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Paul Graham On Two Kinds of Programmers and Painters

75 pointsby ramsover 15 years ago

11 comments

gjm11over 15 years ago
Maciej Ceglowski, who is posting in this thread but evidently too modest to blow his own trumpet, wrote what seems like the definitive response to Paul Graham On Painting back in 2005: <a href="http://www.idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.idlewords.com/2005/04/dabblers_and_blowhards.htm</a> .
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EAMillerover 15 years ago
"Cézanne could not draw, he makes the same drawing mistakes that every one makes in introductory drawing classes." This is not the case. Cézanne could draw exceedingly well. Drawing != photographic representation.
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dgallagherover 15 years ago
<i>He was terribly frustrated he was like this guy who had all kinds of ideas, but he couldn't articulate them with his hand.</i><p>I've experienced this. Since several years ago I've had tons of idea's for startups I'd like to create. Problem was, I had a business/finance/network engineer background and had no way of actually building anything. It's extremely difficult being stuck like that. Ambitions are polluted by your own limitations.<p>Three years ago a few close friends and I decided to develop a video game using XNA for Xbox 360. We were three programmers, two artists, and myself who handled game design (not a coder). It was a simple game. Basically, you were a guy on a board with a bat and would melee with others, trying to knock them off the board. It was sorta like Nintendo Hockey crossed with Super Smash Brothers in a top-down 2D view. Long story short, the programmers lost interest and the project died after two years of part-time work. The two artists and I were more or less helpless in trying to finish the game, so we had to abandon it.<p>This was a year ago and I was frustrated. I came to the realization that in order to build something, you need to have the idea, and you need to have a means of building it. So I ordered a bunch of books and started to teach myself how to program. Thats enabled me to work on a new startup.<p>Now I can see things much clearer having the ability to write code. That frustration of not being able to build your ideas, or having their destiny out of your control, is completely gone. It's empowering. This quote really rings true to me now:<p><i>The best programmers are the ones that combine in one head both the ability to translate ideas into code and having the ideas. Just like the best artists have both the ability ... (have) a great hand.</i>
kingkawnover 15 years ago
cmon pg, your interpretation of Cezanne is like Caravaggio talkin about Lisp.
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chipsyover 15 years ago
I think it's important to recognize that the creativity/implementation distinction isn't going to be universal across all your skills, even within something as seemingly specific as programming or drawing. Maybe you have an easy time reasoning about mutable data structures, or maybe you are particularly able at capturing light and shadow. If you can recognize which things are strengths and deliberately extend <i>all</i> of the things you are good at into an overall creative vision - a cumulation of your ability that takes those strengths to the "next level" - then you'll go a lot farther than you will just trying to shore up the weaknesses.<p>(That said, you can become good at just about anything with carefully cultivated passion and a dash of smarts.)
andrewcookeover 15 years ago
seems to me that, if this makes any sense, the interesting question is: why can't you have both?<p>given that selection for "great art" is over a large number of people, why can't you find someone that is gifted in both areas?<p>perhaps one somehow counteracts the other (for example, you are praised for "mechanical skills" and so never learn "abstract thinking")?<p>or perhaps the market values the combination of "poor mechanical skills" with "great abstract skills" because it places the latter in strong relief?<p>or perhaps you do get people who are both (gerhard richter is the best example i can think of), but that's not enough to meet demand? (or meet fashion?)<p>or perhaps the numbers just don't work out - the population is just large enough for one or the other, but not both?<p>or, finally, perhaps the whole basis of the post is, in fact, false?
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Kirbyover 15 years ago
Of course, in reality, most people aren't exactly these two extremes, great implementer and great innovator. Everyone has both traits in different amounts, and if you have a functioning team, they can be split up unevenly.<p>In this way of looking at things, I'll freely admit to being more of an implementer. If someone asks for what they want, I'll do my best to make the software do it in a way that's efficient and delights the user.<p>Given vague instructions, I'll do my best, but with mixed results.<p>But when I team up with someone who always has new ideas - I can actually sort through them, figure out which ones will work, which ones will meet the goals, and synthesize them into great product. Most people can't do that with their own ideas.<p>I think the original quote - and it's short, not a full essay, so this criticism is mildly unfair - elevates the innovator too much over the implementer. When in reality, you win when you have both, that know their own strengths and limitations, and are grateful for the other. I produce better work when I pair up with an innovator, and so does he or she. And the two of us will dominate over a dual-innovator team.<p>Also, realize implicitly in everything Paul Graham says, you can add the words, "For a startup technology company." That's what he knows, that's what he values. There's a lot of work out there that needs implementers, and innovators would be frustrated, unsuccessful, and miserable at. Don't feel threatened if you're not Paul Graham's Ideal Entrepreneur/Programmer. I'm not. I'll never be extremely rich, most likely, but I'm happy, good at my job, valued by my company. I say this because opinions like this caused me a _lot_ of self doubt in my early twenties, and they turned out to not be the accurate predictor of DOOM that I feared. If you're smart, and willing to do a good day's work, success is out there - not at a company run by someone like Graham, but he wouldn't have success at a company for you either.
tripngrooveover 15 years ago
I posit the transcriber interpreted Cézanne phonetically.
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garnet7over 15 years ago
&#62; When you put the stuff on the wall in a room full of other paintings, it looks like there's a spotlight shining on his paintings and other ones have been sprayed with a light coating of mud.<p>What is this due to? Cezanne's skill with color? Or something else?
ThinkWriteMuteover 15 years ago
What in the world is wrong with his style sheet? Why is the entire post emphasized?!
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luciferover 15 years ago
If only hacker sketches on a napkin looked like this:<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/y9b5n2d" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/y9b5n2d</a>