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Ask HN: How to move beyond “freelancer”?

322 pointsby ryanneviusabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;ve been doing freelance web development for the past 7 years. I have consistent work and &quot;OK&quot; pay. I&#x27;ve experimented with my rates over time, and am at a point where I have trouble finding work if I raise them...but become part of the &quot;commodity freelancer market&quot; if I charge less.<p>Last year, I had a client (who had their own client...which we&#x27;ll call the &quot;true client&quot;) for a big project. At the beginning of the project, upon receiving my quote, my client told me that it was &quot;way above&quot; what the true client was willing to pay. I asked for more clear budget numbers, and was told very clearly that it was 60% of my original quote. After days of negotiations, I ended up reducing my quote considerably. Keep in mind, this did NOT involve me reducing my rate; I know better.<p>Part-way through the project, I found out that not only was my original quote under the true client&#x27;s budget, but my client had also quoted them a price which was 3 times my original quote amount. Not only that...but they had used my quote to create their own, and then proceeded to cut me down farther.<p>I felt undervalued and belittled by the news. I wasn&#x27;t upset about another company profiting off of me (of course that&#x27;s going to happen by default, if I&#x27;m working through an intermediary). Rather, I was really bothered by the nickel-and-diming and flat-out lies I was told about the project&#x27;s constraints and budget.<p>Since that time, I&#x27;ve paid closer attention to the companies I work with. They&#x27;re consistently profiting off of me at ridiculous rates; however, if I raise my rates to compensate, I don&#x27;t get work. I&#x27;ve tried to form my own &quot;digital agency&quot; with another partner...but we had a harder time finding work as a new agency than as freelancers.<p><i></i>TL;DR:<i></i> I&#x27;m tired of being nickel-and-dimed, and want to move beyond the &quot;freelancer&quot; title. How did you become the digital agency that you are today? How did you drop the &quot;freelancer&quot; title and make something more of your daily life?

42 comments

exeliusabout 10 years ago
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you&#x27;re not a freelancer, you&#x27;re a contract developer. I make a lot of money off of guys like you, because I have relationships with the guys who ultimately hire you. They&#x27;re willing to pay me $120&#x2F;hr for a developer because they trust me to fix things if they get fucked up. I pay a staffing firm $90&#x2F;hr, and the staffing firm pays you $65&#x2F;hr. You get fucked over because you&#x27;re playing the wrong game; clients don&#x27;t pick up the phone and call you because you do good work, they pick up the phone and call you because they remember who you are and like you.<p>If you were really a &quot;freelancer&quot; or &quot;consultant&quot; instead of a contract developer, you would have these relationships yourself. You would be able to convince your clients to cut out the middleman and pay you $100&#x2F;hr instead of paying me $120&#x2F;hr. But first, you have to build that trust with the people ultimately paying for your services. This generally means upping your game with respect to salesmanship, which isn&#x27;t something you can &quot;hack&quot;. It also means turning down opportunities that may pay well, but don&#x27;t offer any opportunity for building relationships.<p>Again, that&#x27;s the thread that&#x27;s missing here: personal relationships. Get to know your clients, understand what needs they have, and make them like you enough as a person that they think &quot;Hey, I need a developer. I wonder if ryannevius is available?&quot; You and your friend had a hard time starting an agency because you don&#x27;t have a pool of potential clients because you don&#x27;t have that symbolic rolodex of people you can call. You&#x27;re selling professional services, and professional services are sold through person-to-person relationships.
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jolissabout 10 years ago
The most profitable advice I&#x27;ve gotten for charging good rates comes from two sources:<p>1. Jim Camp&#x27;s negotiation book, &quot;Start with No&quot;: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Start-No-Negotiating-Tools-that-ebook&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B003EY7JEE" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Start-No-Negotiating-Tools-that-ebook&#x2F;...</a> One key takeaway: You can refuse to compromise on your rates, provided that you can afford to walk away if necessary.<p>2. Patrick McKenzie&#x27;s (patio11&#x27;s) advice for moving beyond the &quot;freelancer&quot; title, in particular <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;10&#x2F;28&#x2F;dont-call-yourself-a-programmer&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;10&#x2F;28&#x2F;dont-call-yourself-a-pro...</a> and <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;09&#x2F;17&#x2F;ramit-sethi-and-patrick-mckenzie-on-getting-your-first-consulting-client&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;09&#x2F;17&#x2F;ramit-sethi-and-patrick-...</a><p>I used these strategies to double my daily rate as an Ember.js consultant from $1k to $2k, and it was a fairly straightforward exercise in the end.
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pauletienneyabout 10 years ago
I have been a web-dev freelancer for 5 years and is now building a small team to make quality websites (mostly webtools).<p>Some random things I learnt from the transition :<p>- The most interesting projects rarely (mostly never) relies on a one person &quot;team&quot;. Big projects are important for the customer and they need to know they will have someone to contact even if it&#x27;s holiday time. You want the true customer to buy from you interesting projects : don&#x27;t be alone.<p>- Once you have a team, you will look for interesting projects. They are more complicated to get. They often come from medium &#x2F; large organization. Those orgs. have important inertia. Projects can take weeks of month to start. Chase multiple projects at the same time.<p>- Once you have bigger project you must learn to make precise time evaluation. It is really complicated. It must be done before the project is sold but you must not spend too much time on it. It is key since you want to earn money (no brainer) but mostly to have a smooth production calendar.<p>In my case, we are just a team of two. I spend half time in sales activities and the other developing websites. My coworker is full time dev.<p>If you want to discuss in details, reply here or email me : paul@agence-donatello.fr<p>Good luck ! There are freakingly high mountains of demands and needs outside. You can take your piece.
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davemel37about 10 years ago
Seth Godin told me if you want to be a entrpreneuer, you need to hire others to do EVERYTHING you can possibly outsource.<p>Otherwise you will hire the cheapest labor -which is yourself...and you&#x27;ll never break free of being a freelancer.<p>My personal advice...the reason raising your rates isn&#x27;t working for you is because &quot;you don&#x27;t get the work.&quot; This is key...if you need the work, you will never successfully raise your rates.<p>I have fetched $350&#x2F;hr for SEM consulting...when you can easily hire an experienced pro for $50 and someone more experienced than me for $175. How do I charge that much? It&#x27;s simple. My opportunity cost let&#x27;s me turn down lower paying gigs.<p>The secret to winning a negotiation is going in believeing you can walk away without feeling like you missed out. If you can walk away....you are in the driver&#x27;s seat.
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oisinoabout 10 years ago
I did this successfully with my agency <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bootstrapheroes.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bootstrapheroes.com&#x2F;</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;experts.shopify.com&#x2F;socialproof-it" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;experts.shopify.com&#x2F;socialproof-it</a> we grew from a team of two to 10+. The biggest lesson I learned is if you want to create an agency you need to become one of the top experts in a specific area that is relatively new and growing like crazy. In new areas their is no experts so very easy in the beginning to become one or fake it until you are one. For me it was becoming one of the top Shopify app development experts. If I had tried to start an agency in a mature market like development for Magento&#x2F; Drupal sites I would have had a way harder time for their is lots of agencies with great track records in these areas.
cheetosabout 10 years ago
I freelanced full-time for several years. I had similar experiences.<p>I found that the key was to find clients who value your work. Working with individuals or small businesses can be tough because they are usually highly constrained by budget and do not understand everything that goes in to what you do. They want freelancers because they can&#x27;t afford full time people. They will compare you to the rates they can find on Craigslist or Elance and balk when you require market rates.<p>Instead, find startups with technical people doing the recruiting or large companies with established roles and processes for freelancers. They will at least understand market rates and what you actually do.<p>You also need to have the power to say no to clients. That usually means savings and the willingness to wait long periods between jobs in order to find the right one. For me, the hit rate of was 1 out of every 8-10 job opportunities.
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patio11about 10 years ago
My favorite post on HN: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4245960#up_4247615" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4245960#up_4247615</a>
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at-fates-handsabout 10 years ago
Here&#x27;s some solid advice which I used to make the transfer myself.<p>First of all, pick a niche industry and own it. Too many agencies I see are just out to make money by developing as many apps and sites as possible. This means a lot of cold calling into different industries and talking to a lot of different people with different needs. If you stick with one industry, pretty soon, you&#x27;ll find areas where you can really start to focus. This in turn makes you valuable to not only business, but then your name starts to get passed around since you have specific ways you&#x27;re helping other people in that industry. Less cold calling and more referrals is what follows then. I would also start locally, get as many customers in your local niche then broaden out, go regional, then national.<p>Secondly, the one thing that has made my agency successful is minimizing overhead. It&#x27;s basically me and my partner. We work from our homes, but are in constant contact with each other (technology is great ain&#x27;t it?). This means, no employees to pay, no office rent, no heating bills, no additional hardware or furniture. It allows us to keep our rates fairly low and still have a very nice profit margin since we have so little upfront costs. This also benefits our clients since it saves them money too.<p>Lastly, I use a progressive billing system. I start out working with my clients on an hourly rate - mainly doing consultation work. Then once we start having steady work, I go to them and say, &quot;Hey, you&#x27;re paying a lot for my hourly rate since and we&#x27;re always doing work for you, why don&#x27;t we just set up a monthly total (a 5-8% discount off my hourly rate) with a minimum of hours I need to work for your company each month and go from there?&quot; 90% of our clients have switched over to a monthly or yearly billing subscription. This is a biggie since you don&#x27;t have to worry so much about where your next project is coming from, you can really focus on your clients and know you have a steady stream of revenue coming in. This also allows you to continue to cold call and bring in new business - makes a huge difference compared to working project to project.<p>Hope this helps!
davismwflabout 10 years ago
Most people run into this at some point. Many times a business will try and take advantage of freelancers and beat you down on rate because &quot;some guy&quot; is 50% cheaper or whatever. You have to learn to walk away from these deals, that is part of what changes you from freelancer to consultant. A consultant knows to walk away from these deals or arguments because you cannot win in a race to the bottom. Not that being a consultant is better than being a freelancer, I just feel it is a mental shift in how you approach deals and set them up.<p>People have suggested building our own product. That is all well and good, and honestly at some point you will want to stop selling your time because your time is finite and can&#x27;t be scaled. That&#x27;s when product development becomes more attractive. But if you are still having fun writing other peoples stuff and just want to get out of a rut and increase your rate then you can do that.<p>Pricing is a skill, we charge weekly rates (based on 32hrs) per person and honestly most clients equate that to an hourly rate in the end. We also set a minimum charge for all projects and bill based upon value delivered instead of hours when appropriate, for example, we just picked up a small project &lt; 1 week in duration where we charged $7k. Every time a potential client starts trying to negotiate our rate down, I move the conversation to value and most of the time I can win solid deals and I don&#x27;t negotiate my rate down. I have in the past, but once someone knows you will negotiate your rate, they will always go for more and you end up in a death spin to the bottom.
slamusabout 10 years ago
Nice thread there since I&#x27;m pretty new in Web Dev+Design freelancing (2y part-time, 7m full-time), but I think I&#x27;ve got in touch with a hint of an answer few days ago.<p>Someone came to me 2 weeks ago with a clear idea of copying a website, because her business was in the same market. We finally met 3 days ago about her project, and she told me she has seen 5 freelancers and 2 agencies for her website, but she still wanted to speak with me because she wasn&#x27;t decided yet.<p>The first thing I asked her was: &quot;Can you explain me about your business ? And what process the customer is going through ?&quot;. Then we went through a pleasant hour-long brainstorming phase, until she realized her point was totally different from the existing website she wanted to copy, and that we ended up with a way better and more suited solution for her. She surpisingly said : &quot;You&#x27;re the only one that asked me those things, and I loved it!&quot;.<p>Then I asked her how it went with those 7 other clients and she told me nobody cared about her business, and how they only seemed to want to get the contract, at any price. Even though some of them looked professionals, she wasn&#x27;t sold.<p>After this meeting, I understood that a freelancer shouldn&#x27;t be positioned as an &quot;expert&quot; sitting at the opposite of his client, but as someone sitting alongside his client, as a friend caring about their goals. When you&#x27;re the right person, your time is invaluable, and your price will be the right one.<p>In conclusion, there is a lot of bad freelancers out there. Just be nice, get close to your client by genuinely caring about their problem, be honest , and you will build a strong network that will like you, trust you, and pay you well.
WhitneyLandabout 10 years ago
How much of a commodity is your work? Are you doing work that most web devs could do? For example vanilla PHP is easier to find than a cutting edge SPA developer who knows the latest frameworks, architecting important services, etc.<p>How good are your communication skills? In consulting&#x2F;freelance&#x2F;contract this is huge. You will never be able to charge as much as someone who has great rapport with the customer, articulates points in a clear way, and shows understanding of the big picture goals.<p>How big are the companies you work with? As a rule of thumb small companies are not usually paying the highest rates. Small companies have more interesting work, but pick your poison.<p>What percentile are you capabilities in? This requires some brutal self honesty but usually it&#x27;s harder to get top rates if you are not at the top of your field.<p>Do you try to work remote? Jobs usually pay more if you are willing to stay on site most of the time. Hate this but it&#x27;s true.<p>Do you have an impressive portfolio of work to show? When people see it do they &quot;ok, thanks&quot;, or do they say &quot;wow that&#x27;s really cool&quot;?<p>The good news is you can change and improve everything on this list.
rdayabout 10 years ago
It sounds like you are a successful freelancer. What you are trying to become is a successful business owner.<p>You need to hire a couple people to write code, and start selling full time. This is where things get hard. I haven&#x27;t made it work correctly yet either. Good luck!
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zkhaliqueabout 10 years ago
It&#x27;s all about relationships and the client&#x27;s experience. If it helps, think of the clients as users of an app, who go through an onboarding process. How do they discover the app? What do they associate with the brand? What steps do they go through and what is the conversion rate on the &quot;funnel&quot;?<p>You simply build your brand, including a website, a blog and attract people to it. Get known widely (by having content that people share) and deeply (through good work and referrals). This takes time to build. But it&#x27;s like any other brand.<p>Basically, you need a brand, and cultivate relationships. Probably the best two pieces of advice I can give you are:<p>1) Make it safe to fail, so you can iterate and try better things. For example, have 100 users and only try a particular pricing or offer with 5 of them. A&#x2F;B test various website designs, email marketing strategies, etc. Partner with one or more business developers who are passionate about client relations, and give them % of PROJECTS, not the company. This way, if anything fails, it doesn&#x27;t bring down the whole thing. And you can do this &quot;all day&quot; because your expected value is always nonzero, so the more you do it, the more you get. You can even hire others to do your job for you - again, on commission. Like 2 levels of MLM.<p>2) Establish relationships before you need them. Network, and let people know what you need without pushing them. Over time when you really need something, you do 90% of the work (set up the whole experience etc) and let them know how they can be of help by doing only 10% of the work. Something simple and well-defined that starts off your onboarding process. Inbound leads basically, and &quot;warm introductions&quot;.
einarvollsetabout 10 years ago
To get more in depth than patio11&#x27;s link below, I would recommend looking at Brennan Dunn&#x27;s courses (the free one is great to get started), and at the risk of being accused of self promotion: sign up to my course at: productizedconsulting.com (free and my own service was inspired by Patrick and Brennan&#x27;s workshop a while back)<p>The TLDR is: package a small part of your expertise as a product, and sell it as a SaaS. Having dependable recurring revenue is a game changer.
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BuckRogersabout 10 years ago
&quot;but my client had also quoted them a price which was 3 times my original quote amount.&quot;<p>There&#x27;s your answer. You just found your new rates. Get a part-time dev job if you lose work for a while, to keep the lights on. Stick to that 3X amount and don&#x27;t waver. Profit.
getdavidhigginsabout 10 years ago
I wrote about how I stopped freelancing and joined an agency. If you can&#x27;t setup your own one (for whatever reason), then it&#x27;s worth looking around for existing agencies who have established themselves and know all the ropes. Here&#x27;s my post: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.higg.im&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;06&#x2F;freelancing-financial-freedom&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.higg.im&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;06&#x2F;freelancing-financial-freedom...</a><p>My post was inspired by a great book called &quot;stop thinking like a freelancer&quot;. It&#x27;s a good read ― <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;myshar.es&#x2F;freelancer-book" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;myshar.es&#x2F;freelancer-book</a>
gk1about 10 years ago
You can consider becoming a consultant. See &quot;Don&#x27;t Call Yourself a Programmer&quot;[0] by Patrick McKenzie. Also see the link he posted to another thread.[1]<p>You&#x27;re being nickel-and-dimed because you don&#x27;t value yourself enough. Stop charging hourly rates and stop working for middlemen.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;10&#x2F;28&#x2F;dont-call-yourself-a-programmer&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;10&#x2F;28&#x2F;dont-call-yourself-a-pro...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4245960#up_4247615" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4245960#up_4247615</a>
mgkimsalabout 10 years ago
Finding direct clients&#x2F;projects&#x2F;work is the harder work, and as such, you&#x27;ll make more when people come to you directly, but you&#x27;ll need to spend time actually making connections and selling (vs being sold).<p>What are you doing to find work directly?
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jakejakeabout 10 years ago
There are a lot of ways to do it as proved by the comments here. My personal move from freelancer to &quot;company&quot; was a slow transition that involved moving away from clients that nickel-n-dime and moving towards those who do not.<p>For me, life did not really get easier until I had a roster of clients that wanted repeat work - either as a formal retainer, or just a somewhat regular billing amount each month.<p>Rate hike was one technique which rid me of a client that was too much hassle, but as you know it takes a lot of guts to let go of a paying customer. You claim that raising your rates led to losing work. You do lose clients when you raise rates, that is the point. You don&#x27;t want to employ this strategy if you have zero clients who are willing to stick around at the higher rate.<p>Another is actively seeking out your own clients to cut out the middle-man. I found my sweet spot with small (10-50) companies who did not have full-time programmers on staff and were located in my area. It took me about five years of actively seeking clients and word-of-mouth to get a decent business going.
ghufran_syedabout 10 years ago
I would strongly recommend reading the following book: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Go-Alone-Streetwise-Secrets-Employment-ebook&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B005CCUGDM&#x2F;?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1427731688" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Go-Alone-Streetwise-Secrets-Employment...</a> It&#x27;s very clear and accessible, and is aimed at people with domain knowledge but not business knowledge and experience. It&#x27;s consistent with the excellent advice offered by others in this thread, in book length.<p>I&#x27;m getting my cofounders to read it now, I first read it 12 years ago, and I still think it&#x27;s the single best introduction to business and sales skills I&#x27;ve seen, despite having read a LOT of such books before, during and since my MBA. Good luck with the business!
oplessabout 10 years ago
I left &quot;freelancing&quot; to do &quot;Contracting&quot; as I was in a similar position.<p>Alas this also means that I often need to actually turn up to the clients office.<p>Working though an agency has similar issues, as you describe, but let&#x27;s face it - no-one likes paying their bills or pay the full whack for stuff.<p>It&#x27;s just the cost of doing business.<p>The only way (that I can see) to totally escape is to actually make something other people will want to buy and sell direct.
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ghufran_syedabout 10 years ago
It&#x27;s also worth quoting the famous business aphorism: &quot;Production - Sales = Scrap&quot;<p>In your case, production is worth 3 times what you quoted the middleman (because the end customer was willing to pay it), what you got was scrap value, and the difference between your price and the end-customer price is the value the middleman created by selling well. TL;DR: Learn to sell!!! :-)
danschumannabout 10 years ago
Don&#x27;t you have a considerable portfolio and work history? Even if you went through an intermediary before, you should be able to prove you did the work, right? Whatever your weaknesses are, play them out as strengths.<p>If you don&#x27;t have a huge history as a &#x27;company&#x27;, that&#x27;s not a weakness, because you can pay more attention to each new client you get.
ffnabout 10 years ago
My personal trick was to move the hell out of SF and the Bay Area (this could be generalized to out of any large concentrated hub of people who also do the same thing as you). If you&#x27;re not dealing with tons of other engineers who need odds and ends like dev tools, integration testing, api adapters, and other such things that will never see the light of the outside world, you can get much &quot;better&quot; terms on your projects. For example, if your client is a starving country musician in backwater Louisiana, you can build his entire website for him and charge him a portion of whatever album sales happen through his website. This means a lot less upfront $$, a little more risk, but generally much more stable long term pay-offs because you&#x27;ve aligned your mutual incentives.
namuolabout 10 years ago
1. Meet and befriend more freelancers of similar caliber and complementary skillsets.<p>2. Help each other find new clients and pool your incoming work.<p>3. Hire subcontractors for the little stuff that piles up.<p>4. Slowly back away from the less interesting stuff, and take on the most-interesting&#x2F;high-paying&#x2F;high-responsibility jobs.
JSeymourATLabout 10 years ago
This post has received several excellent tips and reading suggestions already.<p>If you&#x27;re looking to up your game from Freelancer&#x2F;Contractor, you&#x27;ll do well to read Alan Weiss, The Guru of building a successful consulting business &gt; <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Million-Dollar-Consulting-Alan-Weiss&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0071622101&#x2F;ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1427816142&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=weiss+million+dollar+consulting" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Million-Dollar-Consulting-Alan-Weiss&#x2F;d...</a>
homakovabout 10 years ago
Maybe in webdev it is different but my story is simple - offer clients something they cannot get anywhere else. I offer rails security audit and charge minimum 375 per hour, but usually around 500.<p>Bugs I find can save clients millions. Others firms in the industry charge 200-250 but I truly don&#x27;t care - they don&#x27;t have what we have. Find your niche.<p>Oh, and marketing of course. I had plain text website but new version gets better conversion see sakurity.com
driverdanabout 10 years ago
Stop working for agencies and work with the end clients. You&#x27;ll have to work harder to find clients but you will be valued and will make more money.
jseligerabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m coming at this question from the other side, as a person who has hired web developers, and orthogonally, as a person who also works in a small consulting business.<p>1. Word-of-mouth.<p>2. I do grant writing for nonprofit and public agencies, and we occasionally get pitches for the &quot;true client,&quot; and we always tell the would-be middlemen to just send the true client to us. This almost never happens, and in reality there is rarely a true client, and even if there is the middleman won&#x27;t pay our rate because we&#x27;re already near the top of the market (see point 4).<p>3. You might not be able to move beyond &quot;freelancer&quot; without getting a conventional job or starting a startup.<p>4. If you can&#x27;t find a way to charge more you may have found the market rate for what you&#x27;re doing and who you&#x27;re doing it for. In my consulting firm ~$200&#x2F;hour is the top market rate. We can&#x27;t functionally charge more.<p>5. I don&#x27;t want to be a jerk, but I wonder how your sales and marketing skills rank. I wrote more about that issue here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jakeseliger.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;04&#x2F;07&#x2F;how-i-learned-about-assertiveness-and-reality-from-being-a-consultant" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jakeseliger.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;04&#x2F;07&#x2F;how-i-learned-about-assert...</a>. In many small consulting firms, sales and marketing are at least as important as product. Have you thought about hiring a business or voice coach? What&#x27;s your sales funnel like?<p>I do know that we&#x27;re in the process of hiring a firm to re-do our website, and we found a couple through <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wpengine.com&#x2F;partners&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wpengine.com&#x2F;partners&#x2F;</a> and one through our ISP. One guy we sent an email to, and he said he didn&#x27;t talk on the phone. Not surprisingly he&#x27;s off the list: If he&#x27;s that uninterested or busy <i>before</i> we send him a lot of money, what&#x27;s he going to be like <i>after</i>?. We found an outfit named Orange Blossom: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;orangeblossommedia.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;orangeblossommedia.com&#x2F;</a> that has an impressive portfolio, and they seemed to understand the non-standard stuff we needed. CohoWeb: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cohoweb.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cohoweb.com&#x2F;</a> is another favorite, and they came through our ISP. In both cases their sales guys were efficient.<p>Clients often have a hard time evaluating consultants. That&#x27;s one reason we&#x27;ve been writing a blog for the last seven years: We&#x27;re professional writers, and the blog does at least show that we can write, and it also attracts a lot of potential clients via search traffic. How are your clients finding you?<p>If your sales and marketing are not very hot—and I&#x27;m not saying that, but I am saying it&#x27;s possible—you may want to consider trying to work for Orange Blossom or someone else on the WP-Engine list.
scottmcleodabout 10 years ago
Do good work. Over, and over, and over (referrals).<p>Know your worth. Be increasing your rates ever 6-12 months based on how much learning you&#x27;ve accomplished.<p>You&#x27;re a consultant, not a freelancer. You want to be paid for your deep expertise and experience, not just your ability execute code&#x2F;pixels&#x2F;words etc.
matiabout 10 years ago
Care to share your email in your profile? Would love to follow up with you as I am looking into the same problem as well.
chocksyabout 10 years ago
It&#x27;s hard to build a team. We are working on that for 3 years now. Since we are in a developing country clients expect lower rates.<p>But you have to stick to your rates no matter what. Usually the good clients come once you can provide good quality work. Word of mouth is much powerful that anything.
gesmanabout 10 years ago
Freelancing is very competitive with lots of supply. Hence struggles with rates.<p>Build and sell your own product or service. This also will carry way higher residual value than hit-and-run freelancing gigs.
Mandatumabout 10 years ago
You&#x27;ve been doing web development for 7 years and you&#x27;re not familiar with this practice?<p>Get involved in a business before you try to start a consultancy&#x2F;agency.
Uninexabout 10 years ago
Don&#x27;t sacrifice quality for nothing!
nedwinabout 10 years ago
Check out doubleyourfreelancingrate.com.
Uninexabout 10 years ago
Everyone is finding ways to save money!
nickraushenbushabout 10 years ago
It sounds like you want to create a company (digital agency) as opposed to a sole proprietorship (freelancer). This doesn&#x27;t mean that you need to start a huge company, but it does mean that you need more infrastructure. Infrastructure will give you more leverage.<p>I founded Glass &amp; Marker (www.glassandmarker.com) with 2 creative directors who were tired of being paid low freelance rates, and working at big agencies who stepped on their ideas. Today, we&#x27;ve been in business 4 years, and we have a strong portfolio of tech clients (including over a dozen YC alum companies!), and a much larger team. I helped my partners by building business infrastructure; a strong and profitable vehicle to make content for our clients.<p>My business partners and I complimented each other because they wanted someone to run the agency who knew how to (1) generate new business (2) negotiate (3) ride the delicate balance of client management and enforcing the rules of the SOW (4) manage employees and (5) identify new areas for growth and scalability (expanding services, hiring, pricing, etc.).<p>My advice would be to find your business counterpart. Let him or her handle all money, contracts, difficult client scenarios, and all of the other stuff that aren&#x27;t interested in. You have much better things to do with your time and your talents. In looking for a business partner, I recommend identifying a candidate with these characteristics:<p>-Transparency&#x2F;Honesty: Clearly you don&#x27;t like it when you have a client who is shielding the truth from you. 3x markup on your work is too much, especially if they are getting that while asking you to drive their price down (if you got to name your ideal price, it doesn&#x27;t matter if they made 10X). Find a partner who speaks truthfully and doesn&#x27;t mind pulling back the curtain on finances, even in front of client. I do this, and it has always been appreciated.<p>-Confidence: Your work is valuable. You want someone who understands that, and isn&#x27;t going to wimp in the negotiation with the client. Sales hungry leaders often short themselves because they can&#x27;t play chicken with the client. Get someone who will hold their ground in the sale. Ditto on revisions. Not that you want someone who is keen on conflict, but don&#x27;t get someone who is conflict averse or passive aggressive. When clients get pissed about overages (even though they totally blew past the scope), your partner should be able to resolve conflicts while making the client both feel positive about the work and paying the additional fee.<p>-Meticulousness: If I let a client get a revision for free, it is definitely not because I&#x27;m obligated to. I made sure that my contracts were written simply, and effectively. That gives me confidence that if I had to, I would be entitled to enforce a tough client decision. I have NOT ONCE had to use a contract on a client and my agency has had over 130 engagements to date. I&#x27;m also organized with my account management, and I&#x27;ve trained my account managers to be this way. When a client first takes a step outside of bounds, we address it politely, immediately, and clearly. We don&#x27;t let small grievances build up until the final stages of the project. Organized and meticulous communication is key, and your business partner should be a master of this.<p>Those are my initial thoughts.<p>TL;DR: Sounds like you need a business partner. Let him or her handle all money, contracts, difficult client scenarios, and make you more profitable. Find someone who is honest, transparent, confident, and meticulous.
ebbvabout 10 years ago
Sounds like the middle man you worked with was an asshole. What&#x27;s the lesson there? Don&#x27;t work with that company&#x2F;person. And think about what signs you can look for in future partners that can tell you they are a similar sort of asshole.<p>The &quot;true client&quot; proves there&#x27;s business for you to get which will pay you what you want to be paid. Go out and find the customers. That&#x27;s really what it comes down to.
beachstartupabout 10 years ago
there&#x27;s plenty of other good advice here, but unless you&#x27;re turning down 3-4 offers for every job you do accept, you&#x27;re not charging enough money. this is true <i>even when you&#x27;re not working</i>.<p>wrapping your head around this and going without a paycheck is tough. most people aren&#x27;t tough enough to deal with it, including you, until now. this is why agencies can charge 200% markup on your estimate AND screw you for 40% on the backend.
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MichaelCrawfordabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m looking to get away from contract programming, to being a consultant.<p>A contract programmer will write a software package, whether for an hourly or a fixed rate.<p>An example of consulting I&#x27;ve actually done, is that a client flew me from San Jose to Albuquerque to look into why his programmer&#x27;s application repeatedly crashed. After an hour or so of discussing it with him, I determined that his custom memory allocator was not respecting the alignment restrictions of the CPU.<p>That second case is what I&#x27;d like to do. It&#x27;s not about the money, it&#x27;s that I would like more people to benefit from my many years of experience.
ilakshabout 10 years ago
The trick is avoiding middlemen and finding rich clients. Its not easy and I haven&#x27;t figured it out. Maybe try to look more hipster.