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Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

351 pointsby dsiegel2275about 10 years ago

55 comments

jv22222about 10 years ago
Somehow I can&#x27;t equate myself to my age number, 46.<p>In 25 years there has never been a moment when I wasn&#x27;t in love with learning the latest cutting edge tech.<p>Over the years it&#x27;s been so much fun...<p>...to progress from the BBC B to pascal on the mac to pc&#x27;s to unix boxes to c cgi scripts to perl to php to mySQL to flash actionscript to ruby to javascript to noSQL to node to socket.io to html5 css3 to iOS to android to rabbitmq to laravel.<p>...to move from crappy first gen-linux boxes serving web pages from my front room to using web hosting companies to the elastic cloud to puppet to salt-stack to containers.<p>And I&#x27;m only just getting started.<p>I can&#x27;t wait to get in to VR, 3D printing, hard core signal processing and so much more.<p>When I&#x27;m screen sharing and problem solving with a 25 year old dev on a hardcore problem I feel no different in any way to the person on the other end of the line.
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bikamonkiabout 10 years ago
More options: - Go solo. At 40 you should be experienced enough to handle up to mid-sized projects, alone and on a reasonable time-frame. Try to pick projects that your clients will actually use, with new features and support contracts you will have steady income for the long-term. - Go startup. Stop thinking you need to come up with the next über-for-x. There are plenty of opportunities for small sass shops that cater locally and provide sufficient income for a micro successful business. At worst you&#x27;ll be acquired. - Go sidetrack. I read someone said every business is a software business. Start a different career&#x2F;business and you&#x27;ll be doing the IT needs yourself. That alone is a huge competitive advantage.<p>These options allow you to continue programming after 40 and you should! It is an urban myth that past 35 programmers are not as good b&#x2F;c they get tired faster or make more mistakes? The truth is that 20-somethings can put up with very long hours b&#x2F;c they have the time (mainly due to not having a wife and kids) while 40-somethings have the experience to go right to the answer. That&#x27;s productive vs efficient. I like to use a soccer analogy: a young defender is good when he&#x27;s fast because he can outrun the attacker, while an old and slow defender is better because he knows where to stand and wait for the attacker. Experience is gold.
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jarsinabout 10 years ago
Lets see every 20-30 year old we have brought in the past 3 years:<p>A) Is so arrogant they think they know it all. Then when they turn in the code it&#x27;s barely passable and it become clear they are going to be difficult to work with.<p>B) Are overly emotional and they all take things way too seriously.<p>Now every 35+ person we have brought in for a project is:<p>A) Professional. Gets the job done and very well.<p>B) Sees the bigger picture and goes with the flow.<p>That&#x27;s my personal experience but hey if I was management I would go with the 20 year old&#x27;s all day long. As long as I did not know what they did or had to deal with them...Oh wait....
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derreklabout 10 years ago
I don&#x27;t know a single software dev over 40 who isn&#x27;t employed, and I know many that age. None of them had to change fields. Some are managers, but most are &quot;senior&quot; devs. Many of these guys have been programming internet technologies since the later 90&#x27;s.<p>It seems in the places I&#x27;ve lived (LA, DC) the salaries are pretty squashed together after 5 years experience. Basically anyone with that experience is getting a similar pay check +&#x2F;- 15%. For many after 28 you are close to being maxed on your pay which would put you in the same spot this article plops the 40 year olds.
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tptacekabout 10 years ago
Don&#x27;t specialize in things that depreciate as rapidly as programming languages! C++ experience is quickly getting less relevant over time, but stochastic calculus, digital signal processing, machine learning, and distributed systems aren&#x27;t. Some of those specialties get <i>more</i> valuable; in fact, sometimes, the forces that make things like C++ less valuable actually clear the way for things like distributed systems to become more valuable.<p>I was allowed to offer only a single bit of career advice, that&#x27;d be what I&#x27;d say: <i>don&#x27;t specialize in programming languages</i>. They&#x27;re a trap!<p>(But then, I&#x27;m not quite 40 yet, so I could be wrong).
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therealwillabout 10 years ago
Or plan C. For younger engineers start thinking about financial independence. Software Engineers enjoy a high starting salary and an even higher mid career salary so it is entirely possible to achieve financial independence in your 30s-40s with a frugal lifestyle and smart investing.
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sklivvz1971about 10 years ago
Age has got nothing to do with programming. Ageism is just a bias (or fear) that some people have of losing their talent or skills.<p>Trust me, it doesn&#x27;t happen.<p>What happens, instead, is that people get bored, or stop coding and lose the skills they don&#x27;t practice, or get offered better paid jobs in management, etc.<p>Years back, maybe programming didn&#x27;t have much to offer in terms of personal growth, I don&#x27;t know. It&#x27;s certainly not the case today -- I see people growing into better and better programmers, more rewarded, but also more interested, as time goes by.<p>Most companies you actually want to work for don&#x27;t care about your age. If they do, is because they are just going to use you (like, code for 80 hours because you don&#x27;t have a family and don&#x27;t know any better...)<p>Now -- the <i>real</i> problem is that most people in programming really have no aptitude, skill or passion for it, and <i>should</i> at some point get out... but that&#x27;s just me being an old fart ;-)
eranationabout 10 years ago
I think it depends a lot on the industry, a young SF based Rails &#x2F; Django &#x2F; based startup? I hardly see them hiring a 40 years old with kids that will ask for a salary higher than the CEO. A front end UI developer with knowledge of the latest Ember &#x2F; Anguler &#x2F; React &#x2F; whatever they come up with next front-end tech? Perhaps they are more likely to find a fresh graduate (or just a self taught hacker who just rocks at HTML CSS and JavaScript) that is in their early 20&#x27;s<p>But in big companies (Amazon, Google, Twitter) in enterprise software companies, banks, medical tech, finance, I think it&#x27;s not that uncommon to find 40 year old developers. Most of the developers in my company average at way above 30. And we have a couple of engineers above 50. All of them are pretty kick ass Java developers and they all get tons of unsolicited recruiter spam. (Maybe I&#x27;m delusional or in denial, or perhaps this is just the difference between industries, but I think that if you WANT to still do it while you are 40, and you keep yourself sharp, just like doctors have to keep up every year with the latest developments in medical research to stay relevant, then I think you can do it till you retire)<p>I think the reason many drop out of coding is that it is very time consuming to keep up, and some may want sometimes a less mentally demanding daily routine. Managing a team of engineers can be tough, but it&#x27;s somewhat less mentally and intellectually strenuous and energy hungry as coding. Coding takes a lot of focus and sharpness, and sometimes it&#x27;s simply hard grunt work, people sometimes get tired of it and want to move on to management (or being a &quot;solution architect&quot;) or even product management.<p>I think the problem is that the 40 year olds chose on their own to do less coding at some point, and more management &#x2F; IT &#x2F; architecture. (e.g. the less good developers, those who don&#x27;t pass the sort from 100 to 1 but still manage to land a job, eventually understand it&#x27;s not for them and move on to other, not less important roles)
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bcg1about 10 years ago
Are there really people out there who actually believe that programmers are washed up by the time they hit 30?<p>I&#x27;m not kidding... do people really believe this? I always thought that was a fairy tale that employers tell to still-wet-behind-the-ears kids in order to pump up their egos so that they work untenable hours for meager pay
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czepabout 10 years ago
42, happily but anxiously still coding. What most disturbs me about the ageism debate is that so many young programmers believe it is right, natural, and inevitable to assume that older programmers should be cast aside. It is an odd form of false consciousness that so many of us believe in our 20s that we will be retired before 30. Someone mentioned Barrett&#x27;s quote astonished that &quot;clueless management&quot; would treat programmers&#x27; careers like those of professional atheletes. But how clueless is it really, when so many of us think the exact same way?<p>We all think we&#x27;re going to be the lucky ones to strike it rich, all it takes is hard work and our natural talent and voila, $100M exit. Then, you reach mid-life, and still want to write code, how do you feel now about your youthful cavalier attitude?<p>If I could travel back in time 20 years and tell myself &quot;dude, someday you&#x27;ll be my age too!&quot; I probably wouldn&#x27;t have done anything differently, but it would be a serious boost to the humility of our young brethren for them to realize that they too will be in our shoes one day--a day that comes far too soon.<p>The thing is, I am actually one of the lucky ones. I could retire now and never work another day. Sure I don&#x27;t have a private jet or a house in Atherton, but I have the freedom to walk away from anything and not worry about money. It&#x27;s liberating, but I certainly don&#x27;t want to stop. I love programming! I want to keep working. And based on the sentiments of those around me, and the nice paycheck I command, it&#x27;s clear I still have a lot to contribute to this economy before I&#x27;m put out to pasture. But I would like a less toxic enviroment. Fortunately I don&#x27;t encounter many clueless managers these days. I simply don&#x27;t work for organizations where decisions would be made to hire youth just to save a few bucks. But I still encounter the young bucks who think I&#x27;m too expensive and simply there to steal their thunder and take credit for everything. Just remember kids, someday you will be just like me, if you&#x27;re lucky.<p>We have so little time, don&#x27;t waste any of it comparing yourself to others--young or old. Treat every day as a competition with yourself... to end the day a little bit smarter, a little wiser, a little bit more humble than you were when the day started.
tluyben2about 10 years ago
I&#x27;m always surprised how timid programmers are; I have a very big mouth and I am very confident about my abilities. That alone seems to get me into anything I want even if I was bullshitting (which i&#x27;m not). So people who are far better than me at what they do as software engineer should have no problems at all. However most of who I meet and interview are timid and not very confident. Programmers in general really undersell themselves; even if they did great stuff, they will wind it down to things like &#x27;I built some software which gets input from workout machines&#x27; vs &#x27;I wrote an embedded OS and optimized (32kb it has to process the data!) analytics software which runs on most of the machines in YOUR favorite gym&#x27;. Or &#x27;I did a C++ fast cgi e-commerce backend for an auction site&#x27; vs &#x27;I wrote the backend for an auction site doing 400 million euros of transactions a year with millions of pageviews per month&#x27;. When you get above the &#x27;junior programmer&#x27; people want to hear what you can &#x27;get done&#x27; not some tech details of something which sounds like you just came from uni. I think a lot of people underestimate how much people will rely on them once they are seniors and if they don&#x27;t have that air, why would anyone hire?<p>All programmers above 40 (and 50) who are not afraid to sell themselves are employed (and&#x2F;or wealthy); the timid ones sometimes are but mostly are not; they complain that no-one wants to hire them. I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s different in any other profession to be honest at that age.
Afforessabout 10 years ago
I see no one else has mentioned another, even more obvious solution. <i>Retire</i>.<p>With the sky-high salaries it is possible to earn as a software engineer, it should be straightforward (not easy, but still straightforward nonetheless), to save enough to retire at the age of 40. After which, you can spend your remaining time as you see fit, working on personal projects or any other hobby that suits your fancy.<p>This is the route I am taking.
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WhitneyLandabout 10 years ago
This article is wrong on the facts, but more dangerously offers wrong advice on life choices.<p>23 years ago, when I was 23 years old, I actually posted a Usenet question on this topic (archived somewhere?) asking where were all of the &quot;old&quot; programmers?<p>First off, people don&#x27;t decpreciate, skill sets do. Of course someone making a high salary will be undesirable if their skills stay the same and become commoditized or less relevant. But the same would be true of a young person with the same salary&#x2F;skills. Every time this happens the challenge becomes finding the next niche that is valuable, and that you like enough to devote lots of time to.<p>Secondly, a lot of older folks get siphoned off to management voluntarily. This can happen when a company doesn&#x27;t have equal career ladders for tech and management. At good software companies you can advance as individual contributor up to a VP level, while other companies force a switch to management to continue progressing. And of course a few are natural leaders of people who want run a group, or try a cross functional gig. Some feel it&#x27;s more prestigious to be director of whatever dept.<p>On age discrimination in tech, I hear about it anecdotaly, but haven&#x27;t yet perceived it happening to me. Maybe it&#x27;s just too early to notice, or maybe there will always be some people in tech who want to work with the best team possible regardless of age? Would I hire an 80 year old developer? They&#x27;d get the same questions as any 25 year old. Show me the code you&#x27;ve written over the last year. Shoe me how you communicate complex concepts in simple ways. Are you a dick to work with?<p>On being too expensive, the reality is there is an effective salary cap for everyone which is a function of company, role, skills, location, etc. You need to know what the cap is and realize if a company balks at going over it then it may have nothing to do with age. The calculus is what it is, older people are just more likely to hit the caps first.<p>Finally I must disagree with the comments I see about young people being less capable. Yes, experience is irreplaceable in certain contexts. However more often I notice the people doing really great work are a special minority of individuals that just have the right combination of smarts, drive, maturity, flexibility, luck, etc.<p>I&#x27;ll try to remember to follow up on this post in another 23 years to discuss what has changed.
maerF0x0about 10 years ago
i&#x27;d suggest that intelligent employers realize that the language and stack are only a very small part of building a product. The more interesting problems are hard not due to language, but due to algorithms, data structuring, design patters and general architecting et al.<p>The 10yr C++ programmer ought to have those things nailed, the junior may not know they even exist.
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asuffieldabout 10 years ago
I don&#x27;t buy it. There are people of all ages on my team, and the same has been true at several other jobs I&#x27;ve had in the past few years. There is not even a particularly strong correlation between age and seniority.<p>My second observation is that in all the jobs I&#x27;ve had where this was not true, the company has not been particularly successful in the long run. It&#x27;s unclear whether this is related, but it&#x27;s interesting.<p>However, I can come up with an alternative statement that may be a better explanation of what some people seem to observe: if you are not a really good engineer by the time you turn 40, and you expect to be paid based on your &quot;years of experience&quot;, get a plan B.
pistleabout 10 years ago
Ehhhh. I&#x27;m 40+ and I&#x27;ve never had so many opportunities. Then again, I love this stuff, so it&#x27;s not really work to keep up. I still love the shiny new thing, and my ramp-up is faster since I&#x27;ve seen most of it before. It&#x27;s just another language, platform, what-have-you. I worry more about the income plateau. I wouldn&#x27;t leave because I&#x27;m tired, slow, or specialized. I&#x27;d leave because the market wouldn&#x27;t bear my rate growth.
bufabout 10 years ago
Some of the best software engineers that I know are 40. Thanks for the advice, but it seems to generalize.
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tragicabout 10 years ago
I always find these discussions kind of odd, because there seems to be an unspoken assumption that the world is divided into 20yo CS grads and 40+ greybeards. The truth is that a lot of people get into software outside that track nowadays. Their initial ambition either becomes obviously unrealistic or increasingly unattractive[0]. Hence the phenomenon of boot camps, etc.<p>I&#x27;m sure there are people who do twelve weeks of ultra intensive rails and think they&#x27;re Dijkstra incarnate, of course, but most of us who came to development, as it were, sideways do not exhibit that kind of attitude. We respect our elders.<p>I have no idea what it&#x27;s like in the valley start up scene, but certainly in London I see very little buggering about of senior engineers: nevermind people considering me basically past it at the row old age of, er, 28.<p>[0] this was me in 2010: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=obTNwPJvOI8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=obTNwPJvOI8</a>
fierycatnetabout 10 years ago
After reading stuff like this I never know what to think. I am 28 and just getting started. I hope to land my first developer position by the end of the year. So what am I to make of it? By the time I am competent enough I will be expendable? I am not discouraged but articles like these don&#x27;t make sense to me. Almost everywhere I look and in every aspect of my life I am always &quot;behind&quot; and I don&#x27;t feel like it but everybody is telling me I am...
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danieltillettabout 10 years ago
I only became a semi-fulltime developer after 40, but I have the advantage of working for myself and 20 years of non- software domain experience. I think the key to developer longevity is having other skills so that once your percieved value as a developer declines you have other skills to fall back on.
dmcgabout 10 years ago
I really didn&#x27;t see any issues other than day-rate-compression through my 40s. Now I&#x27;m nearing 50 my memory definitely isn&#x27;t what it used to be, but my expression in code is improving to compensate.<p>I feel that my influence and ability to drive good outcomes gets better as I learn more about myself, but the nurses here are telling me to go back to bed, so I&#x27;ll have to turn off this computer thing now.
sbtabout 10 years ago
I personally hate working in a monoculture, whether it&#x27;s all males or all 20-somethings. There&#x27;s just inherent value in having diversity in all dimensions, otherwise the workplace turns into a military barrack.
bdcravensabout 10 years ago
Turn 38 on Monday. I turn down work regularly (and I&#x27;ve been guilty at times of not turning down <i>enough</i> work). At the same time, I look much younger than I am (I get carded regularly), wear mostly conference t-shirts and hoodies, wear &quot;hipsterish&quot; glasses, and have a stickered-up MBP, so maybe I fit a stereotype not becoming of my age.
_pmf_about 10 years ago
Here&#x27;s a plan: move outside the Silicon Valley circle jerk. You won&#x27;t get a ridiculous superstar salary, but you get the chance of working on actual products instead of throwaway MVPs.
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arh68about 10 years ago
I call shenanigans on the original NYT article.<p><i>According to a survey conducted by the National Science Foundation and the Census Bureau, six years after finishing college, 57 percent of computer science graduates are working as programmers; at 15 years the figure drops to 34 percent, and at 20 years -- when most are still only in their early 40&#x27;s -- it is down to 19 percent.</i><p>What they fail to talk about is the 7 different occupations similar to &#x27;computer programmer&#x27;. Are you a <i>Computer scientists and systems analyst</i>? Or a Network and computer systems administrator? Is your job title <i>Computer software engineer</i>? Maybe you&#x27;re a Electrical&#x2F;electronic engineer or a Computer hardware engineer? Then you are not a Computer Programmer.<p>NYT cherry picked one occupation of many. If you&#x27;re 40 and you&#x27;ve migrated job titles past <i>Programmer</i>, you contribute to this &#x27;rampant ageism&#x27;.
kephraabout 10 years ago
I sometimes think, that the reason for this age discrimination was the switch from female to male coders in the early 80s. It was that sudden break, that introduced the computer kid as a replacement of the former cheap female workforce, and made the highly payed former system architect obsolete, as nobody had a use for a programmer anymore, who needs a secretary for typing, in the modern time of personal computers. Some of them moved to management, just renaming their job position.<p>So the gender discrimination of cheap female coder vs expensive male system architect switched into an age discrimination between cheap young coders, and expensive managers.<p>We lost both the skilled and the female coders in this way.
devonkimabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m giving an offer to someone about as old as my father (over 52 easily) because he shows interest in the subject I need code written in, has proven shipped projects with success over decades, and is reasonably competent at the details. My employer is not a Bay Area company though and we are not trying to crank out code on a relentless mission like most are - we&#x27;re looking for something a bit slower paced, thoughtful, and more &quot;right amount of effort&quot; for fairly simple tasks that I&#x27;ve found require some real world experience to get right. As a result, we&#x27;re actually biased against younger employees if anything, not the other way around.
mournitabout 10 years ago
This uncertainty is one of the things that drives me towards getting a CS PhD and ultimately a research position rather than becoming a software engineer. Older researchers are very common in CS-related fields, both in industry and academia.
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scottwhudsonabout 10 years ago
Working in the Austin startup scene, I definitely get a sense that this is an issue amongst younger companies. However, I look at my father who&#x27;s now with a massive merchant software company and there&#x27;s not a single person in his division under the age of 40 (a lot of these guys are maintaining legacy mainframes, etc.)<p>About a year ago, the company realized that they&#x27;re SOL with a n aging employee base and no one coming in to replace them once they retire. He&#x27;s always argued that larger companies will come calling once the boomers are out, but I shutter at the thought of having to learn COBOL.
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nfriedlyabout 10 years ago
My plan B is to semi-retire. I expect that I&#x27;ll still work some, but starting somewhere around 40-50 I plan to cut back to part-time (or perhaps stints of full-time intermingled with multi-month vacations) and become more picky about what I choose to work on.<p>Assuming I never get another raise in my life, I&#x27;m on track to have my house paid off before I hit 35, and $500k+ in the bank by age 40. (The better portion of that will be locked in a 401k until I&#x27;m 60, but my wife and I have also been maxing out Roth IRAs and that money will be available to retire on whenever we want it.)
josephagossabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m not a fan of this plan B stuff when you&#x27;re 40.<p>Where is the plan B for doctors? Where is the plan B for Lawyers? Why do these other professionals have respect in the their old age and not us software engineers&#x2F;programmers?<p>How depressing.<p>&gt; The half-life of an engineer, software or hardware, is only a few years.<p>And I still don&#x27;t get this. Move out of software and you&#x27;ll find loads of over 40&#x27;s and over 50&#x27;s engineers. Here in Perth I know loads of older engineers, that are given dignity and respect along with their peers in Medicine and Law.<p>This plan B stuff is because of the culture that surrounds programmers. If there is any plan B, it is to maybe start admitting that older programmers might actually be useful and worthwhile for employment, much like every other white collar profession.<p>It&#x27;s true that a 40 year old might not be able to work as many hours as a 20 year old, but that doesn&#x27;t mean each hour is worth the same. At 40, you&#x27;d hope that the older programmers hours put in are more considered with all their experience and are most certainly worth it.<p>The same goes for older Lawyers and older doctors, they might not be as energetic as 20 year olds, but with all that experience to make that much more of an informed decision, it certainly means the older generation can compete.<p>This is a culture issue.<p>&gt; Software engineering reliably undergoes a major technology shift at least every 10 years.<p>I doubt any shift invalidates real fundamental knowledge. Sure if your entire career has only been a couple of languages with very little algorithm theory, then true, but that&#x27;s because you never studied the subject, on your own or formally, that isn&#x27;t because you&#x27;re 40.<p>For example, Doctors and Lawyers have to have the fundamentals down, it&#x27;s very important. I guess it&#x27;s true that not enough programmers have the fundamentals down and that is an issue.<p>But if you&#x27;re 40 and have training in the fundamentals such as algorithms and design before even hitting the code, you should easily be able to adapt.<p>&gt; The more irrelevant experience a candidate has, the more lopsided the utility&#x2F;value equation becomes<p>Again this is a HR issue. A software engineer&#x2F;programmer that starts their work from the design and algorithm level should be able to pick up a new language in a couple of weeks. This issue is mainly with the way we hire programmers not with the programmers themselves.<p>It&#x27;s like the job ad for 10 years experience in Node.js when Node.js was 3 years old. Just because HR are clueless doesn&#x27;t mean we need to all start changing our careers.<p>If you want my advice, it&#x27;s learn that knowing people is as important (or more!) than what you know.<p>If you build up your career around being an expert and networking, you will be in a better position than the expert who knows no one.
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RomanPushkinabout 10 years ago
Best advice: build your shit.<p>No matter how much time it takes, 1 year, 2, 3.<p>If it doesn&#x27;t work and you don&#x27;t earn enough, build your shit.<p>During your career you&#x27;ll be able to build 3-5 relatively big projects. And about 10-30 small projects and ideas.<p>And if you&#x27;re lucky enough, you won&#x27;t worry about that anymore.<p>I earned x3 salary 5 years ago. I had freedom, and I could work 5-10 hours a week. But finally my project has failed. Lesson learned. Now I&#x27;m far behind these figures.<p>But I keep on trying building shit. Hopefully, I&#x27;ll be able to turn it to successful business one day.
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japhyrabout 10 years ago
I just had dinner with two other devs tonight I randomly met at PyCon. Both of them do contract work, and have to turn away work. Neither of them ever specialized in any particular language; they both just focused on using code to solve problems.<p>There&#x27;s always going to be a need for people who can walk in to a new situation, diagnose what&#x27;s going well and what needs to be fixed, and carry that out.
acdabout 10 years ago
One needs to implement life long learning! We are working in a field where there is exponential growth in computing, networking and storage and what computers can do. The robot automation artificial intelligence age are coming! Ordering food will be automated, cooking food will be automated, the post office will be automated. Shopping will to a large extent be automated, there will be 3D models of your body captured by your cell phone or 3D scanner booth. When you enter the shopping mart of the future, the food will come to you, you will not pick it up unless you want to. Why use a shopping cart when you can have a robotic picker do the work for you?<p>That said I see different things in different people getting older. Some people like life long learning, they will not have an issue finding jobs. Some people stagnate in their internal development after college, they use the same programming languages and tools as they did several years back. They are probably more in danger of getting obsolete by new tech. I think there is danger in your career path if you stagnate as a growth as a person. This will get worse the older you get unless you change.<p>With years of experience you will also realize that there is fashion in programmer tool chains, it&#x27;s not necessarily that Javascript is better than say Ruby or Python but it sure is in fashion. Same can be said about NoSQL tech such as MongoDB it is not per say better than sharded MySQL and Postgres but you should still learn it because your younger peers will like it. I like to learn new stuff so I follow along. This also covers fashion in Javascript libraries such as AngularJS and React, there will something greener in the library field down the line I&#x27;m sure of it.<p>Love to learn! If programming is anything like martial arts you will just get better and more skilled with age, take and go the new tech coming in.
Bouncingsoul1about 10 years ago
I don&#x27;t want to go into managment or consulting, I love being a developer. There is just this misconception that companies think it is a reward for you to put you there. &quot;Hey this guy is really good at developing software, you know what we should do, stop him from writing code and sit him in meetings with stupid people until he becomes one himself&quot;
erikpukinskisabout 10 years ago
Yes, how tragic that someone might have to suffer the indignity of earning a measly $80,000 a year.
henrik_wabout 10 years ago
&quot;While a technology shift doesn’t completely negate the skills of veterans, it certainly levels the playing field for recent grads.&quot;<p>In my opinion, a technology shift (new language, platforms, methodology, paradigm or whatever), doesn&#x27;t come close to negate the skills you have aquired. In general, I think people underestimate how much of programming that is still the same. I wrote more about it in &quot;Programmer Knowledge&quot; <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;henrikwarne.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;15&#x2F;programmer-knowledge&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;henrikwarne.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;12&#x2F;15&#x2F;programmer-knowledge&#x2F;</a>
codecamperabout 10 years ago
60 something... they made the first PCs! 50 something... First PC OSs and compilers. 40 something... created the first web browsers, and founded the biggest, longest lasting Internet companies. Had to deal with C, slow computers, crazy memory mapping, OSes that crash. 30 something... started Facebook, wrote mobile apps, created hundreds of more narrowly focused internet companies using pre-existing tools. 20 something... hack PHP, ruby, js to create sites that deliver stuff to you. Utilize heaps of VC cash. The book is still open what they&#x27;ll accomplish.
jroseattleabout 10 years ago
Before we talk Plan B, let&#x27;s talk Plan A. The article equates age (and obsolescence) to Plan A. This is incorrect. Age is not a plan.<p>Plan A is continually improving your skills. Breadth and depth. Know one thing fairly well? Become excellent at it. Is there something way outside your wheelhouse? Get closer to it.<p>You can&#x27;t do everything, but chances are there is <i>something</i> you can do to improve your overall skill set. The great thing about Plan A is that age has nothing to do with it. It&#x27;s a personal choice that you control.
xedariusabout 10 years ago
Not sure I add much worth to the view portrayed by this article.<p>However, as you progress in your career become a specialist in a particular field. Avoid becoming a general programmer. So far I&#x27;ve had two programming careers, the first was a games programmer, a very specialised area. The current is building high performance trading system in the financial sector. These are both very liquid and specialised area.<p>This will increase the likelihood of you being in demand, and afford you the luxury of options.
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yawzabout 10 years ago
We work in a, relatively speaking, very young industry. It&#x27;s very hard to draw conclusions by looking back at 20 years ago. Being in a young and highly-demanded industry pushes a lot of us into managerial positions earlier than normal. But essentially, I believe that a developer&#x27;s age doesn&#x27;t matter if he&#x2F;she doesn&#x27;t stop learning.
PhasmaFelisabout 10 years ago
I get the impression that this varies considerably with the local tech culture. Apologies for making this about me, but has anyone encountered this problem in the Seattle tech market? I&#x27;m 36 now, and I&#x27;m thinking of moving there sometime soon. As a coder&#x2F;sysadmin&#x2F;general tech guy, is this something I should actually be worried about?
drawkboxabout 10 years ago
Learn, or continue to learn, to make great products through quality work, consistent delivery and worry about nothing.<p>By 40, there should be some success or direction into side projects that might become the main thing.<p>Quality product designers, architects and engineers that can deliver great products will be in demand until the end of time.
loocsinusabout 10 years ago
Sadly my plan B was a change of career completely after 30. Not proud, but at least I code for fun now.
kinixabout 10 years ago
Is contracting not a viable alternative? At 40 I&#x27;d assume enough experience to be able to lend yourself to any struggling project that needs a talent injection?
SQL2219about 10 years ago
If only there was a physical challenge during the hiring process, then this geezer would be a shoe-in! Arm wrestling, 3 mile run, pull-up challenge anyone?
cheriotabout 10 years ago
&gt; Software engineering reliably undergoes a major technology shift at least every 10 years.<p>From web to mobile? What was the tough bridge to cross in the last 10 years?
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notinreallifeabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m fucked
mattschmulenabout 10 years ago
FML I turn 40 in May ... And your right it&#x27;s time to man up and honor alone
wedesoftabout 10 years ago
It helps to focus on the fundamentals. These change very slowly.
michaelochurchabout 10 years ago
<i>For some reason that I don’t completely get, a little gray hair and a smattering of experience in different technologies can create a beneficial bias for companies when they are renting brains instead of buying them outright. It may have something to do with the tendency for consultants to be vetted from higher up in the management chain where the silver foxes live.</i><p>I can explain this. It&#x27;s a very old idea. The truth about the young hires is that they&#x27;re cheap and the work they do isn&#x27;t very important, but they&#x27;re hired based on the potential to rise a level or few.<p>From an executive perspective, you don&#x27;t hire juniors for the work they&#x27;ll do, because it&#x27;s usually not of high impact of value. You hire based on the probability that they&#x27;ll be high-impact employees later. It&#x27;s impossible to predict this at the individual level, so you&#x27;re building a portfolio.<p>Of course, in 2015, the one-company-for-life model is pretty much dead and most people who get executive positions get them by job hopping at the first sign of an obstacle. Likewise, companies invest very little in their junior employees and tend to hire top-level talent from outside. So the biases from the old days don&#x27;t really make sense.<p>If someone&#x27;s 40 and still a junior or mid-level engineer, the assumption is that he&#x27;s &quot;too old&quot; to become a high-impact employee in 5 years. It&#x27;s completely ridiculous, these days. He could have been doing something else, like trying to make it as a novelist or working in a dive shop. It&#x27;s a hold-over from the employment-for-life, gold-watch era.<p>For the consultant, he&#x27;s not selling himself on some hazy &quot;future potential&quot; factor, so no one cares how old he is or (more relevantly) how old he&#x27;ll be in 10 years.<p>Very few people actually think that young, junior programmers are more skilled or better at their jobs than the 50+ badasses. The issue is that the young juniors come with a 5% chance of being a high-impact, executive-level employee in 10 years. Since the people making big decisions are executives who tend to discount the importance of everyone but executives, this still matters... even though the one-company-for-life model is pretty much dead.
diminotenabout 10 years ago
Software development as a profession hasn&#x27;t been around for long enough to draw any generational conclusions from.
marincountyabout 10 years ago
&gt;This article is using information collated in 1998. &gt;I have met a lot of unemployed former Programmers though? &gt;When I was younger I has no idea just how fast 40 would come. One downturn cycle in the economy, and poof--you&#x27;re there? (I do believe our bubble is about to burst again?) &gt;It does seem like certain young individuals come up with the most original ideas.(Certain, not all, and if you need to tell people about your brilliant ideas; your ideas might be very unoriginal?) &gt;When I was in my twenties, you couldn&#x27;t pay me enough to sit in front of a screen all day. I would crack one those 500 page phone books, and want to puke. As I got older, my priorities changed, along with my ability to study boring things. Yes, I said it. I find a lot of computing boring, and very tedious. Ironic?
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jackmaneyabout 10 years ago
At 38, I&#x27;ll admit that the general atmosphere of ageism in tech--whether real or not--scares me a bit. I guess I can take solace in the fact that, as a Data Scientist, I&#x27;m in a field that&#x27;s too new to have rampant and widespread ageism.
hellbannerabout 10 years ago
&quot;You know what they do with engineers when they turn 40? They take them out back and shoot them&quot;
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