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American students head to Germany for free college

191 pointsby carlosggabout 10 years ago

20 comments

iamjdgabout 10 years ago
I am on a temporary work assignment in Germany (2 years). I would come back in a minute if I wanted to further my education. Its a great country, safe, modern, and residents (permanent or not) get a lot of support from the government. Free university is for the German people, but they extend it to foreigners because Germany needs people and they hope they stay. I've learned a lot in Germany I will take back with me an apply to my work and everyday life (focus, directness, efficiency, attention to detail, basing decisions on first principles). I imagine getting an education here would reflect these principles and be of very high quality. Most German engineers I interact with our exceptional. Germany has an export to import ratio of ~1.2 meaning for every euro they spend, they earn 1.20 euros. They can afford this. The US is less than 1 (perhaps 0.8 or something) and Canada (my home) is about 1 mostly because we have so many natural resources. The benefits one gets in the US and Canada pale in comparison to Germany, it is embarrassing. The US and Canada need to push their export to import ratios higher through innovation and efficiency improvements (real economic growth, not like artificial economic growth based on low interests, real estate speculation, and the financial/banking worlds investment/money magic tricks) in order to be able to afford the benefits a German resident gets.
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khabaalabout 10 years ago
As a german who works for a german university, i would like to point out that studying is actually not totally free.<p>Here at the University of applied sciences in Münster, you would have to pay a total 235€ every six month, consisting of a social contribution of 85.44€ and a student body contribution of 145.75€, for which you will get a ticket for free travel by bus or by train inside North Rhine-Westphalia for the whole six month. Some people in here just register because of that ticket. :D<p>To study in germany, you normally just need to prove that you have a specific amount of money to survive, pay for a flat, food and health insurance. And thats it.<p>As the website stated, we need skilled immigrants, because with a birth rate of just 1.3 childs per woman, the germans are slowly dying out, not to mention that our society is getting older and older like the one in japan. Attracting foreign students with a nearly free college is a great and very cheap way of getting highly skilled workers, its makes perfect sense.
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grkvltabout 10 years ago
&gt; [The] German admissions process [...] is vastly different than it is in the United States [...] It&#x27;s much more transparent, and it is entirely academic based [...] There are no recommendations or extensive resumes.<p>This is exactly the way University admission <i>should</i> be handled. It&#x27;s much the same throughout Europe and the UK. I would hate to have had to go through the hoop jumping exercise of the US college admission process with all of the emphasis on extracurricular activities and proving that I&#x27;m the &#x27;right kind of person&#x27; for them.<p>To apply in the UK, I sent a form with my exam results, and that was it. I could have added a &#x27;personal essay&#x27; but didn&#x27;t even bother. Not sure if this has changed much, but I hope it hasn&#x27;t...
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Htsthbjigabout 10 years ago
Education in Europe is not free. You pay with your qualifications. If your university grades are not good enough, you go out fast.<p>I studied engineering in Europe. When I went to Boston or London to work it was like I was the boss or something because I was much better prepared than Americans or British.<p>But Americans have much better job opportunities that make them better than Europeans after working some time in any field.<p>The world is controlled by the petrodollar and Americans enjoy lots of benefits as a result.<p>Europe is old and taking risks is so hard here. In Asia it is even harder.
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DrinkWaterabout 10 years ago
I would have killed to get the chance to study in the US.<p>American students are far more complex and broad in their knowledge. And that&#x27;s a very good thing you shouldn&#x27;t underestimate. It helps a lot in your career.<p>Germany loves hierarchy and &quot;conservative&quot; thinking. And that is reflected in every aspect of society, even academic education. The main focus is to produce people that Germany needs. We have a shitload of &quot;Fachidioten&quot; here. That&#x27;s a good thing, and also a bad thing.<p>tl;dr If you want to reach for the stars in your career, study somewhere else.
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mcbetzabout 10 years ago
Yes, there is a massive flow of incoming students, especially here in Berlin and in other large cities (Hamburg, Munich, Cologne). But after graduation, exactly those cities do not offer great job opportunities. What makes our economic system strong are the many small to medium entreprises, often family businesses. And those are seldomly in the nice urban areas but mostly in the southern countryside.<p>So you will see many highly qualified graduates working as waiters or in startups who pay little to nothing - so they can stay in posh Berlin.<p>At the same time companies in the countryside have a very, very hard time to get employees.<p>Apart from that spatial problem, there is one huge drawback: the language. Most of the study programs are still solely taught in German. And the requirements are tough!<p>I had some classes in English and it was totally weird, as there were never more than 2 students who were not German natives. Quality dropped as well, when you&#x27;re discussing German philosophy in English, obviously.
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chrisBobabout 10 years ago
This is an interesting contrast to the US. Germany educates foreigners for free because they want them to stay. In the US it is very hard for someone to stay after going through a publicly funded PhD program. Other than exporting our culture I am not sure what the goal could be.
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darkhornabout 10 years ago
You can study at METU &#x2F; Turkey. It is one of the best 100 universities in the world. Very cheap compared to the USA. And it is a state university, founded with the help of the USA during the cold war. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.metu.edu.tr&#x2F;announcement&#x2F;odtu-among-top-100-universities-world" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.metu.edu.tr&#x2F;announcement&#x2F;odtu-among-top-100-unive...</a><p>Less than €550 per semester for foreign students (if you are Turkic it is cheaper (might be free), or if you are Turkic country citizen, or if you have graduated from a Turkish high-school in a foreign country etc). <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;oidb.metu.edu.tr&#x2F;en&#x2F;tuition-fee-amounts" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;oidb.metu.edu.tr&#x2F;en&#x2F;tuition-fee-amounts</a><p>Also there is another campus in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is private (acts like a private). <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;international.ncc.metu.edu.tr&#x2F;tuition-scholarships&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;international.ncc.metu.edu.tr&#x2F;tuition-scholarships&#x2F;</a>
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cabinparkabout 10 years ago
I am doing a PhD here in Germany and I absolutely love it. It&#x27;s completely free (except for the 300 euro fee per semester, but that includes the UBahn ticket which is like 200 of the 300 fee and is worth it) and I actually get paid really, really well. Plus PhDs are only 3 years and I don&#x27;t have to deal with TAing and can just research. And because I am a student, I don&#x27;t have pay taxes because my salary is considered a &quot;stipendium&quot; or whatever. It&#x27;s quite nice. And where I am living, Frankfurt, which is apparently very expensive, is still cheap to me.<p>But, as others have said in this thread, there are drawbacks, which have been addressed. But that&#x27;s true of anything anywhere.<p>So overall I highly recommend Germany for studies. Plus German is just a cool language to know as well.
stfuabout 10 years ago
As far as I know this has been mostly about boosting &quot;diversity&quot; quotas at German Universities in order to perform better in international rankings. Previously this had been done by rising the amount of students coming from low-income regions (e.g. ex-Russian territory, Asia), so it is certainly a welcome change to see US students making use of that system.
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chridoabout 10 years ago
Other European countries are similiar, e.g., Austria € 726,72 per semester for students outside the EU, for EU citizen its free, as long as they are in minimum time<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.studyinaustria.at&#x2F;study_in_austria&#x2F;tuition_fees&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.studyinaustria.at&#x2F;study_in_austria&#x2F;tuition_fees&#x2F;</a>
Paul_Sabout 10 years ago
...and Germany gets the better side of this deal. Unless you overinflate fees and run your education system like a business educating people is a net benefit.
k__about 10 years ago
Funny story:<p>The four years I took for my bachelor were the only four years with study-fees in Germany. So I paid more for my degree than the Americans who study here now.
yodsanklaiabout 10 years ago
I wonder if American students fleeing their country to save on education tax is more than anecdotical.<p>BTW, the article mentions Germany, but isn&#x27;t education cheap in most European countries?
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tempodoxabout 10 years ago
If the Germans have any sense, they will lift a fee from U.S. students. Taxpayers won&#x27;t appreciate having their money thrown away just so that aliens can have a free ride.
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tsothaabout 10 years ago
How could this possibly make sense to German taxpayers?
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personlurkingabout 10 years ago
Here&#x27;s a Reddit &#x2F;Bestof on the German university application process. It&#x27;s not exactly free.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;UpliftingNews&#x2F;comments&#x2F;2itsz2&#x2F;germany_offers_tuitionfree_college_to_all&#x2F;cl5hwra" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;UpliftingNews&#x2F;comments&#x2F;2itsz2&#x2F;germany_of...</a>
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AndrewKemendoabout 10 years ago
Quite frankly, Germany is eating the US&#x27; lunch when it comes to advanced Computer Vision research and applications. My guess is that it&#x27;s because of things like this.<p>So, that is a tough thing for us when recruiting because they have so many easier options over there instead of working, even remote, for people in the US.
fred_is_fredabout 10 years ago
You can go to college for free and have a great chance to improve your life, then you major in North American studies. WTF is that.
kleibaabout 10 years ago
The CS department at the German university I work for started offering their lectures in English a number of years back. While a very good command of English is not uncommon in other parts of Europe, such as e.g. Scandinavia, this move is remarkable in my opinion because English is (more or less) ubiquitous only in the younger generation in Germany. A lot of middle-aged people do not speak English, or only at a very rudimentary level. Of course you won&#x27;t have any problems getting around just on English in places like Berlin or Heidelberg, but this effect does not generalize across the board.<p>So the biggest problem I see with moving to English within the German higher education system is that it creates the illusion that you don&#x27;t really need to speak German to live in that country. But at the university, you live inside a bubble: some of my coworkers have come here from other countries five or more years ago, and still speak hardly any German. And that&#x27;s fine because the working language in our department is de facto English. There are even German classes that the university offers and that some of my coworkers took, but since they never really needed it inside the bubble, their success at learning German has remained rather humble.<p>Now, one of my coworker wants to move on from academia and has been looking for jobs -- IT-related, that is. He&#x27;s (over?)-specialized (with his PhD almost finished) in a specific area (speech signal analysis), but basically speaks no German. He&#x27;s having a <i>really</i> hard time getting any reactions at all to his job applications. Most of the time, the companies do not even send rejection notes. I&#x27;ve been helping him a little bit with this, and given his credentials, I really find it difficult to understand why he cannot even get to the interview stage -- except for his lack of German.<p>The big problem is: if he cannot find something very soon, his visa will expire and he will be forced to leave the country. He&#x27;s got a wife and two young daughters, the younger one of which was 2 years old when the family came to Germany. She&#x27;s now 7 -- Germany is the country she grew up in, and she might be forced to leave it soon and move to the country of her father. Ironically, <i>she</i> doesn&#x27;t even speak her parents&#x27; language perfectly.<p>So, there is a caveat when studying in Germany if your goal is to start a life here afterwards. Language matters.<p>What I cannot understand at all in this matter, though, is that by offering university courses in English and not requiring students to acquire very good German skills as well, Germany is basically investing a lot of (tax) money in the education of people who are more or less guaranteed to leave again when they&#x27;re done with their studies.<p>The return of investment is thus pretty low... you could say, almost non-existent.
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