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Ask HN: Why is Flash so vulnerable?

17 pointsby zatkinalmost 10 years ago

7 comments

patio11almost 10 years ago
It&#x27;s a ginormous codebase in a non-memory-managed language which was written back before the industry got serious religion on security. It is free, has a very wide install base, and in common deployments will execute code provided by any host on the Internet. This makes it a <i>very</i> attractive target.<p>Applications of similar complexity&#x2F;surface area can swallow hundreds of millions of dollars of security research. Flash has not received this. (Windows&#x2F;Office&#x2F;etc have.)
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ruraljuroralmost 10 years ago
I was listening to the Security Now podcast this morning. On episode 514, <i>Tor&#x27;s Astoria Client</i> about the first 30 minutes of the podcast is spent going into extreme detail about how a recent Flash vulnerability was exploited.<p>I can&#x27;t link to a page for the episode.<p>Here is the episode list: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.grc.com&#x2F;securitynow.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.grc.com&#x2F;securitynow.htm</a><p>The episode: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.grc.com&#x2F;sn&#x2F;sn-514.mp3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.grc.com&#x2F;sn&#x2F;sn-514.mp3</a><p>The transcript: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.grc.com&#x2F;sn&#x2F;sn-514.txt" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.grc.com&#x2F;sn&#x2F;sn-514.txt</a><p>I think most of the content is sourced (and credited) to this post from FireEye: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fireeye.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;threat-research&#x2F;2015&#x2F;06&#x2F;operation-clandestine-wolf-adobe-flash-zero-day.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.fireeye.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;threat-research&#x2F;2015&#x2F;06&#x2F;operati...</a>
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bmm6oalmost 10 years ago
To me, it seems like a combination of several factors: * None of Adobe&#x27;s products are particularly stable or secure - not even the ones they charge a lot of money for. * Flash&#x27;s wide install base and the fact that it&#x27;s easy to invoke on a target (via the browser) machine makes it an inviting target for hackers. * Flash is a fairly complex piece of software - after all, it&#x27;s a language runtime. * They don&#x27;t charge for the Flash runtime, so there&#x27;s no direct return on investment for making it more secure. The main losses are reputational and until there&#x27;s a mass revolt (which might be coming) it&#x27;s hard to quantify any financial losses.
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uchoalmost 10 years ago
I might be stating the obvious - it contains language interpreter. It is hard stuff to do and from the beginning the focus was on speed not the security. Now it is a high value target and it was probably checked for bugs more than any software in history.
nudpiedoalmost 10 years ago
That is how big organizations work:<p>1. they feel flash is slowly dying or that it could be potentially be sold<p>2. No more investment in order to get the biggest money from the already existing market of customers, a future sale, or force migration to other products of the same company.<p>They do not understand that the image of the technology and the community is damaged; and that is a pity when I think in the haxe project and the open source community around it.<p>Now even an open source alternative to the binary flash would not safe the damaged image and HTML5 canvas is predestinated to overtake it.<p>EDIT: I think adobe lost a big chance in the market with flash by being too much closed and not understanding modern development&#x2F;online communities.
frozenportalmost 10 years ago
I blame Adobe&#x27;s culture, their culture discourages good programming and their other projects suffer the same problems. For example, bread winners like CS&#x2F;CC frequently crash, I have a collection of Indesign files that will crash on demand but my concerns have yet to be remedied after 4 years. Internally, they rely on a custom widgeting kit designed to match the functionality found in their pre-OSX mac software (over 20 years!). Build times are said to be several hours.<p>Adobe is simply not competent at writing modern software, don&#x27;t forget that if you cant get a flash zero-day you might get one for Adobe Reader!
forgottenacc56almost 10 years ago
A company that employees cheap programmers.