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‘Free-range’ parents plan to file lawsuit after police pick up children

99 pointsby Thimothyabout 10 years ago

25 comments

mindfulgeekabout 10 years ago
We&#x27;re so obsessed as a society on making life &quot;easy&quot; for our kids that we completely remove our children&#x27;s ability to fend for themselves in the real world.<p>These parents were doing their children a service and trying to break free from the overprotective craziness that has everyone keeping their kids inside. And the response they received is crazy. As if its not hard enough to go against the grain and give your kids more independence, now there is precedence that if you do, you may be at risk.<p>Our jobs as parents is not to protect kids from life, but to give them the tools to navigate it.<p>Part of giving them tools is giving them the opportunity to fail and learn from it.<p>The rates of depression, suicide, bullying and drug use have been climbing higher and higher -- we&#x27;re not helping our kids stay safe, we&#x27;re keeping them from gaining wisdom.<p>Eventually it will change, though I suspect things will get worse before they get better... change comes when the pain of staying the same is too great -- we&#x27;re all too comfortable keeping our kids inside.
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jolissabout 10 years ago
Related visualization of how kid&#x27;s range has shrunk over four generations: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com&#x2F;736x&#x2F;2b&#x2F;4e&#x2F;b3&#x2F;2b4eb36f91e4c82bf017188613ac9a63.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com&#x2F;736x&#x2F;2b&#x2F;4e&#x2F;b3&#x2F;2b4eb36f9...</a>
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rayinerabout 10 years ago
It really boggles my mind how crazy people have gotten when it comes to kids. I grew up in the 1990&#x27;s with overprotective Asian immigrant parents.[1] They wouldn&#x27;t let us do anything other kids did. But hell if we weren&#x27;t walking home from school when we were about the same age as these kids.<p>As an aside, I hear people complain about lawsuits against police departments, because ultimately any judgments are paid out of tax dollars. I find that argument unavailing. In almost every municipality, police departments are the product of democratic processes. The police department is shitty because the people who vote for the leadership are shitty. This happened in Silver Spring, MD, a suburb of DC and home to a large number of uptight paranoid people. I grew up just on the other side of the MD-VA line: the only tragedy here would be if these taxpayers weren&#x27;t on the hook for a big judgment to these parents.<p>[1] I honestly thought that it wouldn&#x27;t get worse than when I was growing up--assembly rooms full of teachers and parents shrieking &quot;just say no!&quot;
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j_m_babout 10 years ago
Until the age of 10, I roamed in about a square mile of lakes, woods, creeks and fields. At the age of 10, we moved to a different state and city and my range increased considerably and it was common for me to roam miles away from my home. Granted, my parents just thought we were &quot;in the woods&quot; or &quot;on the bikepath&quot; and probably didn&#x27;t know the full extent of our travels but they didn&#x27;t make hard rules as to where we could be, either. The freedom I was given encouraged me to push my boundaries and it expanded my mind. I wouldn&#x27;t trade those years of exploring woods, swimming in creeks and quarries and observing wildlife for anything. There weren&#x27;t many other kids who traveled as extensively as my brother and I did. Perhaps more children would be persuaded to put down the iPhone and go outside if they had the freedom to roam as they please. Limiting them to their backyards and next door neighboor&#x27;s house isn&#x27;t nearly as enticing as &quot;go roam&quot;.
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sanderjdabout 10 years ago
Anybody have the opposite perspective on this?<p>Supposedly, &quot;most people&quot; nowadays think that children should not be allowed to roam, but I only ever hear from people who think that&#x27;s ridiculous. For instance, I just scrolled the comments here and they are literally 100% &quot;I can&#x27;t believe how paranoid we&#x27;ve become&quot;. The conversation I read and hear on this is so one-sided that I really have no sense for what the argument of the other side even is.
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mmlabout 10 years ago
As a parent myself, I find all of this paranoia completely insane. My daughter and a school friend (8 at the time) walked down a half a block to our neighborhood park here (in the scary city!) to play, and her friends&#x27; mother found out and LOST it.<p>It&#x27;s crippling to children, and unbelievably annoying for adults (need to run into the store for a stick of gum? Gotta unpack the kids and bring them with for the 1 minute transaction, or someone will call CPS!).<p>Here in Minnesota, my theory is that Jacob Wetterling&#x27;s family and the &quot;news&quot;-mongers are largely to blame. That sad incident of course, was 25+ years ago now, and is still regularly dredged up to scare the pants off of parents.<p>Feh!<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Jacob_Wetterling" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Jacob_Wetterling</a>
gerbalabout 10 years ago
A paradox of a safer society is that tragic acts like child abductions make more news than they would if they were more commonplace, inflating the perception of the threat.<p>People feel that the threat is greater in fact because it is so much rarer.
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sz4kertoabout 10 years ago
At the age of 10, I commuted to a school that was 15 miles from my home (because it was better than the local elementary school). With two of my classmates, &#x27;alone&#x27;. With train. Everyone considered this completely normal and acceptable.<p>Life is getting safer and more secure as time passes. 2015 is safer than, say, 1995. This whole thing is just sad and crippling for kids (and also for the parents, but it&#x27;s mostly their fault).
brohoolioabout 10 years ago
It&#x27;s interesting how people&#x27;s perceptions have changed over time.<p>My brother and I walked home from school down dirt roads and through mature forests 3 miles. We weren&#x27;t supposed to, but it wasn&#x27;t a big deal.<p>We were 11 and 6. I wonder what would happen today.
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X-Istenceabout 10 years ago
I grew up in The Netherlands (until I was 8) and Switzerland (until I was 12), at age 12 I moved to the US.<p>In The Netherlands me and my friends had quite the range. We were allowed to go down to the soccer field half a mile away, I remember walking to see friends half-way across town. In Switzerland I had a very similar range, and by the time I was 10 I was taking the tram to school (in Basel, other side of the city). I was allowed to roam as much as I pleased so long as I was back home by certain times. I remember spending hours with friends in Basel.<p>When I got to the US I had the same amount of ability to roam around.<p>I am now 27 years old, and I am watching all these parents hover over their kids, and it makes me afraid for society as a whole. All that roaming and being outside and away from the house just made me who I am, not afraid, and gave me a huge sense of self-worth, confidence and self-esteem.
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kzhahouabout 10 years ago
&gt; Police said an officer saw a “homeless subject” who was “eyeing the children.”<p>We should focus on the real problem: nasty filthy homeless mens wanted to steal our precious children!<p>Also, there&#x27;s no possible way the cop just made that up.
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tw04about 10 years ago
They were found in a parking garage where a homeless man was &quot;eyeing the children&quot;?<p>So the police officer got the homeless man&#x27;s information, right? Oh, no, no evidence to back up his story? THAT&#x27;S SHOCKING! Police NEVER lie in order to paint the story they want, EVER!
_deliriumabout 10 years ago
Question on a slightly different setting: in more urban areas with public transport, is it common for kids (past some age) to be allowed to travel places on their own on metros&#x2F;buses? It&#x27;s definitely common here (Copenhagen), and from what I gather also fairly common in other European cities, and in Japan. But I have no idea if it is in NYC, SF, or Chicago. I think it&#x27;s partly normalized here from a certain age because we don&#x27;t have school buses, and instead kids are expected to take the regular transit. So then it&#x27;s not a huge stretch for them to take the same buses to piano lessons, friends&#x27; houses, etc.
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TazeTSchnitzelabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;m 19. Pretty sure I walked to school at 11 here in the UK. Probably earlier actually, I can&#x27;t remember when I started, I just know I definitely went by foot to secondary school (which I started at 11).<p>I&#x27;m not sure I&#x27;d be okay with a six-year-old on their own, but they are accompanied by a ten-year-old. Why can&#x27;t they walk together back home?<p>In Japan, it&#x27;s common and encouraged for young children to walk to school on their own from an early age, or so I have heard.
graycatabout 10 years ago
Let&#x27;s see:<p>(1) Fifth grade, I got a trumpet so rode the city bus downtown, 7 miles, to music lessons.<p>(2) Once also downtown there was a movie I wanted to see so got a little extra cash and went to the movie after the music lesson.<p>(3) About then on radio I heard Beethoven&#x27;s 7th Symphony. So, when the NY Phil came to town, I got a ticket and rode the bus, right, to downtown, 7 miles away.<p>(4) After school, I did what I wanted, went exploring.<p>(5) Soon I got a bicycle so rode it to and from school and otherwise was GONE on my bicycle, commonly rode five miles away, once about 10 miles to the next state.<p>(6) When about 11, visited a friend my age in the country. He had a motorcycle, and we went &quot;two up&quot; for miles and miles.<p><i>Onion</i> solution for the threat of abduction and harassment of children in MD, not entirely in jest: Put the MD police and CPS in diapers in bed overnight, and in the morning have them write 500 times &quot;I will not be a fool&quot;. Have all their travels out of house or office supervised <i>with</i> a leash and a GPS ankle bracelet. Four days a week have them wear an orange jump suit with lettering &quot;I am a fool&quot; and work on their knees with a toothbrush washing the sidewalks. For the next year, have them do 15 minute <i>check ins</i> with actually competent <i>adult supervision</i>.<p>Much simpler solution: Drastically cut the budgets of the police and CPS.<p>Likely actual solution: Have the MD police and CPS lose a big law suit, and have that legal case provide <i>cover</i> for the bloodless bureaucrats that put up with such nonsense to tell the hysterical busy-bodies to <i>cool it</i>.
protomythabout 10 years ago
So, all crime stats are down since the 70&#x27;s when I grew up, we have more children that are out of shape, and children are no longer allowed to play outside or go to the park unattended. Yeah, we are seriously stupid and screwed.<p>I guess the &quot;hey, check out that hill, wonder how far it is to bike there?&quot; mentality in children is long, long gone.
anon4about 10 years ago
This is actually a prime business opportunity -- outdoors child-sitting. You&#x27;d watch over children and escort them home and to pre-approved locations. More liberal and hands-off parents could allow their children to explore as much as they like, as long as they don&#x27;t trespass other property.<p>This should also help to create a lot more job openings.
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powertowerabout 10 years ago
I read that, on average, it would take 700,000 years for a child sitting on a bench in the park (unaccompanied) to get kidnapped.
jeffmouldabout 10 years ago
I grew up less than 10 miles from the area where this is happening. Now granted when I was these kid&#x27;s age it was the mid-70s to early 80s, but still from the time I was in kindergarten I walked to&#x2F;from school about a mile each way every day regardless of whether it was sunny, rainy, snowing, whatever. After school I walked through our community to go to friend&#x27;s houses at the ripe old age of 5 or 6. And on the weekends, kids of all ages were found running around the community from sunrise to sunset. Our parents trusted us and the other members of the community.<p>Yet while our parents were letting us do this just around the corner one of the most notorious abductions in the area took place (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Lyon_sisters" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Lyon_sisters</a>). So you can&#x27;t tell me that there were not predators around at that time.<p>IMO, the difference was that instead of calling the police on kids that seemed lost, most parents in the community would ask the kids if they needed help. I don&#x27;t know where or how the shift occurred, but today it seems we live in a society where everyone wants to pass blame and cares only about themselves.<p>I have two theories why this is occurring. First, the media of today is much different than the past. Today, it seems to me at least, the media has a bad habit of over-sensationalizing every story to pit two sides against one another. This story in particular has created such a havoc in this neighborhood that these kids, and their parents, will never live a &quot;normal&quot; life in that community again. The media has stirred the pot so much that there are now lone individuals that don&#x27;t agree with these parents that are going to target this family every time they see something they don&#x27;t like.<p>My second theory is that we live in a society now where people are afraid of their own shadows at times. When I was about 7 or 8 I was skateboarding down a street a couple blocks from my house. I fell and cut my chin wide open requiring stitches. I started crying and walking home. In that time I must have had 4 or 5 different people come up to me to ask if I was alright with one finally giving me a ride home. I believe if this same situation happened today those 4-5 people would have probably just called 911 instead of trying to get involved and help me. They would have done this out of fear of being sued for not helping better. Or sadly there are those individuals in the community now who will label that person as a predator just for helping.<p>Where I live now is a small town where everyone that lives here knows everyone. Kids of all ages run up and down the street at all hours of the day in the summer. We have a strong local police force that is always actively community policing and knows everyone that lives in the community. On the other hand it is a tourist town and during the summer the population swells drastically (we go from about 300 residents to well over 10,000), yet nothing changes. People look out for each other. More importantly, we also don&#x27;t have any local major media outlets that report regularly on news in our area. And because it is a resort area where there is fear if bad things are reported it will drive tourism away, the media doesn&#x27;t tend to report on all that occurs. Yet nothing bad happens that is out of the ordinary. I mean we have our increased bar fights, DUIs, thefts, and on occasion there has been a murder, but still I can wake up on a nice day and hear kids running around the street playing. No one calls the police on other people&#x27;s kids. Even high school house parties go unreported as long as the kids don&#x27;t violate parking laws or destroy someone else&#x27;s property. And even if they do the party is usually just broken up, people sent on their way, and damages worked out between the parents.
apiabout 10 years ago
Good. Children today are insanely over supervised. You can&#x27;t individuate in the presence of an authority figure.
JohnTHallerabout 10 years ago
&quot;free-range parenting&quot;. Or, in the vernacular of all previous generations, &quot;parenting&quot;.
upofadownabout 10 years ago
How can kids get to school in such an environment? They are not old enough to drive after all...
underwaterabout 10 years ago
They chose to let their kids go out unattended. So obviously they accepted that bad things might happen.<p>And something bad did happen. It seems like the kids learned a valuable lesson - the police may stop and detain you and there is not a whole lot you can do.<p>But now the parents are saying they get to pick and chose which consequences are OK. You can&#x27;t have it both ways.
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ddingusabout 10 years ago
I hope they do.<p>Somehow, a lot of us --maybe a few too many of us, have decided to go both authoritarian and over protective with children.<p>Given how I grew up, this emerging set of norms is disturbing and depressing.<p>One thing I noticed among my peers is those who really got sheltered had a number of common and significant problems later in life, and they all centered on both the rebellion stage, and their exit from &quot;the bubble&quot; they grew up in.<p>Rebelling is common, and for most people, just an ordinary part of coming of age. We get through it, and that&#x27;s that. For the sheltered kids, particularly those who experienced a very authoritarian up bringing, not only did they rebel, but they often over did it!<p>I&#x27;m convinced they overdo it, because the second aspect of this; namely, the sheltering or &quot;bubble&quot; type upbringing really didn&#x27;t socialize them well enough to cope with basic human realities and diversity, nor did it expose them to the world, it&#x27;s real limits and risks, not just the safe ones, or invisible ones they didn&#x27;t see while in their protective bubbles.<p>Many ended up OK, somewhat protective still, but many didn&#x27;t either. And they continue a bad cycle, perhaps trying harder with their own kids.<p>Some of this comes down to wanting to protect the kids and insure they have all the opportunity possible. Noble, but short sighted, given that same lack of general exposure to the world and social dynamics may well inhibit their ability to exploit those hard won opportunities!<p>Another contributor is the desire to mold the kids, in a sense, insuring they carry some values and norms the parents find important for their reasons. But nobody really asked the kids, did they?<p>In fact, a big part of the sheltering is to keep them from asking too!<p>And that&#x27;s a crime really.<p>If some value, religion, norm, whatever really does have merit, should it not stand a basic and rational skepticism? Of course it should.<p>More importantly, does it make sense to structure how people grow up in ways that deny them the critical mind needed to actually make those choices for their reasons?<p>There is a lot wrong with this growing norm.<p>Heck, when I grew up, the rules were really basic. Don&#x27;t get lost, don&#x27;t get hurt, don&#x27;t steal, don&#x27;t fuck with the animals, etc...<p>From there, my peers and I would gather in a meeting place, decide on the adventure for the day and have at it! We quickly learned the world is real, and that real things happen to people in it, and we took care of one another, getting through just fine, despite the fact that on many a weekend some of us could very easily have gotten killed, seriously hurt.<p>We can&#x27;t do everything for our kids. And I submit we really shouldn&#x27;t. They need to explore, learn, do, think, play, build, and if they don&#x27;t, or it&#x27;s too well managed, that managed experience will clash hard with the real world as they enter it.<p>And the vast majority of them will enter it too. Better to do so eyes wide open, experiences true, minds potent.<p>I also think we are going to pay really hard for this folly too. Who cares for us in our old age? Who will be calling the shots some time from now?<p>They can and should file. More parents should.
shit_parade2about 10 years ago
“We must ask ourselves how we reached the point where a parent’s biggest fear is that government officials will literally seize our children off the streets as they walk in our neighborhoods,” he said.<p>I think the quote speaks for itself.