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Tor Exit Node Operator Issued Subpoena

227 pointsby tshtfabout 10 years ago

12 comments

kyledrakeabout 10 years ago
I&#x27;ve received a subpoena from Cook County before regarding a site on Neocities. Related to Tor, actually. Easily the stupidest thing I&#x27;ve ever seen in my life.<p>The person that signed the subpoena was in the news for allegations of corruption, and so was her husband (it&#x27;s called Crook County for a reason). They spelled the name of my company wrong (noahcities.com or something like that), and when I sent a letter to the designated agents requesting they fix it (I control neocities.org, not noahcities, how can I respond to legal requests addressed to a different web site?), they never responded, and the subpoena basically just died.<p>If they had followed up, they would have gotten a tor exit IP address somewhere outside of their jurisdiction (read: another country). I told them this before they filed it, and they told me &quot;That decision is for someone above my pay grade, man&quot;. You can&#x27;t spend 5 minutes to google for Tor because of your &quot;pay grade&quot;?<p>Oh, and they also love to put unlawful (but unfortunately, not illegal) gag orders in their subpoenas. I chose not to waste our lawyer&#x27;s time (and our money) on this piece of trash, so we didn&#x27;t make too big of a deal about it.<p>The take home lesson for me was that crooked regional governments abusing the subpoena system are just as big of a problem as the NSA, if not worse.<p>So, now you know the story behind this commit <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;neocities&#x2F;neocities&#x2F;commit&#x2F;4983a9b24eac00b8d8bfd300a18cdcee0152a271" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;neocities&#x2F;neocities&#x2F;commit&#x2F;4983a9b24eac00b...</a><p>It&#x27;s not good enough for the NSA, but it will prevent these idiots from ever figuring it out. And there&#x27;s no US data retention laws for web sites, so it&#x27;s completely legal.<p>This is textbook Neocities business philosophy. Instead of raising money to hire more lawyers and take the legal risk individually fighting bad John Doe subpoenas, we changed our code to make the data they can actually get worthless to them, so we can just serve them (if they&#x27;re valid) while still protecting our users&#x27; privacy. If we get dragged into court over it, our liability insurance kicks in, we pay a (relatively) small deductible, and then we can use the precedent we set there to throw out any new cases for everybody with this problem, not just us. Way more sustainable.<p>Phase 2 is that I delete the hashes after a few months. I haven&#x27;t gotten to it yet, but it&#x27;s in the ticket tracker.
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sandwormabout 10 years ago
They know about Tor. Five years ago it was magic to most cops and all prosecutors. Today they have been educated, to some extent by people like me. They acknowledge that the exit node is a proxy. In years past they would have tried sending cops to the door to seize the server, or at least make some allegations.<p>That&#x27;s why I do not think that they expect any results here. They expect nothing. They need nothing. They need a non-response to take things to the next step. That step is probably political. They want the bullet point about why criminals are getting away due to VPNs, Tor and other online nasties.
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korethrabout 10 years ago
Okay, reading the subpoena linked in the original article, it appears that Cook County, Illinois is trying to subpoena a company in Romania. IANAL, but I didn&#x27;t think an entity in one country could compel anything of another entity in another country without getting the governments of both involved.<p>So, what was the point of this subpoena? Did a clerk somewhere fail to realize that Romania isn&#x27;t even on the same continent, much less in the same country? Or is there legal mechanisms involved that I&#x27;m not aware of?
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higherpurposeabout 10 years ago
FBI&#x27;s Comey (crypto backdoor promoter) has just visited Romania calling for data retention laws after several such recent laws were declared unconstitutional. The FBI basically gave an ultimatum saying that if such laws aren&#x27;t passed, then it could hurt the US-Romanian relationship. So the US is actively threatening&#x2F;bullying other countries into adopting mass surveillance laws right now - <i>or else!</i>.<p>The ultimatum is also BS, because the US <i>needs</i> Romania more than ever in the Russian-Ukranian conflict (Romania is also one of the countries that has a missile shield against Russia, installed by the US). But I guess that&#x27;s the level of diplomacy US enforces with most weaker countries (bullying).<p>The Romanian NSA sees the US NSA as some sort of mentor and tries to do whatever it gets told to strengthen that relationship. It&#x27;s also very likely the NSA subsidizes&#x2F;gives away its spying tech to countries such as Romania to make spying on its own citizens easier. Surveillance oversight is even weaker than in the US&#x2F;UK.<p>Both Romania and Poland were accused of holding secret CIA prisons as well about a decade ago (likely true).
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bri3dabout 10 years ago
Title would be better as &quot;Exit Node&quot; and based on what I know, this isn&#x27;t altogether uncommon. A relay-only node receiving a subpoena would be novel as far as I know.<p>EDIT: Title was changed, thanks!
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cftabout 10 years ago
Cook County waged a war against Craigslist back in the day: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;deeplinks&#x2F;2009&#x2F;10&#x2F;cook-county-sheriff-loses-case-against-craigslist" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;deeplinks&#x2F;2009&#x2F;10&#x2F;cook-county-sheriff-lo...</a>
mega1tonabout 10 years ago
Probably from this: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;chicagotonight.wttw.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;04&#x2F;09&#x2F;cook-county-computers-hacked" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;chicagotonight.wttw.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;04&#x2F;09&#x2F;cook-county-comput...</a>
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nippooabout 10 years ago
I can&#x27;t stop giggling at the red hand-circled bit in the subpoena.<p>( IP? ) &lt;-- This is the one we need
sporkenfangabout 10 years ago
This is why individuals are generally less likely to operate an exit node than large bodies such as universities.<p>It can happen, has happened, and will likely happen again.
Aissenabout 10 years ago
Isn&#x27;t this an everyday thing for Exit Node operators ? Many ISPs simply forbade Tor because it wasn&#x27;t worth the legal hassle&#x2F;paperwork.
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yownieabout 10 years ago
funny info request from the subpeona IP -&gt; 176.126.252.11 -&gt; 12.218.239.38
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peterkellyabout 10 years ago
What next? Everyone who operates an IP router on the internet starts getting subpoenas?
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