wasn't fugly too. If it's cheaper, that's a bonus, but in all honesty, I've yet to find a brand new laptop that costs less that £700 that isn't a piece of junk. Below that price, all sorts of noticeable compromises are made; from screen resolution to overall build quality.<p>[0]I do a <i>lot</i> of procurement in my current job and spec for spec, Macbook Pros actually sit in the middle of the market place based on cost and I argue that they are placed higher in terms of build quality than most other brands too. Extensibility is where they fall down massively, but then after 3 year, all our machines are retired anyway, by which time they are financially written off. For the record, I buy HP zBooks which are more expensive than Macs and in my experience not as well integrated with Windows <i>or</i> Linux.
I am already using the Linux on laptop better than Mac. It is called Thinkpad (an older model).<p>Now the problem is that Lenovo is trying to be more like Apple and this does not go well with them. You can ask how much people are pleased with the new single button touchpads or how they like 16:9 screens instead of 16:10 screens or how they like the lack of Delete button.<p>So yes, I would buy a laptop (I would not buy a branded PC for obvious reasons) that has very good ergonomics and is made from quality components. This would be not a Mac'1, and unfortunately, if nothing changes in Lenovo, it would be also not a Thinkpad.<p>Based on my gut feeling based on the surfing around, I would bet that I am not alone. Therefore I could say that there may be a market opportunity.<p>'1 due eye strain and need to move hands away from keyboard.
Of course but DO NOT BELIEVE that you can make something of better quality than a hundred billion dollar company can do.<p>Apple has lots of legacy code, you know, when you see instant vector graphics in apple maps, Apple is using decades of software done by dozens of genius programmers over time when efficiency mattered(for example for drawing fonts on the screen). This code, then, became accelerated.<p>Apple bought a hardware semiconductor company that designs specific hardware for them that makes for example instant photos or slow motion video, or hardware acceleration of playback(which makes battery last way longer than anyone else).<p>Apple sells millions of devices and this means they have access to a supply chain and prices you can't get. period.<p>If you want to compete with Apple, do what Apple will never do:<p>- Add the option to replace the battery and RAM.
- The option to use it on sunlight, like Pixel Qi.
- Make the hardware open source.
- Make the case also open so people can 3d print it or mechanize or whatever, like a Harley Davidson.
- Make it rugged so people can use it in the beach.<p>You have to find your niche in what the big boys will never care to compete or just scares them.<p>Forget about lesser cost, your prices need to be way higher than Apple because at first you will be selling thousands st most, not millions.<p>I have a company. I don't care if I have to spend double or triple what an air cost if it solves a problem no body else solves(and it makes me money). I spend 50.000 or 60.000 dollars in some machines(because they give me lots of money back).
So I'll say this as a mac user for the last 5 years: I'm mostly buying the hardware, not the software. I'm actually not really that fond of OS-X. I feel like in theory I <i>should</i> like it (a nice unix with great graphics?), but it finds a lot of subtle ways to annoy the hell out of me. Apple is great at beautiful UI's, but I think they kind of suck at UX.<p>The only reason I haven't switched to linux is I find most of their UI's are more annoying. (Gnome 2 was solid, but Gnome 3 and unity are a mess, and KDE feels like it's in a perpetual state of not-quite-done although if I were to use any of them, that would probably be my choice)<p>I guess I'd also say though, that linux as a selling point would mean nothing to me (good or bad). Like I wouldn't care that it's a linux computer at all, I'd either be excited or not because it's a well put together machine.
Absolutely, yes.<p>I like the idea of System76, but I find the quality of the chassis they use to be abysmal. I considered installing Linux on Mac hardware, but the hoops you need to jump through to install it and the challenges with drivers on recent hardware were a turn-off.<p>That left me with my year-old Lenovo T440p, which I currently run Ubuntu on. It's not as nice as Macbook hardware, though. I don't care for the trackpad or the keyboard layout (though the action is great), and the backlight bleed on the screen is really disappointing. But it met my needs of a 14" laptop with a 4-core i7, 1080p display, and discrete graphics chip, and I'm completely satisfied with the performance. I'd love to see another high-end manufacturer out there.
No.<p>MacBook Pro 2009:<p>Aluminium Unibody deforms if dropped. Glass trackpad can shatter. Stupid fucking magsafe connector is too weak - a connector cable that fails even though it's only held on with magnets is severely sub-optimal. Only two USB connectors. chicet keyboard. Sharp edges. No trackpad buttons or trackpoint. Gloss screen.<p>Give me:-<p>* A great keyboard. See Apple Powerbook for an example great keyboard. (Obviously Thinkpads had great keyboards too).<p>* high impact ABS. This doesn't look as nice as aluminum. It probably doesn't feel as nice. But it survives knocks and falls better. My Asus EEE PC 701 was robust as hell, so whatever that was made out of.<p>* don't solder the drives to the board. Or have a very good quality SSD soldered to the board with one (better 2) drivebays.<p>* 4:3 monitor!!!<p>* take three popular Linux distributions (say Ubuntu; Arch and Fedora) and instLl them on your computer. Test them rigorously. Write clear detailed guides and how-tos and faqs on your site to cover the tweaking needed. Contribute any code back upstream. Make sure the following are working out of the box:-<p>- wifi<p>-acpi or similar (especially sleep on lid close; and make sure the system correctly wakes after)<p>-power management<p>* give it a huge battery and make sure the OS is set to give at least 8 hours use.<p>* allow a stupid large amount of ram to be installed. Offer very fast very good very large prefitted tested ram as a purchase option.<p>By mentioning Mac you've introduced a bunch of weird things that fistract from the conversation you actually want. Better would be "would you like a computer like Thinkpads used to be?" Or "imagine the best bits of all the laptops you've ever used, all together in one great machine, with Linux".
Yes, if it's a laptop (DIY will always be better for PCs). But until I see it, I won't believe that you or anyone can pull it off at a price that's competitive (or equal) to a Macbook Pro/Air.<p>Apple's laptop line is actually quite competitive. The keyboard (layout), trackpad (quality/design), integration of hardware and software (battery life + feel), and overall build quality are what sets Apple apart from the competition. I have yet to buy an Apple product, but I also haven't replaced my laptop in over 3 years. Every time I think of doing so, I go through the same exercise:<p>1. Eliminate laptops with idiotic layouts (I'm one of those people that type with the right shift key). This first step already cuts out the majority of low cost laptops.<p>2. Filter by battery life. Suddenly Apple pricing isn't looking that bad.<p>3. Filter by specs - screen, etc. Now you are left with laptops that are all in the same (or higher!) price range as Apple.<p>And this is all before taking into account other factors like Linux compatibility. By time I get the list down to models that are competitive with Apple, the price is almost always equal or higher. And usually, none work 100% perfectly with Linux. So I end up buying nothing.<p>If you could pull off such a piece of hardware, where the hardware is designed to fit the distro's look and feel (a very underrated pro for Apple products in my opinion), at a competitive price, I'd be first in line to buy one.
I would love one. Currently in between real laptops (long story, currently using a £200 15" craptop with debian XFCE) and I am genuinely puzzled what to do next.<p>Macbook air (my last real laptop, 11") was awesome, but you have to upgrade the storage at the start (I learned the hard way). There's no option for a smallish SSD + big spinning data drive (which, in practise, turns out to be <i>extremely</i> useful.) I could break the bank and order the 500GB SSD, but then I get worried about longevity. Additionally, I'd have to live with Yosemite for the time being, which it seems is the Lion of this generation of OSs (much much slower than its predecessor).<p>So I started looking at ThinkPads as the traditional Linux laptops. I met a guy in a coffee shop, literally yesterday, who was still running a 32-bit X200 and said he wouldn't change it for the world. Looking at the latest of that line (X240) I am tempted (especially by the NGFF SSD slot, and the much higher resolution) until I read the reviews everyone is posting about how awful the mac-style trackpad is. I love the apple touchpads, I actually own the bluetooth external one, but the USP of them is clearly their drivers. It sounds like the X240's trackpad is going to be even worse than my craptops, which at least has buttons!<p>I've just had a look at the System76 brand, but their smallest device is a 14"-er! So no dice there. It would have two full HDD slots though, which would allow for some serious storage customisation...<p>So what to do? At the moment I'm tempted by the X240, and being prepared to carry around a USB mouse in case it is impossible to hack that trackpad.
No.<p>Linux makes for a good server setup, but the desktop side is lacking in high-quality applications that are considered standard on other platforms. Linux simply has too many cooks to ever achieve the mostly homogenous experience of Windows or Mac. That is both it's blessing and it's curse.<p>Besides, I get 90% of what I need from Linux on a Mac and the other 10% I can get from a VM running Linux or a remote box.
As a consumer family, during 2014 we bought several used Win 7 i5 Lenovo T410 and T510 from a simply-lovely and adorable eBay vendor. $200-$250 price class.<p>The ones with video GPUs chips went to the kids. They're extremely happy, so the laptoos must be good enough. They use them daily. I got The Beast, and added an SSD and BluRay player drive. I'm very happy too.<p>It's been a great year for used computer hardware. The available used hardware with Win 7 is great. YMMV.<p>Merry Xmas!!
Are you joking? Of course I would. But "better" and "amazing" are pretty ambiguous words. And, well, for that matter, I'm already using Linux laptop, not produced by Apple. There are some decent ones. Thinkpad T440s is pretty good, for instance, although I like metal cases indeed.<p>And one thing to remember is that one advantage of MacBooks as they come isn't the hardware itself, but that OS is well optimized for that particular hardware: if you're installing Linux on your MacBook battery lifetime becomes quite shorter. Wouldn't it be nice to optimize Linux that way? Yeah, it would, but I personally don't know how we can do that.
I don't mean to be critical, but it seems like kind of the wrong question to ask. Anyone who would answer yes to this question has already answered it in practice: I have a mac, and I could well install linux on it, but I don't. I used to use thinkpads when they didn't suck, and I tried linux but always had driver and media troubles (that was a decade ago and has absolutely gotten better, but definitely not perfect).<p>There are plenty of good computers out there, and anyone who would actually go full time linux has probably already made that decision.<p>So instead, ask who's put their money where their mouth is and purchased a personal computer to dedicate at least mostly to linux.<p>(Not me).
No.<p>The hardware is only part of the problem, and I think something like Dell's XPS 13 is of reasonable quality.<p>The problem is (as it has always been) that linux lacks the quality, polish, and application ecosystem to make it a suitable desktop environment (for me, at least).
What about System76? Aren't they in the exact market space/niche you're describing?<p><a href="https://system76.com/" rel="nofollow">https://system76.com/</a>
I, personally, want the T420 with a better (16:10) screen and speakers. The processor is also starting to get a bit long in the tooth for what I do.<p>I don't even need a 4:3. (I prefer two side-by-side columns for coding.)<p>Oh, and the system should wake from sleep properly 100% of the time rather than 96% of the time (as my t420 does) and I shouldn't have intermittent wi-fi problems (as my t420 does.) So, I think the bigger key is having the tech work perfectly rather than look pretty.
No.<p>There's more to it than the hardware and the OS.<p>I've got ancient thinkpads (great machines), an old desktop, and an iPad Air1. I use a fair amount of linux here and there. I'm not wed to any platform for surfing, editing, writing, email, etc. I help support and maintain a lot of friends' machines that are Apple, and 100% of my interactions with the hardware and/or company have been successful, and relatively painless. Sometimes, even delightful. As a 40 year veteran of computers (back to punch cards), it's the best i've seen.<p>Still, hate it or not, Apple integration across a spectrum of devices is a big factor. I think only Google comes close, and they have some drawbacks.<p>So no... i would not consider a linux box to save a few bux. it's not what you pay, it's what it costs.<p>final note... linux updates too frequently for my tastes...an artifact of its dispersed development.
Honestly no.<p>The crowd who uses Linux primarily currently is well versed with installing it on a Mac, or any laptop really. Linux is built on the notion of self-reliance, self-development, do it yourself, laugh in the face of danger [1]. So marketing to people who hold these principles is challenging.<p>On top of that MacOSX is a full Unix w/ Bash + GNU utils. So functionally from a developers perspective you don't gain much of anything. Interacting with a Mac or Linux from the CLI is pretty much the same.<p>[1] <a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/linux.dev.kernel/qeeP584Ny08/CM0gZB0L7nQJ" rel="nofollow">https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/linux.dev.kernel/qeeP5...</a>
No.<p>But a lightweight (<1kg) passively cooled laptop with a great keyboard, an excellent e-ink screen with at least FullHD resolution, good battery life, and fully open source software and firmware would. Any arch (MIPS, ARM, SH4, whatever) is fine with me.
So I use linux on my laptops as my primary OS. Mint on my thinkpad, crouton with xubuntu and chromeos on my chromebook.<p>I often talk to other developers here in the bay area about their computers, which are almost invariably macbooks. The reason that they continually cite for macbooks is battery life. 10 to 12 hours of typical usage including web browsing. A bit less if you are doing a fair bit of compiling.<p>If you want to make a laptop, you can do fine with commodity hardware, provided you pick devices with an eye on power. That may mean working with suppliers to get better drivers. I personally don't care if they are proprietary blobs or open source... but power consumption on linux vs. windows is often tracable to driver issues.<p>I mean a reasonably good screen and keyboard and trackpad are all important, but reasonably good ones exist out there.<p>Iou need to spend a lot of time tuning battery life. You need to figure out which commodity hardware devices draw the least power. You need to make the computers sleep instantly when the screen is closed. Get battery life up.<p>If you are going to innovate on hardware, this is where I would do it. Lenovo has a internal battery so you can hotswap external batteries. Dell had a separate arm processor with their Latitude |ON feature and got crazy battery life, and the Moto X had a separate dedicated processor for certain functions to improve battery life... maybe have your machine include a low power multicore arm processor and use that as much as possible, only using your intel cpu when the arm is overwhelmed or can't run a specific program.<p>The other thing is you have to make your first product good enough so you can improve your second product. Because to really make something good, you have to innovate.
I'd love to see something along the lines of the chromebook pixel, but with more memory and a larger ssd. I have one running crouton, but because of those two limitations I don't use it as often.
For me yes, but I already use separate Linux and MBP laptops. I think about upgrading my Linux laptop from time to time and I'd like something with the power of my MBP with its form factor.<p>However, I'm a current Linux user (my primary dev machine) who'd be upgrading, not converting from Mac to Linux.<p>IMHO, Linux is a kickass dev OS once you really get Linux. However, it does lack the refinement of Mac OS, so I think it's a long shot that a substantial number of devs would switch. My $0.02.
Not really.<p>Just thinking about general use personal computers (not remote boxes, servers, etc.), the only thing I feel like Linux adds to the OS X experience is tiling window managers.<p>But I only care about them on my giant 4K screen at home, where I only /need/ to use OS X for certain non-linux apps and where similar functionality comes from 3rd party apps. On my laptop(s), I tend to full-screen basically everything anyway, which works about the same on every system.<p>So, desktop PCs....no. You can build something better than any company can offer for similar or less money and with the compromises you want instead of the ones someone else decided on.<p>And for laptops, no. I find that I can get what I want from products that are already on the market. I /would/ pay for an Apple Laptop with a 12" 16:10 very high resolution screen and a trackpoint without thinking, though.
Most often you get more bang for your buck if you do not need to limit yourself to Apple hardware. So, if you use Linux you - very likely - have already more hardware to your disposal for lesser cost.<p>So, I think the answer to "Does that appeal to me?" is yes. :-)
I have the 2013 XPS 15. Side by side with a macbook pro and they're almost identical. The touch pad is a bit better on the Macbook, but it's not a huge difference. Keyboard layouts are basically identical, and I like the tactile feel of both. Build quality on the XPS 15 is excellent. The only problems I've run into were driver problems that have been resolved. It's pretty amazing for a dev machine on ubuntu. The one major advantage of the Macbook is battery life. I only get 3.5 hrs with the 6 cell battery. Apple definitely has some great battery voodoo.<p>Anyway, I'm super happy with it as a high end Linux laptop.
Depends on the cost, and the hardware & software components that are used. I currently run debian jessie on both my desktop (home-build), and on my cheap hp laptop that I bought a few years ago. I won't buy a new apple computer simply because they are well outside of my budget. I did buy a macbook refurb some years ago, and enjoyed it a lot, but I still stuck with my hp laptop for most work.<p>I would get some peace of mind knowing that all hardware components are going to be supported by the linux kernel. However, I'm probably going to rip the OS out of the system and install my own.
I have a MBP and an old F20 T61 beater, and both are great. Ubuntu 14 is great, too, and I sporadically run that in places but we all have our preferences and I like the EL-family of distros more.<p>Windows 7 is perfectly fine, too. They even seem to be rescuing 8 post-Nadella.<p>Really, the thing is a web browser and a shell. Anything with a physical keyboard is better than a phone or a tablet.<p>Either of them run VMWare or VirtualBox just fine, so I can run any OS I like, regardless. Generally I got with the MBP for that reason, because the build quality is good enough of the licensing PITA that Mac makes for virtualizing OS X.
<i>"Does the idea of a computer that bundles a linux distro into one amazing piece of tech like d mac, at a lesser cost, appeal to you?"</i><p>I'd want replaceable battery, replaceable hard drive/ssd and would put up with a thicker case, the X classic series Thinkpad form factor or a tad thinner would be OK. A decent keyboard (agnostic as to chicklet/traditional but with sensible key sizes) would be needed.<p>Warning: I'd expect Trisquel or gNewSense to 'just work'. No proprietary anything. De-blobbed kernel.
A linux computer of the quality of a mac is basically ... a mac. Yes, the mac isn't an open source-based computer but every other aspect of what makes it "a mac" is the quality of function, design, and integration. If anyone could bring a computer to market that had those qualities without the walled garden, I'm sure it would be wildly popular, but the challenges inherent in doing that are obvious. The post begs the question.
Unequivocally yes. As a developer having an identical setup on my local machine that I do on my server saves so much time. Besides none of the commercial OS's have a package manager that comes close to the package managers on linux / bsd.
Gosh yeah. I use Linux as my primary OS now on a cheap-ish laptop (student), and even with the low-DPI screen, so-so keyboard and odd hardware compatibility issues, I love it. I'd pay quite a bit for some high quality hardware.
I would worry that the bundling bundling would be along lines I don't like. I currently use a System76 laptop, but wind up ripping out much of the default setup. That said, I'd certainly look at it.
No, I have to use linux desktop at work form time to time and constantly amazed how fucking terrible it is. I think I would rather use OSX on Asus hardware.
I think biggest problem about Linux is X server. Without modern and fresh display server Linux desktop enviroments just trying to be alive with hacks and workarounds.
It's Chromebook pixel. Unfortunately, Google didn't provide option for memory and SSD upgrade. Otherwise, I would stop using apple and use linux on it.
Yes. I am using a Lenovo Thinkpad, and I think about getting a macbook and installing Linux on it all of the time.<p>I hate OS X, but love the hardware.
This <i>is</i> the chromebook. Maybe it's not 100% there just yet, but in a couple years it might be. In any case, HTML + CSS + JS is the UI of the future, and your OS will be irrelevant by then.