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Ending the open office epidemic

208 pointsby efedorenkoabout 10 years ago

31 comments

lallysinghabout 10 years ago
I guess I&#x27;m in a real minority here, but I&#x27;m pretty happy with open-office.<p>Some qualifiers:<p>- The team has a good culture of respecting each other, and we&#x27;re busy enough not to want to banter too much outside of certain times (e.g., lunch, when we see it already going on, etc.).<p>- I&#x27;ve got good headphones hooked to a 24-bit-DAC&#x27;d USB amp. I don&#x27;t hear anyone unless I&#x27;m trying to.<p>- My screen&#x27;s big enough where visual noise isn&#x27;t an issue.<p>On the upside:<p>- Asking someone a quick question is really, really quick.<p>Downsides of my prior each-their-own-office experiences:<p>- I sometimes felt a bit lonely.<p>- I certainly felt disconnected from the rest of my team.<p>- I was disconnected from the rest of my team - there were always important conversations I would&#x27;ve liked to been part of.<p>[edited for getting the bullets formatted]
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joesmoabout 10 years ago
Another negative about open office plans that I don&#x27;t see people mentioning is the hearing loss due to having to wear headphones up to eight hours a day. Headphones are generally not recommended to be used more than an hour a day and even then, they need to be at a low volume, something that&#x27;s impossible in the open-office plans I&#x27;ve seen&#x2F;worked in.<p>&quot;As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day&quot; (<a href="http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-health/health-conditions-library/general-health/Pages/headphone-safety.aspx" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.osteopathic.org&#x2F;osteopathic-health&#x2F;about-your-hea...</a>).
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athenotabout 10 years ago
I remember the library at my university being excellent at getting me in the &quot;flow&quot;. It&#x27;s not so much about &quot;open office vs private office&quot; as it is the expectation in those places.<p>I&#x27;m toying with the idea of recreating a library-like environment that is super quiet and zen-like, but not limited in number of people. Go there for flow-type work. On the flip side, have a cafe-like environment for animated collaborations. Of course, there needs to be a great insulation between the 2, perhaps have them on a different floor.
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ChuckMcMabout 10 years ago
I hope they also publish a follow-up after living in their new office for a year.<p>Specific things that I&#x27;m interested in:<p>1) How would folks relate the understanding of what is going on at the company now, and compared to before?<p>2) How do folks compare their effectiveness in getting things done for themselves? for others? as a group?<p>3) What is the one thing they would change?<p>When I joined NetApp it had just acquired a caching company, the original company had open plan, NetApp had offices. They kept the open plan for the caching employees for the transition and then offered anyone who wanted to move into an office or a cube that option. A number of people took them up on that offer.<p>In the non-open plan version the same people got less done and felt more out of touch than they had when they were open plan, but they enjoyed their work environment with an office more than they enjoyed the open plan space. From a company perspective it was clear that it was in the company&#x27;s interest in doing open plan, and in the employee&#x27;s interest it was better to do offices. Of course as an anecdote it provides no statistically valid data to the debate. But it left me with the questions above which, in a different experiment like Wildbit&#x27;s I would love to have another data point.
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rdtscabout 10 years ago
Open office &quot;advantage&quot; is the story owners who can&#x27;t afford to pay for a better location tell the developers.<p>Sort of like the guy whose car broke so he is taking his tractor to work. He would tell the world how tractors are so much better and have all these great advantages compared to regular cars.
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kazinatorabout 10 years ago
Open offices instantly &quot;out&quot; anyone who comes late, leaves early, takes a 2.5 hour lunch breaks, or surfs the web instead of working.<p>And that&#x27;s really the whole point.<p>It&#x27;s why they are popular in Japan, together with the fact that thanks to the open structure, transgressor can apologize in front of everyone at once.
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jobuabout 10 years ago
<i>&quot;As a company grows, the cost of restructuring an office to accommodate more people in different layouts is time consuming and expensive. By having desks in an open plan and telephone rooms for quiet time, the idea is that you can solve the cost and flexibility problems while still offering a quiet place to retreat if needed. From a growth perspective this is smart. If I planned to add 30 employees to our office in the next 12 months I might not have a choice otherwise.&quot;</i><p>Well said. Some people like to blame it on founders too cheap to buy decent furniture, but rearranging people every few months is time consuming and disruptive (It can also kill morale when someone loses a window or gets stuck under a vent.)
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dba7dbaabout 10 years ago
The pics showing what-it-looks-like and what-it-feels-like made me chuckle. Very true.<p>I got to visit Autodesk in Northern California in mid 1990s. In that office each employee was in an enclosed office.<p>Down a long hallway were rows of offices with enough room for a desk&#x2F;chair and 2 chairs in front of the desk for visitors. Wall facing the hallway was glass. Wall between rooms were actual dry walls.<p>I remember some friends who were even the most junior level engineers were given an office. When they were working late, they could just put down a sleeping bag under their desk and take a nap. None of the shared napping room non-sense.<p>I think that arrangement is the best.
teamonkeyabout 10 years ago
One of my favourite anecdotes about open offices is 22m in to this video[1], where Gabe Newell of Valve talks about his desire to have one office per person and how it didn&#x27;t work out in practice. Bonus: he mentions Peopleware.<p>[1] <a href="http://youtu.be/t8QEOBgLBQU?t=22m" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;t8QEOBgLBQU?t=22m</a>
JimboOmegaabout 10 years ago
I will say that not all open offices are the same. The one I work in currently is constantly noisy - people will wander around on the phone arguing loudly, for instance. But others I&#x27;ve visited were wonderfully quiet, with the few conversations occurring in hushed voices.<p>That said, what annoys me the most about the open plan office is also having a boss who cares a lot about what&#x27;s currently on my screen. (e.g., hacker news rather than vim). I hate having the instinct to cmd-tab every time I see someone walking by. (even if I&#x27;m already doing work!)
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someotherdbabout 10 years ago
A chap in our office runs to work each day, changes and leaves his damp sweaty clothes around his desk to dry. This means people give him lots of space, and practically his own office.
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trhwayabout 10 years ago
office -&gt; cube -&gt; open floor plan -&gt; next? what can be even worse than the open floor? Transparent floors? No walls at all? I&#x27;m sure in a few years we&#x27;ll know.
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MAGZineabout 10 years ago
So, I&#x27;ve worked at what is essentially a F500 company, and am currently studying at University. My feelings:<p>- I really like collaborative spaces&#x2F;pods <i>except</i> when I&#x27;m trying to really hammer on work, independently. I don&#x27;t like being isolated. If I come into the office at 7-or-8am before everyone arrives, those two hours will outstrip the rest of my day (except after 6pm). Noise, mid-afternoon, is especially bad and distracting. Some people in my group have taken to occupying entire meeting rooms just so they can focus in quiet.<p>- I am most productive at University in quiet spaces. The library, mostly. BUT, in an environment where I&#x27;m working with other people, bouncing ideas, etc, it&#x27;s not a productive environment because libraries demand QUIET. My second favorite place to work is in one of our &quot;group study&quot; rooms. They&#x27;re small, private rooms with space for up to 6 people. Whiteboards and TVs, outlets, etc are provided.<p>I think separating people into these rooms would be my ideal configuration. I&#x27;m not sure that I&#x27;d necessarily partition people officially (except in cases where people want an office to e.g. store belongings), just give people a notebook and say sit where you want. I can therefore sit in whichever room I want, and multiple people who demand quiet working conditions are able to share a space. This combines the nicety of social interaction, being able to discuss with someone about work-or-non-work related things, with long stretches of quiet, uninterrupted worktime.<p>The ideal office (or at least one I&#x27;d like to try working in) would be where there are many offices small offices that represent these group study rooms. Natural light (with blinds), comfy chairs, TVs for presenting, whiteboards, climate control, etc. Take one room and copy&#x2F;paste it. Add some open areas as well, for people who prefer to work in those spaces. Destress&#x2F;common areas.
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shmerlabout 10 years ago
Agreed. I don&#x27;t get it, why are they so popular? Some psychologists came up with this lame idea and now everyone runs to implement it. Crowded open spaces are distracting any time you need to concentrate. They impose a feeling of a factory and monotonous work.
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j_bakerabout 10 years ago
I think there&#x27;s more to the open office epidemic than mere cost. Facebook is pouring tons of money into the largest open office in the world. Eric Schmidt and Jonathan Rosenberg wrote in &quot;How Google Works&quot; that offices should be (and I wish I were making this up) &quot;crowded, messy, and a petri dish for creativity&quot;.<p>I think many companies use open office formats out of <i>principle</i>. Misguided principles, but principles nonetheless.
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tzsabout 10 years ago
(This is an updated version of a comment from a similar discussion 3 years ago)<p>A layout I&#x27;ve worked in, and that I&#x27;d happily work in again, is this:<p><pre><code> +---------+---------+ | | | | | | +-----+ -+- +-----+ | | | | | | +-----+ +-----+ | | | | | | +-----+ +-----+ | | | | | | +-------| |-------+ </code></pre> The area in the middle is a common area for the group. It can have a table or two and chairs so people can hang out there, or even bring their laptops out and work there, when they are feeling social.<p>The bottom and middle side rooms are private offices. They should have doors that close and be reasonably insulated from sound, so that a worker can work without disturbance when they want to. Ideally, the wall wall facing the central area should have a big window (with drapes or blinds!) so that the person in the office can see if anything interesting is going on in the central area. Each office should have its own light switch capable of turning off all lights in that office.<p>The top two rooms can be bigger offices, or conference rooms, or break rooms for breaks that might be too noisy in the central area. The gap in the bottom wall is the connection to the hallway.<p>With this environment, you can easily work in private, no distraction mode (go into your office, close the door, and close the blinds, and you can even play some music on speakers without disturbing others if that helps you work), or in full social mode (take your laptop to the middle area), or in between (work in your office, but leave the door and window open, so you can keep an ear and eye on what&#x27;s going on in the social area.<p>Note that if you have two groups working on different things, but that have a manager or senior engineer working with both, you can extend this concept and put the two groups side by side, with a large office (or more) in the middle connecting to both:<p><pre><code> +---------+---------+---------+---------+ | | | | | | | | | | +-----+ -+- +-----+-----+ -+- +-----+ | | | | | | | | | | +-----+ +-----+-----+ +-----+ | | | | | | | | +-----+ +-----+-----+ +-----+ | | | | | | | | | | +-------| |-------+-------| |-------+</code></pre>
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washadjeffmadabout 10 years ago
Between industry, offices, and schools, I bring earplugs with me everywhere and hand them out to people who have to work in these types of environments.<p>A lot of the time, people can&#x27;t get away to hear themselves think, and it stresses them out more than they realize. Imagine never feeling like you&#x27;re as focused and productive as you&#x27;re used to being and the impact that might take on your self appraisal; it&#x27;s like never being able to get comfortable in bed, night after night. Using the plugs helps people get away mentally and maintain their focus when they can&#x27;t separate themselves from their environment.<p>Also, the people who might more casually chatter at you stop when they notice you&#x27;ve got them in without you having to decide whether to be polite and acknowledge them, which besides sparing your focus might help the ones who have a harder time controlling their socializing reign theirs in.
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vitdabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m glad someone&#x27;s talking about this. There was some talk of moving my office to open-space, and I&#x27;ve tried hard to discourage it because it would make me less productive.<p>One recommendation to wildbit, though - that staircase with the neon-green diagonal lines may make some people nauseous as they walk down it. We have one similar to it in one of our offices and some employees have to avoid it because they get vertigo walking down it.
reitanqildabout 10 years ago
I guess you can judge what management really thinks about open offices by looking at how many line up to get their place out there.<p>Around here I have visited one company where it seemed like management where actually out in the open and I think I know one major branch office at one major telco that also does (or did? I haven&#x27;t heard anything the last few years.)
jleyankabout 10 years ago
Re: hearing loss, let an old fart offer some advice. I loved listening to music loud as you could feel it in various ways (physically and emotionally). However, the result is real expensive head jewelry and the need to run iPods at 95+% volume through good earphones to hear what I want. Trust me, you don&#x27;t want to have this happen. No matter how good the digital signal processors are, they suck in restaurants and crowds.<p>Take an hour or so and get a hearing check done by an audiologist. This will give you a baseline. If there&#x27;s nothing wrong, great, you can check again in 5-10 years. However, if there&#x27;s problems you can alter your behaviour and hopefully preserve your hearing. And if &quot;oh s*ht&quot; results from such a test, you will find out that hearing aids cost 10-15x great earphones&#x2F;headphones and insurance tends not to cover them. In North America at least.
sopooneoabout 10 years ago
I am a programmer with my own office. I like it better than shared space, especially if that space is shared with other departments. Especially especially if one of those other departments is sales. Those folks are great for a night out, but I&#x27;m not working beside that endless frat party ever again.<p>However, are we, the fans of private offices, claiming that our corporate overlords are not only greedy, but misguided? That in fact individual offices would be better <i>both</i> for their bottom line <i>and</i> our happiness as programmers?<p>I ask this only because I find myself increasingly suspect of all arguments which end by declaring that our stance &quot;would be better for them anyway!&quot; I call it arguing on both hands. As in, &quot;on the one hand, this circumstance favors my position, but on the other hand so does this one!&quot;
tarikjnabout 10 years ago
I have reservations on WildBit&#x27;s approach based on single person office cores. In my experience 2-4 person project spaces has been the ideal size. But it&#x27;s their business, that might be what fits them best.
bsg75about 10 years ago
&quot;Why is everyone going toward open offices? I ask myself this question a lot. My main answers come down to cost and flexibility.&quot;<p>Cost. Flexibility is a very, very distant second.
Fede_Vabout 10 years ago
That office plan looks fantastic. I was worried this would be another &#x27;thinkpiece&#x27; about replacing the traditional open office plan with something which is more or less the same thing, but somehow has the best of both worlds and was pleasantly surprised.<p>Anyway - those offices look amazing. Great job.
ThrustVectoringabout 10 years ago
Anything you can do to keep the entire company on the same floor is a good idea. Putting different people on different floors is enough to get an &quot;us vs. them&quot; dynamic going on. That&#x27;s the only concrete thing I&#x27;d want to improve on from the office plan they described.
zachbergerabout 10 years ago
Perhaps instead of one or the other we should have a choice of our work environments instead of the other side dictating how to work. I, for one, prefer the open office environment.
forkandwaitabout 10 years ago
The office I want is two big well lit rooms, one quiet one loud, and rolling desks assigned to emplyees.
metaphormabout 10 years ago
lets talk practical concerns. this company is based in Philadelphia, where real estate is still relatively affordable. If your company is based in New York or San Francisco you simply cannot afford an office like the one described in this article.
geebeeabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m coming in late here, but I have experienced an open office environment that I found relatively productive. This was at Sun Micro&#x27;s drop in center in SF (about 15 years ago now).<p>The drop in center had three separate rooms. Two were loud rooms, with phones at each desk. One was a smaller &quot;quiet room&quot;, with no phones, intended for people who do quiet, focused work. I suppose there was some &quot;back visibility&quot;, since the workstations were set up on round (might have been hexagonal) tables, so it would have depended on where you sit. Another big factor in the success of a quiet room was an office manager who absolutely enforced the noise rules, since a lot of people who would push the limits if allowed (when spaces in the loud rooms were all taken)<p>There were also a few offices&#x2F;small conf rooms for meetings and so forth.<p>I think it worked, but that&#x27;s probably because it didn&#x27;t have the same goals of &quot;collaboration&quot; or &quot;openness&quot; that modern open office proponents often claim to provide. Most importantly, the open office and quiet room was clearly not intended to keep an eye on workers in any way. It was a drop in center in the first place, so while you might see the same people around, nobody was really monitoring anyone else. Also, there was no status associated with where you sat - open seating, grab what you like. And of course, the quiet room showed a great respect for people like developers who need extended periods of quiet focus.<p>It&#x27;s also clear that the &quot;open office&quot; quality of this drop in center wasn&#x27;t based on flawed notions of increased communication or collaboration. At that time, developers at Sun had their own offices (well, I did, and I wasn&#x27;t high on the org chart), so the drop in center was for convenience. It was set up so that people who had meetings in other spots, or who wanted to telecommute, had a place with a workstation if they needed it, and had a phone or a quiet room, depending on how they needed to work that day. The idea that the office would be a place for constant open communication wasn&#x27;t part of the plan - in fact, the quiet room ensured that this sort of thing didn&#x27;t constantly distract the developers.<p>Kind of depressing, now that I think about it, that the only time in my life I had my own office was my first job. The industry has really moved away from that model over the last 15 years. Facebook has moved into the old sun offices… did they tear them all out and replace them with open offices?<p>I also had shared offices quite a few times, and I enjoyed those (actually, I liked them more than my own office in many ways, provided I shared with another developer). Cubicles and open offices are pretty horrible, but I think that if we had a &quot;quiet room&quot; approach to them, they might not be so bad.
michaelochurchabout 10 years ago
The open-plan monster is now self-reinforcing and runs on its own sort of cargo-cult momentum, but historically there was an under-reported and rather offensive motivation: backdoor age (and, to a lesser extent, gender and disability) discrimination.<p>I think that 90 percent of companies that are now using them are doing so for more respectable reasons (either they believe that &quot;collaboration&quot; shit, or they are aggressively cutting costs... which is unpleasant but not evil) but, for many in the past, one of the motivations in the move toward less workplace privacy over the past 20 years was... to push out older programmers.<p>It doesn&#x27;t make sense when there&#x27;s a lot to do, because the older programmers are often the most efficient in terms of value per salary (i.e. they get 5 times as much done, but only cost 2x as much). You want old programmers when you have too much work to do. But when you have a slowdown and don&#x27;t need high-end work, those older programmers will be seen as (expensive) excess capacity. If you&#x27;re also looking to shave costs, moving to a crappier office space kills two birds with one stone.<p>All of that said, I doubt that open-offices have the discriminatory effect now that the entire tech industry uses them. They used to push out older developers, but now, the people who absolutely can&#x27;t stand them (or whose health can&#x27;t handle them) have long-since left, and they&#x27;re just making everyone&#x27;s life hell.<p>Of course, these offices also discriminate against people with a large array of health problems, and they aren&#x27;t exactly pleasant for women... and I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if there were a massive class action suit in the next 10 years over it. It&#x27;d be hard to prove discrimination in most cases, but I&#x27;m sure that the bigger tech companies have discussions about office layouts and age that wouldn&#x27;t look good in discovery.<p>They&#x27;re also not a great economic trade. Office space is <i>really</i> cheap in comparison to having your people be distracted. $40&#x2F;SF per year would be high-end commercial real estate, and you only need 150-200 SF to give developers a decent layout.
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ripbabout 10 years ago
I want some of whatever their investors are smoking.<p>Edit: Is it the smoke from all those dollar bills going up in those flames?
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