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Why Spotify Pays So Little

613 pointsby kforabout 10 years ago

52 comments

mortenjorckabout 10 years ago
Like others in this thread, I naively assumed this was how Spotify already worked, and wondered why the payouts tended to be so low. Now it makes sense, and puts the numbers here (<a href="http://www.spotifyartists.com/spotify-explained/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spotifyartists.com&#x2F;spotify-explained&#x2F;</a>) in context.<p>Realistically, it would be both hard to change structurally and a hard sell for major labels to give up what is effectively <i>a subsidy of popular music by indie fans.</i> Let’s take the author’s thought experiment to its logical extreme:<p>Imagine “Terry” listened to just one obscure band for the entire month of February. $7 of his $10 subscription fee is going to artists, but let’s say he’s also the only fan of that band on Spotify. So that band has effectively zero percent of Spotify’s plays for the month, meaning that the band gets effectively zero percent of Spotify’s monthly revenue.<p>Terry thinks $7 went to his favorite band, but it actually got divided up among February’s top 40, with only a fraction of a fraction of a cent going to the band!
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genericuserabout 10 years ago
His proposition may sound simple to him, but it really isn&#x27;t.<p>It becomes very hard to ensure you are being paid properly in his proposed scenario, I would personally expect it would create even more controversy, or extremely long payment records every month for artists.<p>For instance say we have 500 paid users. Lets call them user1 through user500. Each user listens to the same number of songs a month as the value following the word user in their name. Then we have 500 different rates at which artists are paid for their song playing ranging from the entire monthly fee to 1&#x2F;500th the monthly fee. Therefore providing a full accounting of each of those rates would be necessary for an artist to understand why they got paid more the month they had a single play than the month they had 400 plays.<p>To be fair assuming the minimum song length on Spotify is 30 seconds this record provided to artists would have a max length of (31 * 24 * 60 * 2)+1 = 89281 items for premium users plus items for add supported users if they did not overlap exactly in rate. Assuming all Premium users paid the same rate, which is not the case.<p>Edit: I ignored the 0 listen use case, as well as spotify&#x27;s 30% cut to simplify an already complicated &#x27;simple proposal&#x27;. I also forgot to account for daylight savings time in which a day can have 25 hours.
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kforabout 10 years ago
Vulfpeck is also the band behind Sleepify[1], the album of ten silent 30s songs which fans looped on Spotify while they slept. Vulfpeck earned $20k as a result and used it to organize a tour.<p>[1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleepify" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sleepify</a>
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mbestoabout 10 years ago
Two things:<p>1) I think Ek is right - there isn&#x27;t much money in the consumption of music. I do believe music is extremely effective at getting people&#x27;s attention, but outside of that, it&#x27;s value is much lower than we currently give it credit for.<p>2) I&#x27;m reminded of the TED Talk by Clay Shirky on institutions vs collaboration[0] where he explains power law distribution (watch from 6:01 onward specifically) with regard to photos of Iraq on Flickr. He says (paraphrased) &quot;that figure at the bottom at 10 photos per photographer is a lie. it doesn&#x27;t matter...the top 10% of the most prolific photographers account for almost 75% of the photos. 80% of the contributors are below the average amount of contributions&quot; This is Spotify in a nutshell. People wan&#x27;t access to all of the rap music in the world even if they are only going to actually consume 20% of it, so that in the rare chance they listen to one song of the other 80% that it&#x27;s still made available. In other words, the overall utility of Spotify&#x27;s system is only valid when it&#x27;s whole, but the individuals who are necessary for it to be whole are unevenly distributed (in this case number of plays). So the argument then becomes who needs who more?<p>[0] - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPQViNNOAkw&amp;t=361" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=sPQViNNOAkw&amp;t=361</a>
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tpeatonabout 10 years ago
Spotify has been villified since the beginning, and I certainly want a more fair system to exist for artists.<p>That said, has there EVER been a business model in the US that was profitable for artists? I don&#x27;t think there was ever money in music for artists from album sales.<p>The cost of distributing and promoting music is just more expensive than making an album.
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ilamontabout 10 years ago
<i>Artists are frustrated. And lite listeners should be too.</i><p>Artists who don’t like it or aren’t getting enough value — either through payouts or marketing - should simply opt out of the system (if they can; in many cases control might rest with their record label or another rights holder). Some artists never opted in (the last time I checked, this included AC&#x2F;DC) or withdrew part or all of their collections (Taylor Swift).<p>I’ve watched the Spotify model appear in the ebooks marketplace, through services such as Oyster and Scribd. They target readers, and ultimately seek to ensure large payouts to investors, platform owners, and large publishing partners. Authors have largely been treated as an afterthought. Kindle Unlimited is even worse, demanding exclusivity and lowering sales of many authors.(1)<p>I believe the time has come for recording artists, filmmakers, authors, and other media producers to band together to fight unfair or predatory platform practices. Subscription services may be great for consumers, but they don’t pay enough to the people who are creating the products that draw audiences in the first place.<p>1. <a href="http://www.kboards.com/index.php?topic=202571.0" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kboards.com&#x2F;index.php?topic=202571.0</a>
Flimmabout 10 years ago
Jack Stratton is correct in pointing out that less active users are subsidising active users.<p>However, he then makes the leap that that means that less popular artists are subsidising the popular ones, which has yet to be proved.
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kazinatorabout 10 years ago
The proposition in the article only works because users pay a fixed monthly rate for unlimited listening, rather than a charge that is metered based on how much they stream.<p>Jack Stratton&#x27;s proposition is wagered on the proposition that the users who listen to his tracks are ones who don&#x27;t listen to very much other stuff. His listeners pay $9.99 per months, but don&#x27;t stream very much, and a big chunk of what they do stream is Stratton&#x27;s material. He doesn&#x27;t want most of that $9.99 going to those other damn artists, who are just random junk whose material isn&#x27;t sought out by anyone, but streamed randomly in Yoga classes, elevators, supermarkets or wherever.<p>If there is some user who paid $9.99, 70% of which is $7 going to the artists, and half of what that user listened to was Stratton&#x27;s tracks, Stratton wants $3.50 for that month, for that user alone. Add to that other similar users, and extrapolate to twelve months and you have some non-negligible cash at the end of the year: better than a fraction of a cent.<p>Problem is, no matter how you slice the pie, it is a zero-sum game. There is so much revenue and so many artists. Most artists, likely including Stratton, will lose this zero-sum game no matter how the pie is carved.<p>There is little difference between 99% of the artists getting peanuts, and 100% of the artists getting peanuts. The proposed rule would just create a tiny group which gets quite a lot more revenue than the rest, at the cost of slightly impoverishing every member of the remaining group, who then gets a slightly smaller fraction of a cent.<p>It&#x27;s actually a good rule from Spotify&#x27;s POV because this tiny group would represent &quot;success stories&quot; which Spotify could use for promotion.<p>On a different topic, this kind of reminds me of the whiners who complain about online dating sites. <i>&quot;I&#x27;m obviously a more qualified bachelor than most of the losers who make profiles on this site, so if only the implementation of the site were based on somewhat different rules, then I would easily get replies from the women I&#x27;m interested in. I might have found a girlfriend long ago if it weren&#x27;t for this damn dating site. Waaaah ... sniff!&quot;</i>
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nicpottierabout 10 years ago
Is the description of Spotify&#x27;s model to pay artists accurate? It sounds suspiciously simple, free of any special deals with labels to get artists on board etc... (which I had just assumed was a necessary evil)<p>And do total stream divisions take into account only premium accounts? Or do they also include free ones? Because ya, as a premium user, I really do want (and perhaps naively expected) my $9&#x2F;mo split between the artists I listen to, which certainly seems the fairest.
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weissadamabout 10 years ago
I think the problem is that there is no distinction made between computer generated playlists (eg: Yoga Radio) and listener initiated streams.<p>Why not keep the existing royalty structure, but split the royalty pie based on user initiated streams and computer generated streams. If someone buys premium and only listens to Yoga Radio:<p><pre><code> 30% Spotify 70% Existing Yoga Radio Big Pool Royalty Structure </code></pre> But if 50% of their listening is actual artists they have chosen (download to phone, click on artist&#x2F;album or song&#x2F;shared playlist from someone else&#x2F;own playlist):<p><pre><code> 30% Spotify 35% Existing Yoga Radio Big Pool 35% Direct cut determined by per-listener chart </code></pre> Or if Mom signs up and only listens to her kid:<p><pre><code> 30% Spotify 0% Yoga Radio 70% Direct cut determined by per-listener chart (all to one with love from Mom) </code></pre> This not only rewards artists with loyal fanbases, but it also fairly compensates artists who compete in the mass market where people just listen to the radio and don&#x27;t care.<p>Best of both worlds, no?
corditeabout 10 years ago
I thought this (what is proposed) is how they already do it.<p>I guess not.<p>It does seem more fair for the artist this way, though it probably means they need to do more crunching with map reduce or something.
thomasahleabout 10 years ago
&gt; Terry is below average. In 2014 he averaged 350 streams per month. If his subscription money only went to artists he listened to, it would’ve been $0.02 per stream.<p>&gt; Instead it was $0.00786.<p>This sounds like a much better way to do it. The artists should ask Spotify to change it. However I guess the big players don&#x27;t really want it changed.
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adamcabout 10 years ago
Old geezer here: Does anyone know how often the songs on a CD are played? If I spent $10 on a CD, what was that likely to generate per-play? (I&#x27;m old enough that I remember taping LPs and then listening to the tapes -- which was a near-universal practice amongst the folks I knew.)<p>My guess is that great albums got listened to a lot -- driving down the revenue &quot;per play&quot; but generating great word of mouth and lots of net record&#x2F;cd sales. How much of that applies to Spotify?
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Animatsabout 10 years ago
Spotify&#x27;s &quot;all you can listen to&quot; model inherently implies they&#x27;re going to be used as background music.<p>Could be worse. They could have their own musicians record popular songs and classics, and just pay the statutory royalty to the composer. Seeburg did that in the 1950s.[1] They sold the Seeburg 1000 background music system, and rented out phonograph records of background music, all recorded by Seeburg musicians. Stores rented and serviced the simple record changer, which endlessly played a stack of 25 records (both sides), about 50 hours of music. It&#x27;s not a jukebox; it&#x27;s much simpler.<p>Instead of copyrighting the disks (back then you had to register a copyright and pay for renewals), they used a primitive form of DRM - the records are 16 2&#x2F;3 RPM, 9 inch diameter, 2 inch center hole, 0.005&quot; stylus width, mono. This is incompatible with everything except a Seeburg 1000, though it&#x27;s not hard to adapt a turntable to play them.<p>Someone has digitized the available Seeburg 1000 records, and you can listen to about 6000 songs of &#x27;50s - 70s background music.<p>[1] <a href="http://radiocoast.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;radiocoast.com&#x2F;</a>
breytenabout 10 years ago
1. As soon as I&#x27;m playing more tracks than the number of tracks an average user pays I&#x27;m actually paying less than what Spotify currently pays. 2. People who do not play much music will probably not be exposed to much else than well know artists (Ie. Top 40). Or otherwise said: if I&#x27;m into music and spend time discovering not-so well known bands I&#x27;ll probably play more tracks than the average user. 3. The number of people who will play less than the average number of tracks will be bigger than the number who play more.<p>The end result is that rich and well known artists will end up getting more money, and lesser known artists less.
malloreonabout 10 years ago
If someone started a service that did exactly this, would artists take their music off spotify and onto this new service?<p>Would the users follow?
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yermoshinabout 10 years ago
This is an interesting proposition, and one which I&#x27;m sure has been thought about and considered by the labels. However, I think people who think this would be better for indie artists are misguided.<p>The reason this change would very likely not benefit indie artists is simple:<p><i>People who listen to more music are more likely to have a high proportion of their music listening being &quot;indie&quot; than those people listening to less.</i><p>Pdpi&#x27;s example explains very nicely how this would benefit pop artists over indie.<p><i>Does this system have other benefits?</i><p>Yes, a wonderful inadvertent thing you get for free is eliminating fraud listening. People would be unable to create accounts to listen to one artist on repeat all month long and laugh six months later when the checks come in (see the Vulfpeck story for those unfamiliar)<p><i>Would some indie artists benefit from the change?</i><p>Yes, of course some artists wouldbenefit, that&#x27;s pretty much inevitable under any calculation methodology change.<p>None of this addresses the issue of time spent listening. Classical and Jazz payouts will consistently under-index people&#x27;s time spent listening simply because the track recordings are so much longer than the average recording length. A time spent listening payout system would be a huge improvement, but then you can imagine people trying to manipulate this (throwing 25 minutes of silence on the last track of the album anyone?). Smoke and mirrors...
baristaGeekabout 10 years ago
It&#x27;s incredible that there&#x27;s no money in a thing that has been a need for the human being for centuries. Actually entertainment in general, has been a need since the origin of our species.<p>The indie music industry as a whole is already selling more than the 3 major record labels together in the US. Once that 20th century model is 100% over, we will see technology doing really cool things in collaboration with music.
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cmdrfredabout 10 years ago
The real truth here is music is becoming cheaper and cheaper to make. A few grand worth of equipment is all that is required to generate most of the stuff you probably listen to, and if that isn&#x27;t the case now it will be in what 5? 10 years?<p>Also think about the talent pool. The only longer line at the job fair is probably for playboy photographer.<p>Tons of people wanting to make music + low barrier to entry = Cheap music<p>The only thing attempting to hold this dinosaur market afloat is monolithic record companies, and their stranglehold on the popular genre seems to give them enough leverage to arrange a deal in their favor. Hence what we observe here.<p>What will likely end up happening is the next cost of music will become zero to the end user and bands and artists will find new revenue streams. Such as live performances, or perhaps product placement. Or does economics not apply to art?*<p>*I&#x27;m the weird guy who doesn&#x27;t like music so I may be entirely wrong.
prostoalexabout 10 years ago
There&#x27;s some audio content that fits Spotify model better, since it&#x27;s optimized for endless replays<p>* dance&#x2F;electronic<p>* elevator music<p>* toddler songs (audience loves hearing that same song for 1,000th time)<p>On the other end of the spectrum you have audio content that is intended to be listened to once, with extremes being audio books and radio news.<p>An artist optimizing for endless replays would do well on Spotify: &quot;E.D.M. artists like Avicii and David Guetta are seeing payouts in the millions. Avicii’s “Wake Me Up,” the most streamed song on Spotify, has more than three hundred million spins, which, using Spotify’s benchmark per-stream rate, would be worth about two million dollars to the rights holders.&quot; <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/11/24/revenue-streams" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;2014&#x2F;11&#x2F;24&#x2F;revenue-streams</a><p>But it&#x27;s not perfect model for every artist out there.
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patmccabout 10 years ago
Why are light listeners like the example paying for Spotify? Shouldn&#x27;t they just stick to the free version rather than going for premium?<p>Following this suggested model, free users listening wouldn&#x27;t help the artists at all - is that really desirable?
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rorykoehlerabout 10 years ago
Spotify should set aside X% of their equity and distribute it to artists. Each full play of a track would generate one &#x27;artist&#x27; share. Then when they exit each artist gets their fair share. For example (to keep it simple I will use small numbers) let&#x27;s say there are 100 plays in total on Spotify before they sell up, 1 of which belongs to Vulpeck (awesome band) then Vulpeck get 1% of X%. This way everyone gets paid fairly. The way it is now Spotify are basically monetising piracy. All the major labels have invested and are waiting for their pay day while the people who produce the content get shafted.
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sgwealtiabout 10 years ago
I don&#x27;t see much discussion of Spotify&#x27;s role in setting their subscription pricing. I think this is an area where artists have a legitimate gripe.<p>For example, in a hypothetical world let&#x27;s say Spotify could capture a high amount of market share and still be profitable at $0.10&#x2F;month. If they had the same revenue split they could say that they are giving artists 70% (0.07&#x2F;month). I think the artists would rightfully complain that Spotify is devaluing their product.<p>Artists like Taylor Swift are starting to catch on but people act like she&#x27;s greedy and out of touch when she pulls her catalog.
dandareabout 10 years ago
Am I the only one here who is tired by artist complaining that we don&#x27;t sufficiently support their preferred lifestyle? Also, the whole argument is straw-man, read what &quot;pjc50&quot; wrote.
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Tarangabout 10 years ago
I think it depends on who the artist is. For the most popular the artists wouldn&#x27;t be complaining about being paid too little.<p>Either way if a formula change, distributing earnings based on an individual user instead of the whole pool, means the popular songs would earn far less.<p>It also means if someone listens to one song that would earn more than someone who loves music and pays the same thing!<p>I would argue the formula isn&#x27;t wrong its difficult comparing an total Audio CD sales vs a lifetime NPV of music played on Spotify for an author.
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pjc50about 10 years ago
I&#x27;m not clear on what the difference would be, from his explanation. Is he splitting by &quot;artists listened to ignoring count of times streamed&quot;? (So someone who listens to <i>only</i> vulfpeck 1000 times and Daft Punk once pays each $5)<p>Or is it &quot;for each user, divide their $10 by the number of streams they played and pay that to the copyright holder of the streams played?&quot; So the more streams you listen to the less artists get paid for that?
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ericdykstraabout 10 years ago
If you want to support your favorite music artists, send them money directly. That&#x27;s basically the only way you can ensure a reasonable portion goes into their pocket.<p>Services like Spotify don&#x27;t support independent, awesome musicians that you love enough to give them even a bad living. If someone creates art that touches you and improves your life, figure out a way to support them in a way that actually makes a difference.
codybabout 10 years ago
His final comment &quot;and listeners should be to0.&quot;, I&#x27;m not sure I understand?<p>How does Terry&#x27;s subsidization of yoga studios make any difference for Terry&#x27;s listening experience?<p>Unless it&#x27;s a very deep point in that Terry&#x27;s subsidization, if it didn&#x27;t happen, would cause more small artists to pop up onto the scene thus increasing the diversity of the catalog.
kuduabout 10 years ago
This is a terrible idea, in my opinion. It would effectively cause users to &quot;budget&quot; the music they play, e.g.: &quot;If I play that Rihanna song after playing 10 songs from my favorite indie band this month, it&#x27;ll severely dilute the money going to them.&quot; The last thing Spotify wants is people not playing music for moral reasons.
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bbarnabout 10 years ago
Any discussion of how to split revenues is pointless without data about what paying users listen to. Top 40 listeners may percentage-wise be a much lower paying audience. Lots of the top 40 is aimed at teen&#x2F;youth users, who have lots of hardware given to them, but not lots of subscription revenue or credit cards necessarily.
higherpurposeabout 10 years ago
Spotify should create app store-like programs, where artists can choose to &quot;self-publish&quot; and get 70 percent of the revenue. If they are already doing that, then maybe they should promote it more, because I&#x27;m not hearing about too many artists joining such a program. Most still use Spotify through labels.
kforabout 10 years ago
Site appears to be buckling under the load, here&#x27;s the Google cache: <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JiivGj-Vg10J:lit.vulf.de/spotify-so-little/+&amp;cd=1&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;webcache.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:JiivGj-...</a>
nacho2sweetabout 10 years ago
Splitting with everyone is better because it gets the majors on Spotify which you need to give the service legitimacy.<p>Major studios are bringing brands to Spotify, indies are draws but aren&#x27;t big draws. They will put their stuff on Soundcloud and stream it for free to get ears to get concerts.
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rainmakingabout 10 years ago
I have started a petition on change.org for this, please sign it:<p><a href="https://www.change.org/p/spotify-ltd-pay-artists-from-the-people-that-listen-to-them" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.change.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;spotify-ltd-pay-artists-from-the-pe...</a><p>Suggestions for improvements welcome.
owlyabout 10 years ago
Question: If spotify isn&#x27;t a good deal for indy artist, why don&#x27;t they all abandon the platform and use an alternative? Like Bandcamp, which you mentioned pays 8x. Come on artists, I dare you to?! :) Or are you afraid of subverting the dominant paradigm?
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pbreitabout 10 years ago
The OP&#x27;s idea does make some sense but so does Spotify&#x27;s current scheme. The one area where there should absolutely be differentiated pricing is &quot;radio-style&quot; listens vs on demand listens (which should generate much more revenue for artist).
nickbaumabout 10 years ago
I would love for a portion of my Spotify subscription to be discretionary, so I could proactively reward bands I love. In fact, I would gladly pay $2-5 extra a month for this feature.<p>Here&#x27;s how it could work. Every month, I&#x27;d get an email with the top 20 artists I listened to that month (stats! fun!). By default, my contribution goes to my most listened artist. I don&#x27;t need to do a thing.<p>If I want, I can manually go in and change the contribution to another artist – say I listened to the new Kanye album a ton, but would rather give my extra dollars to my second-most-listened, way-less-famous artist.<p>I believe a lot of people get real personal value out of supporting artists they believe in. Right now, the best way to do this is to go to shows and buy merch.<p>Optional donations as describe above are an opportunity for Spotify to increase the amount of money spent on music, while generating lots of goodwill from users and artists alike.
aczerepinskiabout 10 years ago
In the 90s I bought hundreds of CDs that cost $20-$25 each, inflation adjusted. Now albums are delivered at better than CD quality, and cost only $10. Supporting the music you love is cheaper than it&#x27;s ever been. Why opt out of it?
hobarreraabout 10 years ago
&gt; Normal listeners are subsidizing yoga studios that play Spotify all day.<p>I didn&#x27;t go thorugh Spotify&#x27;s TOS, but is it allowed for commercial settings such as stores, studios, etc? I&#x27;d think the price would be for personal use only.
bakeabout 10 years ago
From another perspective, should artists all artists give up the same 30% to Spotify? Or should artists who benefit disproportionately from services like Discovery and Radio, presumably lesser-known artists, pay more?
SyncTheory13about 10 years ago
If Spotify or Google Music switched to the suggested model, or at least 50&#x2F;50 suggested&#x2F;current way - I&#x27;d happily subscribe IMMEDIATELY - probably even pay a family plan. Please?
jpalomakiabout 10 years ago
The Top-40 pop song probably has quite limited shelf life. It gets lots of plays for now, but some other track can make money for next 20-50+ years.
rgjabout 10 years ago
Venues playing music to their customers have to pay public performance license fees as well, so that skews the popular music subsidies even more?
B4CKlashabout 10 years ago
Licensed Use of Master — $0.00668<p>I can imagine this licensing fee differs largely and contributes heavily to Vulfpeck&#x27;s anecdote.
Sevzinnabout 10 years ago
At least for google play music, it will pop up a window if you don&#x27;t interact with the web page for a few hours.
corndogeabout 10 years ago
Streaming:<p>+ Huge catalogue on-demand<p>- Lower quality<p>- Latency, dropped streams<p>- Monthly subscription<p>- Artists get next to nothing<p>- Player lock-in<p>Hard disk:<p>+ Zero latency<p>+ Highest quality<p>+ Artists get everything<p>+ Any player<p>- Device storage limitations<p>- Heavy file transfers<p>I never understood why streaming caught on to begin with.
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decisivenessabout 10 years ago
Why not charge the listener per song play and pay the artist 70% of each play?
powatomabout 10 years ago
I can&#x27;t help but feel that all of these complaints about low pay etc are just a symptom of the new reality. I don&#x27;t really understand what people are expecting here. Distribution costs are minimal, audience is (kind-of) locked-in, discovery is relatively simple. The risk is almost entirely on Spotify&#x27;s end of things, rather than the artists. Yes, without the artists, Spotify doesn&#x27;t have a business - but without digital streaming services like Spotify, users could easily end up under an iTunes monopoly which probably wouldn&#x27;t be good for anybody (although I believe - may be wrong, but please correct me - that iTunes does give artists a better deal currently?). The world is going digital, and people want to stream stuff. That&#x27;s just a fact. Sure, many people will always buy CDs and LPs, but there being &#x27;no money&#x27; in recording music is hardly a new phenomenon - people have complained about it for years before digital streaming was even a thing.<p>I really do have sympathy that there isn&#x27;t much money in recorded music, but I do struggle to find a justification for why artists seem to think Spotify should be paying them more other than the fact that they just &#x27;want&#x27; it and need to make a living. I understand that completely - and honestly I&#x27;d probably pay a higher price for Spotify if they demanded it and the extra money went to artists.<p>I think the problem is this: the music industry in general has exploited artists for years. It is not a business that works in the artist&#x27;s favour, unless those artists are extremely popular (and even then, labels can seriously fuck artists over if they want to). Outside of the superstars, musicians may (not always, but often) fare better when they organise their own affairs - live performances, commissions for work, appearances, media, collaborations etc. They probably won&#x27;t get super-rich doing this, but it could be a decent income for the right artists. What we have instead is a situation where artists create music for a (more or less) one time cost (recording, mastering, equipment, studio time etc) and then hope to make the money back through physical sales, royalties, and performances. The problem, I feel, is that the initial costs of production are still high, but the distribution costs are now incredibly low, which means end-consumers are reluctant to pay higher prices. I don&#x27;t see any way around this other than altering the nature of the business itself. If production is always going to be a costly affair in the music world, then income from royalties through services like Spotify are destined to be considered low.<p>I honestly think there&#x27;s no real hope for any significant increase in income through digital services. Why should there be? There&#x27;s no technical reason to increase fees - distribution gets cheaper all the time. The only way to increase royalty payments generally is to either cut into profits, or pass the increase on to the customer - neither of which are sensible business decisions unless Spotify&#x27;s hand is forced.<p>We don&#x27;t really have a profitable relationship with music - the value we attach to a single track on iTunes or Spotify doesn&#x27;t reflect at all the costs to the artist - but unless artists can convince consumers to start paying a lot more, I just don&#x27;t think they&#x27;ll see significant returns from recorded music any time in the forseeable future. It&#x27;s just not an industry that pays particularly well. Production costs are high, distribution costs are low. Unless we alter the way music is produced, performed, and experienced, people won&#x27;t feel like paying more gives them any extra value. It&#x27;s an uphill battle.<p>I wish things were better for artists, but I just don&#x27;t see a way out of this is that doesn&#x27;t involve massively increasing price at the point of consumption.
diminotenabout 10 years ago
Does anyone have any information on how Google Music does it?<p>I love Google Music, and don&#x27;t understand why everyone&#x27;s so hopped up on Spotify, just because they were &quot;first&quot; to market (and they weren&#x27;t).
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ebbvabout 10 years ago
Radio never paid much for users either. The problem is nobody buys albums any more.<p>I think that&#x27;s because buying a digital album has so far been really unrewarding.<p>Artists need to come up with a package for their music that people actually want to buy.
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Dewieabout 10 years ago
Conventional music albums were known for only giving a small percentage of its sale value (minus retail and such, of course) to the actual artists. There didn&#x27;t seem to be much fuss around that. But now that artists are getting a raw deal when it comes to streaming their music, it&#x27;s practically a crime against humanity.<p>I guess the &quot;artists are being ripped off when it comes to record sales&quot; blew over several decades ago.
gcb0about 10 years ago
anecdote time: recently i my closest friends happen to be all musicians. I often try to get their opinion on piracy and online radios while selfishly trying to see a product idea... and their general opinion on online radios is that spotify is the god among them and that i&#x27;m evil and killing their industry for using pandora.